Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

[faire_jour]

I have a few studetns with CIs who are able to code switch both languages fine.

I dont like putting any kids for any risks for language delays during their early years. That's my whole point.

I am seeing the failures cuz the parents want oral-only programs for them and when it isnt working, they are referred to our program with ASL as a last resort.

I thought I have explained that several times? As for coloring my view? I have no idea what you are talking about. I never said anything negative about kids getting implanted so what are u trying to get at?

You always talk about oral students being delayed. That's because you only see the ones who are. You don't work with the kids who are succeeding. I think that is one of the reasons you believe that oral (CI) kids aren't able to function, because everyday, all day, you see only the ones who aren't.

 

[shel90]

You always talk about oral students being delayed. That's because you only see the ones who are. You don't work with the kids who are succeeding. I think that is one of the reasons you believe that oral (CI) kids aren't able to function, because everyday, all day, you see only the ones who aren't.

Is that ok for those kids who dont succeed? Where are their rights to full access to education?

I wont ignore them. I am gonna fight for every deaf child's right to full access to language, communciation and education.

 

[faire_jour]

Ok good for them. I wasnt talking about speech.l...I was talking about both speech and literacy skills in English. Many deaf people I know dont have intelligible speech skills but have high literacy skills in English sooo...if speech is your focus, then were are on different paths of thinking.

I use speech to mean both receptive and expressive spoken language skills. In AVT understanding always comes before using, therefore if a child is speaking fluently they are also accessing spoken language. They also being exposed to fluent language models at school and at home. And as we all know, a strong L1 language leads to literacy. Imagine how much easier it is when your are actually learing to read the same language.

 

[faire_jour]

Is that ok for those kids who dont succeed? Where are their rights to full access to education?

I wont ignore them. I am gonna fight for every deaf child's right to full access to language, communciation and education.

I didn't say they should be ignored, I merely stated that I think that your (as does everyones) experiences affect the way you view things.

 

[shel90]

I didn't say they should be ignored, I merely stated that I think that your (as does everyones) experiences affect the way you view things.

Well, as a teacher, these children are my passion and I would do anything to get them the same rights as hearing kids do. If that makes me unpopular around here, oh well.

 

[faire_jour]

Well, as a teacher, these children are my passion and I would do anything to get them the same rights as hearing kids do. If that makes me unpopular around here, oh well.

This is the last place in the world it would make you unpopular.

 

[shel90]

I use speech to mean both receptive and expressive spoken language skills. In AVT understanding always comes before using, therefore if a child is speaking fluently they are also accessing spoken language. They also being exposed to fluent language models at school and at home. And as we all know, a strong L1 language leads to literacy. Imagine how much easier it is when your are actually learing to read the same language.

What happens if the CI breaks, no money to replace them...do children with CIs have 100% access to communication, language and etc in large group settings? One on one, yea, I can undy but large group settings?

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Well, as a teacher, these children are my passion and I would do anything to get them the same rights as hearing kids do. If that makes me unpopular around here, oh well.

Right, Shel. It's these students that we need to worry about. If the BiBi approach will help those students that the other programs failed, then bravo!

 

[web730]

You always talk about oral students being delayed. That's because you only see the ones who are. You don't work with the kids who are succeeding. I think that is one of the reasons you believe that oral (CI) kids aren't able to function, because everyday, all day, you see only the ones who aren't.

No. Shel90 actually had deaf students (non CIs and non oralists) that experienced with theirs being delayed, too. Those types (most of them) were delayed due to lack of their early interventions because their parents didn't learn/use ASL when they were babies or toddlers.

Now you and she debated over oralists including some CIs... she isn't only one who experienced on what she said... my friends (deaf ed teachers) has seen them, too just what she explained as a matter of fact.

 

[shel90]

No. Shel90 actually had deaf students (non CIs and non oralists) that experienced with theirs being delayed, too. Those types (most of them) were delayed due to lack of their early interventions because their parents didn't learn/use ASL when they were babies or toddlers.

Now you and she debated over oralists including some CIs... she isn't only one who experienced on what she said... my friends (deaf ed teachers) has seen them, too just what she explained as a matter of fact.

Thanks..many of my coworkers both deaf and hearing see the same thing in their experiences too. *shrug*

 

[shel90]

Right, Shel. It's these students that we need to worry about. If the BiBi approach will help those students that the other programs failed, then bravo!

Yea...people forget that even with good speech skills, it doesnt automatically leads to high literacy skills. If so, then no hearing people would have lousy literacy skills.

Speech is a mode of communciation.

English is a language..one can access to it either auditorally or in print.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Yea...people forget that even with good speech skills, it doesnt automatically leads to high literacy skills. If so, then no hearing people would have lousy literacy skills.

Speech is a mode of communciation.

English is a language..one can access to it either auditorally or in print.

Exactly!

 

[faire_jour]

No. Shel90 actually had deaf students (non CIs and non oralists) that experienced with theirs being delayed, too. Those types (most of them) were delayed due to lack of their early interventions because their parents didn't learn/use ASL when they were babies or toddlers.

Now you and she debated over oralists including some CIs... she isn't only one who experienced on what she said... my friends (deaf ed teachers) has seen them, too just what she explained as a matter of fact.

I know that there will always be kids who are delayed, but I wonder if people who work with the delayed ones have a skewed view of the entire group. For example, because my daughter is deaf, I interact with lots of other deaf kids. Sometimes I forget that it is exceeding rare, less than 1 in 1000. Because it is what I see veryday, all day, it is what I think is normal.

 

[faire_jour]

Yea...people forget that even with good speech skills, it doesnt automatically leads to high literacy skills. If so, then no hearing people would have lousy literacy skills.

Speech is a mode of communciation.

English is a language..one can access to it either auditorally or in print.

But a child can not access or understand print from day one. Understanding of English and phoneomic awareness leads to an easier time learning to read.

 

[Cheri]

Well, u kept saying that everyone has the right to their opinion so which one is it? U are confusing me and that is not an attack but honestly, I am really confused because u got mad at me a while ago about people not having the right to an opinion because they are not teachers...fine, I will respect that and now u are saying the opposite?

Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with anyone sharing their opinions. If you read my other post, You'll get the understanding of what I meant by what I said.

 

[shel90]

I know that there will always be kids who are delayed, but I wonder if people who work with the delayed ones have a skewed view of the entire group. For example, because my daughter is deaf, I interact with lots of other deaf kids. Sometimes I forget that it is exceeding rare, less than 1 in 1000. Because it is what I see everyday, all day, it is what I think is normal.

I have over 500 acquantainces in the Deaf community and been in contact with maybe over a thousand or even 2 thousand...I havent met one who believes in the oral-only philosophy or doesnt believe in speech as being the #1 priority in education. All of them feel strongly as I do...literacy skills comes first. Without them, like someone else here on AD said...life will be full of struggles without literacy skills whether one has good speech skills or not.

Most of them do see the value of having speech skills,...I am not disputing that but since I teach in all content areas, I am more concerned with abstract, problem solving, critical, and etc thinking skills.

 

[shel90]

But a child can not access or understand print from day one. Understanding of English and phoneomic awareness leads to an easier time learning to read.

If so..then why were deaf children from deaf families have an easier time learning to read?

 

[shel90]

Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with anyone sharing their opinions. If you read my other post, You'll get the understanding of what I meant by what I said.

I must be missing something somewhere. No biggie..I am not gonna dwell on it.

 

[faire_jour]

If so..then why were deaf children from deaf families have an easier time learning to read?

Only when compared to children without a strong L1.

 

[shel90]

Only when compared to children without a strong L1.

I really do not understand that statement.