Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just one more... Then you can put a new one on the fridge...
brainfarts.jpg

OK... back to the topic you all.. fun's over.!:D

Already printed that one off from a thread a while back! :giggle: But thanks, anyway.
 
You do realize, don't you, that you have just supported my point that CS falls under the umbrella of TC? Thank you.:ty:

It supported just exactly what I said. ;)
 
It supported just exactly what I said. ;)

NCued Speech is compatible with oral/aural, bilingual / multi-lingual, and total communication philosophies, enhancing instruction and communication in each mode.

Cued Speech is compatible with both oral/aural approaches (amplifying any residual hearing or using a cochlear implant) and with the use of sign language

For individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing, Cued Speech is compatible with auditory, oral, bilingual, and total communication philosophies.

No, dear, it supports that CS falls under the umbrella of TC. The above statement comes directly from the links you provided. Since TC uses a combination of speech, sign, amplification, and visual cues, CS falls directly into the ecelectic approach known as TC.
 
No thanks, I'm not going to waste my time for someone who is unwilling to back up her/his statements.

Who might that be? The support is there. Just because you are unwilling to go back and read it doesn't mean at all that the statements have not been "backed up". It only means that you are refusing to look at the evidence provided.
 
NCued Speech is compatible with oral/aural, bilingual / multi-lingual, and total communication philosophies, enhancing instruction and communication in each mode.

Cued Speech is compatible with both oral/aural approaches (amplifying any residual hearing or using a cochlear implant) and with the use of sign language

For individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing, Cued Speech is compatible with auditory, oral, bilingual, and total communication philosophies.

No, dear, it supports that CS falls under the umbrella of TC. The above statement comes directly from the links you provided. Since TC uses a combination of speech, sign, amplification, and visual cues, CS falls directly into the ecelectic approach known as TC.

Cued speech is more a visual communication system and their signing approach is different than in a TC setting, they use 8 handshapes to cued. TC doesn't, they use the signing system of SEE or ASL. And they do not use interpreters in cued speech setting, TC does. So therefore it does not falls under the umbrella of TC only. :ty: For now on, read the entire post don't take words out of context.
 
Cued speech is more a visual communication system and their signing approach is different than in a TC setting, they use 8 handshapes to cued. TC doesn't, they use the signing system of SEE or ASL. And they do not use interpreters in cued speech setting, TC does. So therefore it does not falls under the umbrella of TC only. :ty:

Please see the statement and link above. Any other means would include CS.

CS is not a signing approach at all.

TC rarely uses ASL. The most frequently used system is Sim-Com, which does not, in practice, fall into the categorization for SEE or ASL, but into the continuum of a CASE system.

The research supporting this is available in earlier posts in this thead.

Therefore, it does fall under the umbrella of TC, and your own links substantiate that. Perhaps you should go back and read them again.
 
Please see the statement and link above. Any other means would include CS.

CS is not a signing approach at all.

TC rarely uses ASL. The most frequently used system is Sim-Com, which does not, in practice, fall into the categorization for SEE or ASL, but into the continuum of a CASE system.

The research supporting this is available in earlier posts in this thead.

Therefore, it does fall under the umbrella of TC, and your own links substantiate that. Perhaps you should go back and read them again.

shakeshead.gif
I refused to be sucked in this with you. Believe what you want, I don't care. I cited my source and I'm done.
 
shakeshead.gif
I refused to be sucked in this with you. Believe what you want, I don't care. I cited my source and I'm done.

And I appreciate the links you provided, as they support the fact that CS falls under the TC umbrella. :ty:
 
