Suicide Girls

Please keep in mind, nobody give a darn about people who killed themselves. :( Nobody will care. Just for your info. =/ EDIT: OK - I mean, some people did say that before. So not everyone will care or concern about the suicide.
You have got to be kidding.

I've seen the devastation that suicide leaves behind. I don't know how you can say that "nobody give a darn about people who killed themselves."

You are wrong.
 
It look like the sociality slowly to accept that... I think people who consider to kill themselves really, really need a help..... I guess people can kill themselves is normal and totally acceptable. =/
Suicide is NOT NORMAL. It is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

You are right that people who consider suicide really need help. They don't need to be encouraged to think that suicide is "normal."
 
So does their moving away, changing jobs, marrying someone who hates your guts -- Changing cultures, clubs, beliefs, groups, or sexual preference: Yes even gaining or losing weight. Addictions: alcohol, drugs, gambling, to me are simply slow suicide: People who don't want to live life: And the impact on friends, family, and even strangers is both often worse and far more prolonged than the suicide who simply gets it over with.
Apparently you and I have totally different outlooks on the value of human life. The fact that you can compare changing a club with killing oneself makes that clear.

The one element you leave out is the permanence of suicide. There is no recovery, turning back, restitution, or escape from death. Suicide leaves behind guilt, despair, loneliness, unanswered questions, and all sorts of pain. It is a permanent selfish solution for temporary problems and situations.

Troubled people don't need encouragement to commit suicide. They need encouragement to live beyond their troubles.

At what point do you tell them, "This is not your life to live. What you do impacts me, therefore I have a say in what you do with your life."?
When their actions harm others.

And at what point do you tell them, "You choices are yours. You have to live with them and so do I."?
Um, suicides don't live with their choices; that's the whole point. They think they don't have any consequences "to live with" after they die.

I remember an adult woman with children of her own: Her brother called her and informed her their parents were getting divorced. He said, "You have to do something. They will listen to you." The brother had left home and was in college.

She told them if they loved her they would stay together because if they divorced she would kill herself.
So if the woman did kill herself because of the parents' divorce, that proves that suicide is selfish and not considerate of other people. Exactly my point.

None of this is about love -- It is about control. Who gets to control whom, how, and why. Suicide is also about control. So are many other negative things in our lives.
If you agree that suicide is about control and is negative, then you should also agree that it shouldn't be encouraged.

Perhaps if we spent more time loving each other and less time trying to control each other there might be fewer negative things in our lives and fewer reasons for them.
Fewer reasons to commit suicide and more positive reasons to live? I support that.

Too bad, but I don't tell other people what to do with their lives and I don't allow them to tell me what to do with mine.
We do have to "tel"l people what to do sometimes in order that they not harm others.
 
You called them culture groups. That's the difference. They aren't all culture groups. NRA and Greenpeace are political action and lobbiest groups.

If you're trying to explain what SG is, calling it a "group" isn't informative at all. The KKK and the Red Cross are both "groups" but that explains nothing.

I labeled the Suicide Girls as a group with a culture of its own. It shouldn't be wrong since they are one.

I did not name the NRA, greenpeace, national model association, those I later had clarified as a group of their own.
Whether what happens in those groups are considered culture or not is open to interpretation. I doubt anyone would disagree that any band of two or more people together with similarities should be called a 'group'.

I simply did not delve into semantics on the differences between the groups because I wasn't arguing nor trying to debate with anyone, rather help people understand what it is about.
All I did was clarify for anyone reading that they [Suicide Girls] are a known 'group', and that they are not random individuals (who suicide, or something to that extent).


n. Dictionary: group

1. An assemblage of persons or objects gathered or located together; an aggregation: a group of dinner guests; a group of buildings near the road.
2. Two or more figures that make up a unit or design, as in sculpture.
3. A number of individuals or things considered together because of similarities: a small group of supporters across the country.
4. Linguistics. A category of related languages that is less inclusive than a family.
5.
1. A military unit consisting of two or more battalions and a headquarters.
2. A unit of two or more squadrons in the U.S. Air Force, smaller than a wing.
6. A class or collection of related objects or entities, as:
1. Two or more atoms behaving or regarded as behaving as a single chemical unit.
2. A column in the periodic table of the elements.
3. A stratigraphic unit, especially a unit consisting of two or more formations deposited during a single geologic era.
 