Actually, I think I understand some of the points some are trying to make here. This is along the lines of what I was saying earlier (whether in this thread or another, I don't recall.) I remember reading somewhere that Minnesota has a population of 100,000 deaf and hard-of-hearing people, but I am certain a HUGE majority of those consist of the elderly who have become hard-of-hearing due to age. I think that stands true for all states. Having said that, I'm aware there are thousands who are truly deaf, and with the metro area as large as it is here, there are many, many hundreds of us here in the metro area. It isn't possible that I know all of them. But, over the years, by interaction via school, other school friends, deaf clubs, deaf events, deaf sports, and so on, I've met quite a few. In the hundreds, literally. And I don't see the low literacy rates that have been mentioned. Too many people are just like me, where we attended special preschools to learn sign and speech, then went on to our local schools in a mainstreamed program, and the huge majority of us have turned out just fine, just like me. In contrast, in any given year, there's only some 50 deaf students at MSD (the school for the deaf). So that's all I've been saying -- I don't understand where the statistics are coming from, because I do not see it here in Minnesota. (And again, I'm acknowledging there's MANY deaf people I have yet to meet, so maybe some of those are what comprises the low literacy rates, but ... ) It does make me wonder if the sampling of a deaf population in education for statistical purposes is flawed and thereby creating lower statistical rates than is realistic.
 
Actually, I think I understand some of the points some are trying to make here. This is along the lines of what I was saying earlier (whether in this thread or another, I don't recall.) I remember reading somewhere that Minnesota has a population of 100,000 deaf and hard-of-hearing people, but I am certain a HUGE majority of those consist of the elderly who have become hard-of-hearing due to age. I think that stands true for all states. Having said that, I'm aware there are thousands who are truly deaf, and with the metro area as large as it is here, there are many, many hundreds of us here in the metro area. It isn't possible that I know all of them. But, over the years, by interaction via school, other school friends, deaf clubs, deaf events, deaf sports, and so on, I've met quite a few. In the hundreds, literally. And I don't see the low literacy rates that have been mentioned. Too many people are just like me, where we attended special preschools to learn sign and speech, then went on to our local schools in a mainstreamed program, and the huge majority of us have turned out just fine, just like me. In contrast, in any given year, there's only some 50 deaf students at MSD (the school for the deaf). So that's all I've been saying -- I don't understand where the statistics are coming from, because I do not see it here in Minnesota. (And again, I'm acknowledging there's MANY deaf people I have yet to meet, so maybe some of those are what comprises the low literacy rates, but ... ) It does make me wonder if the sampling of a deaf population in education for statistical purposes is flawed and thereby creating lower statistical rates than is realistic.

If you will refer back to posts #662 and #693, you will find explanations regarding the population used to arrive at the data for statistical analysis, as well as methods used for language assessment.

If you use the link I provided, it will take you to the documents containing the detailed information of population, statistical analysis, and standardization and norming of the tests.
 
Who might that be? The support is there. Just because you are unwilling to go back and read it doesn't mean at all that the statements have not been "backed up". It only means that you are refusing to look at the evidence provided.

Once again, I've read posts 459 and 462 it still does not stated anything about "TC program had fail the majority of deaf children" and also, these statments were made in the 90's, now where are the currently sources for TC?


Also, Rockdrummer had pointed something out earlier in this thread which I totally agree with.

Rockdrummer said:
“There are options—plural. There is no one option in the educational world of a deaf child. Don’t let anyone try to sell you on any one option while disregarding the others. All kids are different and have different needs. No one option can meet the needs of all deaf children. “
( 461)
 
lalalalaaaaaa lalalaaaaaa :fruit:
 
If you will refer back to posts #662 and #693, you will find explanations regarding the population used to arrive at the data for statistical analysis, as well as methods used for language assessment.

If you use the link I provided, it will take you to the documents containing the detailed information of population, statistical analysis, and standardization and norming of the tests.

As far as post 662 goes:

I'm not disputing statistics, even if it sounds like I am. What I have been saying (like in my last post about the sampling being flawed) -- who among the deaf people are being chosen for sampling? Are the Reading Comprehension test scores at 4th grade reading level being based off students who live in the middle of nowhere and have limited access to resources, or perhaps from the deaf schools, or other scenarios? (Mind you, I'm not knocking the deaf schools - some states have great deaf school programs, others don't.) So, for example, if the sampling included a large majority of students across the metro area where I live in -- in Minnesota -- I don't think a 4th grade reading level would have been the norm. I'm only stating what I've seen from personal experience. And, while this isn't an adequate example, but an example nonetheless, for the same Reading Comprehension scoring test that was mentioned -- in my high school alone, there were only 3 of us who were deaf. All of us did well in high school and graduated with reasonably high rankings among the rest of the class. If you were to sample just the 3 of us, you would have found a median Reading Score that was extremely significantly higher than 4th grade. When I took a Reading Comprehension test as part of my orientation in college, the best possible score was 100. I scored a 96. (For the math test, the best possible score was 12. I scored 11.8. I know the math isn't significant here but trying to give an illustrative example.) And, the other 2 deaf students in my class were right behind me -- even if they didn't score 96 or better, they likely scored extremely close. This doesn't put us at a 4th grade reading level. So, therefore, if you took us 3, for example, the median would have been significantly higher. That's what I'm wondering -- if the certain deaf population being sampled isn't indicative of a deaf population as a whole, but rather a select number of students who did not score well, thereby bringing the statistics down to an unrealistic level.
 