I labeled the Suicide Girls as a group with a culture of its own. It shouldn't be wrong since they are one.
I'm not arguing about "groups." :)

"It's just a newer culture group. Nothing more than NRA, greenpeace, national model association, stuff like that...."

I'm just saying that making a comparison of them to the NRA, Greenpeace, and the National Model Association as "culture" groups doesn't make sense.

Culture: the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

When you say, "... People have their own similar interests together etc." it doesn't help explain what SuicideGirls.com is unless you explain what those "similar interests" are. If one had to go by your definition and the "Suicide" part of their name, one might assume that their "common interest" was suicide. It didn't explain that their interests were tattoos, goth, or exhibitionism.

Anyway, I don't depend on posters' definitions. When I first read the question I looked them up on the web, so I knew who they were.
 
Suicide is about control. I never really understood why people commit suicide until I came across a few poems that satirized suicidal intentions; before I thought it was a callous and selfish way, but now I understand that it's altogether different ball-game.

I am not worried about the people who say they will commit suicide anymore now that I understand most of it is a mind-game; haven't known anyone that actually follow through with what they say. I am more worried about the ones that hide their depression, since I've lost a few people to that.
 
Suicide is about control. I never really understood why people commit suicide until I came across a few poems that satirized suicidal intentions; before I thought it was a callous and selfish way, but now I understand that it's altogether different ball-game.

I am not worried about the people who say they will commit suicide anymore now that I understand most of it is a mind-game; haven't known anyone that actually follow through with what they say. I am more worried about the ones that hide their depression, since I've lost a few people to that.

I know of one person who has made multiple threats to kill themselves, but they didn't go through with it.

I also know of three people who did go through with it, but did not make any indication of it beforehand (with the exception of one, who told someone he planned to do it, and that person didn't speak up).

Whoever said nobody cares was wrong. I cared about every one of those people who killed themselves.
 
I'm not arguing about "groups." :)

I'm just saying that making a comparison of them to the NRA, Greenpeace, and the National Model Association as "culture" groups doesn't make sense.

Culture: the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.

When you say, "... People have their own similar interests together etc." it doesn't help explain what SuicideGirls.com is unless you explain what those "similar interests" are. If one had to go by your definition and the "Suicide" part of their name, one might assume that their "common interest" was suicide. It didn't explain that their interests were tattoos, goth, or exhibitionism.




Ah, I see what is your qualm with my post now. I am not sure where your definition of culture was retrieved, but it seems to be relating to an aging explanation.

Firstly, I never compared them to the level of those groups. Stated it multiple times thereafter (see first page of replies). I said they were all bound by a common broad definition known as a group.



The definition of culture is not just limited to "Culture: the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.", it is only a fraction of present day definitions.

Today they are much vast and complex. Going into sociology will explain it.

For example, see reference at Princeton's WordNet.

* S: (n) culture, civilization, civilisation (a particular society at a particular time and place) "early Mayan civilization"
* S: (n) culture (the tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group)
* S: (n) acculturation, culture (all the knowledge and values shared by a society)
* S: (n) culture ((biology) the growing of microorganisms in a nutrient medium (such as gelatin or agar)) "the culture of cells in a Petri dish"
* S: (n) polish, refinement, culture, cultivation, finish (a highly developed state of perfection; having a flawless or impeccable quality) "they performed with great polish"; "I admired the exquisite refinement of his prose"; "almost an inspiration which gives to all work that finish which is almost art"--Joseph Conrad
* S: (n) culture (the attitudes and behavior that are characteristic of a particular social group or organization) "the developing drug culture"; "the reason that the agency is doomed to inaction has something to do with the FBI culture"
* S: (n) culture (the raising of plants or animals) "the culture of oysters"

Verb
* S: (v) culture (grow in a special preparation) "the biologist grows microorganisms"
 
Wirelessly posted

I'm happy that you told me I'm wrong cos some posts does bother me as I read similar comments from another websites. I just kept seeing people said the same thing sometimes, especially "nobody cares" commenters.

Just ignore what I said... I already said I was being reaction. Sorry.
 
Wirelessly posted

I'm happy that you told me I'm wrong cos some posts does bother me as I read similar comments from another websites. I just kept seeing people said the same thing sometimes, especially "nobody cares" commenters.

Just ignore what I said... I already said I was being reaction. Sorry.
:hug:
 
Ah, I see what is your qualm with my post now. I am not sure where your definition of culture was retrieved, but it seems to be relating to an aging explanation.
It's the common anthropological definition. Since the topic was people groups that seemed most appropriate.


For example, see reference at Princeton's WordNet.

* S: (n) culture, civilization, civilisation (a particular society at a particular time and place) "early Mayan civilization"
* S: (n) culture (the tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group)
* S: (n) acculturation, culture (all the knowledge and values shared by a society)
* S: (n) culture ((biology) the growing of microorganisms in a nutrient medium (such as gelatin or agar)) "the culture of cells in a Petri dish"
* S: (n) polish, refinement, culture, cultivation, finish (a highly developed state of perfection; having a flawless or impeccable quality) "they performed with great polish"; "I admired the exquisite refinement of his prose"; "almost an inspiration which gives to all work that finish which is almost art"--Joseph Conrad
* S: (n) culture (the attitudes and behavior that are characteristic of a particular social group or organization) "the developing drug culture"; "the reason that the agency is doomed to inaction has something to do with the FBI culture"
* S: (n) culture (the raising of plants or animals) "the culture of oysters"

Verb
* S: (v) culture (grow in a special preparation) "the biologist grows microorganisms"
Which definition did you have in mind when you posted?

Certainly not "the growing of microorganisms in a nutrient medium." :lol:
 
Apparently you and I have totally different outlooks on the value of human life.

We do have to "tel"l people what to
do sometimes in order that they not harm others.

It is NOT the value of human life we disagree on -- It is the value of FREEDOM and the right to choose we disagree on.

Suicide is about control. I never really understood why people commit suicide until I came across a few poems that satirized suicidal intentions; before I thought it was a callous and selfish way, but now I understand that it's altogether different ball-game.

I am not worried about the people who say they will commit suicide anymore now that I understand most of it is a mind-game; haven't known anyone that actually follow through with what they say. I am more worried about the ones that hide their depression, since I've lost a few people to that.


Who threatens to commit suicide?

The threat of suicide is the obverse of the threat of murder. "If you don't do what I want you to I will kill you," becomes, "If you don't do what I want you to I will kill myself before you kill me -- So there."

Sort of like, "You can't fire me -- I quit."

"You want to run away from home? Okay, let me help you pack your bags."

It is a simple game of Brinkmanship. striving for control at all costs. If you don't call their bluff you will be the slave to this threat every time they want to toss it out there. If you call their bluff and they actually do go through with it (Unlikely but it does happen) then you have to live "With their blood on your hands."

Either way you will never be free of this person until you say, "I am done with you," and mean it.

This type of person does need help, but the help they need is learning healthier ways of playing the game of life.


Who "Attempts" suicide?

Ahhhh! The ultimate attention getter.

Now everyone has to stop what they are doing and run to save the life of the person who felt they were neglected. You must prove you really do care. They are now in complete control and they have proven they will back up what they say with actions.

There is really only one way to stop this game. That is to firmly let the person know that you view this as a choice, a course of action, that is theirs, and that while you may not approve, you will not stop them, even if you personally will be saddened by their departure.

Once they are convinced they will receive no rescue from you -- They will never bother you with this again. In fact they may never associate with you again on the basis that you -- Not they -- Are a monster.