Once again, I've read posts 459 and 462 it still does not stated anything about "TC program had fail the majority of deaf children" and also, these statments were made in the 90's, now where are the currently sources for TC?


Also, Rockdrummer had pointed something out earlier in this thread which I totally agree with.

( 461)

Then perhaps you should read more than 2 posts. There is much research listed in many posts that support that conclusion. BTW, a statement does not have to be made verbatim for that conclusion to be reached. If you are looking for a verbatim statement, you are failing to read the information and process it to reach a conclusion.
 
As far as post 662 goes:

I'm not disputing statistics, even if it sounds like I am. What I have been saying (like in my last post about the sampling being flawed) -- who among the deaf people are being chosen for sampling? Are the Reading Comprehension test scores at 4th grade reading level being based off students who live in the middle of nowhere and have limited access to resources, or perhaps from the deaf schools, or other scenarios? (Mind you, I'm not knocking the deaf schools - some states have great deaf school programs, others don't.) So, for example, if the sampling included a large majority of students across the metro area where I live in -- in Minnesota -- I don't think a 4th grade reading level would have been the norm. I'm only stating what I've seen from personal experience. And, while this isn't an adequate example, but an example nonetheless, for the same Reading Comprehension scoring test that was mentioned -- in my high school alone, there were only 3 of us who were deaf. All of us did well in high school and graduated with reasonably high rankings among the rest of the class. If you were to sample just the 3 of us, you would have found a median Reading Score that was extremely significantly higher than 4th grade. When I took a Reading Comprehension test as part of my orientation in college, the best possible score was 100. I scored a 96. (For the math test, the best possible score was 12. I scored 11.8. I know the math isn't significant here but trying to give an illustrative example.) And, the other 2 deaf students in my class were right behind me -- even if they didn't score 96 or better, they likely scored extremely close. This doesn't put us at a 4th grade reading level. So, therefore, if you took us 3, for example, the median would have been significantly higher. That's what I'm wondering -- if the certain deaf population being sampled isn't indicative of a deaf population as a whole, but rather a select number of students who did not score well, thereby bringing the statistics down to an unrealistic level.

I realize that. I was just trying to answer your question without repeating posts. But if you will click on the link, and then use the links on that page to access the actual documents, the actual documents will detail the selection process used for the population selection.

Three students is not sufficient a number to reach a generalized conclusion or median. That is why the study I provided links to uses a greater number, and varied demographics as well to come up with a representative sample. Does that mean that there will not be a few students who do not fall into that finding? Of course not. There will always be outliers. That is why we use statistical analysis to come up with a mean for the whole population. When you figure in those students that fall above, and those students that fall below, the mean is 4th grade.
 
I better get some aspirins :|
 
That's what I'm wondering -- if the certain deaf population being sampled isn't indicative of a deaf population as a whole, but rather a select number of students who did not score well, thereby bringing the statistics down to an unrealistic level.

You bring up a very good point. That's why when I read about research, I read about their methodology (most, if not all, research articles who actually does the statistic sampling gives their methodology) and there are times where I don't feel that their methodology is good enough (I read one where they took 20 deaf kids from ONE place in order to compare them to hearing people). That's why I take statistics with a grain of salt. I am a perfect example for someone who is most likely will NOT appear to be a part of a statistic because I was not part of anything involved with deaf programs. The only way to get me is if someone used audiologists or speech therapists as part of their statistic methods. I am trying to balance what I hear from AD and what statistics tell me. Its tough!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top