Too bad. I don't like people who play games like that.



Who then actually does commit suicide?

Interestingly while those who threaten suicide and those who attempt suicide are attempting to control the lives of others, those who actually do suicide are making one last effort to control their own lives. They perceive their lives as so far out of control they have only one decision they can make to gain control again -- To end it.

These people are almost impossible to stop once they have made their decision. They seldom discuss their plans unless they are in a terminal position looking for a Dr. Kevorkian.

Some of these people truly are beyond the ability of others to help them at all. It is conceivable there is no way they can get control of their lives back.

Others can be helped but it is not by condemning suicide. It is by helping them find choices that they can live with.

This may not be as easy as it sound because what seems an easy alternative option to one person may not appear feasible at all to another. A man in England once suicided because he could no longer run every morning. The man in the back house terminated his life because he could no longer do his wood work. The last thing in life he took interest in.

On the other hand I knew a woman who suicided and no one could understand why ... Until her husband remarried. The first time he beat his second wife to a bloody pulp and told her, "You call the cops or the hospital and I'll kill you," she replied, "I'd rather be as dead as your first wife than go through this -- But I'm not going to kill myself like she did -- You are going to have to do it yourself." Then she called (This was pre 911). And all of a sudden the myth of the "perfect" first marriage was shattered for all.

One woman gained control of a no win situation by committing suicide: The other by calling his bluff.

The best way to help a potential suicide is to realize when a person around you is running out of options -- And then do everything in your power to provide them with options -- And to help them to see options they may not have known exist. Sometimes to help them find the strength to exercise options that totally intimidate them.

For these people suicide is the ultimate step in taking control of their own lives.

The only way to prevent that final step is to give them the control they need.


Who are the Suicide Girls?

Now let us revisit the name "Suicide Girls" and attempt to understand what it really means in the light of "control." What are they really saying?

They are not saying, "Suicide is cute and sexy."

They are saying, "I have taken the ultimate step in controlling my own life. Your values do not influence me. To pierce or not pierce, to tattoo, or show off my body is my choice: Not yours."

They are dead to the control of others and have become reborn into control of themselves, by themselves, and for themselves.

Thus they are the "Suicide Girls".
 
I didn't hear of them til I read this thread and berry did good job explaining 2 things that can be different about suicde ;)
 
Thank you to those who understand, appreciate, and or agree with my views on this matter.

To those who do not: That is your choice as well.
 
I hate to see the term suicide thrown around so casually like it's cool or hip.

Mentally healthy people don't threaten or try suicide. People struggling with depression often commit suicide because they don't see a way out. Depression warps thinking and makes a person believe that life is hopeless. Borderline personality disordered people often threaten suicide and this is a symptom of their disorder.

If a person threatens suicide, that person needs mental health care. Ignoring a person who is in mentally ill is like walking past a bleeding body without calling 911.

The legacy of suicide is horrible and many people who have a loved one commit suicide later kill themselves. It's almost like it's contagious.

Berry, I understand your point. I just don't believe that someone who kills himself is in a right mind to make that decision. Mentally ill people aren't well enough to make rational decision.
 
I hate to see the term suicide thrown around so casually like it's cool or hip.

Mentally healthy people don't threaten or try suicide. People struggling with depression often commit suicide because they don't see a way out. Depression warps thinking and makes a person believe that life is hopeless. Borderline personality disordered people often threaten suicide and this is a symptom of their disorder.

If a person threatens suicide, that person needs mental health care. Ignoring a person who is in mentally ill is like walking past a bleeding body without calling 911.

The legacy of suicide is horrible and many people who have a loved one commit suicide later kill themselves. It's almost like it's contagious.

Berry, I understand your point. I just don't believe that someone who kills himself is in a right mind to make that decision. Mentally ill people aren't well enough to make rational decision.

This one happened last week. Horribly tragic.....of course they all are

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon..._vr/stories/071810dnmetcoppell.14e4d0273.html
 
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