Signing exact English (SEE) Resources

If, as you claim, to have been raised with ASL and you "turned out all right" (I would agree) then why do you need me to supply the data and research when it is available in books, in reports and on the Internet?

I challenge you to do your own research, answer your own questions, then let's have a civil discussion, not with acrimony or 4-letter words, as some have posted elsewhere on this site.

Hammond Ham
 
Food for thought (IF one can think)......

Babies are born with no language, PERIOD.

Babies acquire any language from their parents, siblings and the society in which they live.

Babies DO NOT have a say as to what their primary language will/should be.

Parents make decisions for their children.

If they make an improper choice, then the children suffer and society suffers, too.

Babies are taught whatever happens to be the preference of their parents.

They have no say in their parents decision.

Thus, your paradigm is inaccurate, your statement holds no water.

Hammond Ham
 
Over heated and out of control!

Your location shows to be a "swamp"....Maybe more aptly stated as a "morass".

I am not overly impressed with "academics" or "professors" who Know everything about something or nothing.

Be assured, as long as the blogs remain genteel and polite, inasmuch as is humanly possible, I shall remain on board and on topic.

If your jaw has "hit the ground" (as you stated), maybe you needed a "shock treatment".

I keep hearing about "made up", "manufactured", "contrived" sign systems. Haven't you?

See1, See2, Cued Speech, NZSL and on and on, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. All of them
are as stated.

But, ASL, is another "made up", "manufactured", "contrived" system, developed NOT in the USA, but in France!

The original and basic signs are French, not English.

Across the nation, ASL is fragmented, non-standardized, with local and regionalized signs, fraught with colocialisms and "home" signs.

What one sign communicates in one place fails to hold true for another.

A sign, used in an academic setting, can have a completely different meaning in a medical setting, or one is conscripted to finger spelling.

Not so with SEE1 Or maybe SEE2, or others(?), especially SEE1/MSS, with an over 50,000 signable English vocabulary!

At last glance, it appears that SEE2 has met an untimely demise. It's last update was
August of 2009, with nothing newer listed on its website. Anyone have newer, better information on SEE2?

So, the next time I hear/see any more misinformation about any sign system as being "made up", "manufactured" or "contrived", just remember that ASL, too, is a "made up", "manufactured" and "contrived" system.

Now, speaking of academia, where is the list of Doctorate Degree graduates, achieved by prelingually deaf people, from highly esteemed universities (ie: Gallaudet, etc.) ?

You can count them on one hand, maybe two. The others are all hearing, post-lingual or deafened, all with a command of English and well socialized.

At my last tally, some 20 years back, I was hard pressed to identify many, just few.

Maybe, today, you can do better, so PLEASE help me, update me, with your own empirical research.

You may be able to help me to learn a bit more than I now do.

Hammond Ham
 
Madam,

I was taught to not argue with a foolish person.

You seem to qualify as being a product of a long failed, educationally incestuous, self serving, head-in-the-sand, academic (so called) philosophy that has bought into the same old barf, regurgitated for over 100 years, concerning all aspects of deaf education and society.

100-years? Oh wow... I see. So the Milan Conference of 1880 made no impact on the quality of ASL Deaf Education? A ban on sign languages that lasted 130-some years? Before an apology was issued?

There are none so blind that they choose not to see, for if you had, you would be able to understand that the falsehoods and assumptions, fostered in over the years and accepted by the academically impaired as truths, are a castle built on sand.

Your only rebuttal is limited to asking multiple, inane, questions, mainly concerning my credentials. Well, if 40+ years of hands-on, raising two deaf, adopted children to adulthood is not good enough, then there is no way to get you to consider my blog or to reconsider your own failed philosophy and methodology.

Anyone can start up a blog, and it doesn't make them creditable. Anyone can get a degree, which doesn't make them any more educated. Anyone can work in a field for several decades and not be blessed with the power of authority.

Until you have done English transliteration, at a graduate school, in mathematics, psychology and astrophysics, I think you are ill prepared for an intellectual challenge.

So basically you're gloating about your education? I am sorry, but the most of the people I've worked with know that it's a losing battle for whoever decides to play the "I am more educated than you" card. Please don't do this.

I am appalled that, in the 21st century, the deaf education system (for the most part) remains mired in 19th century thinking and you have so ably demonstrated that you remain as a part of that failure.

19th century mindset? You do realize that bilingual-bicultural education only just arose in the 1990s? Hardly anything 19th century about it, especially since the Milan Conference making it difficult for ASL to be accepted by the mainstream for so many decades. I should know, I am a product of a bilingual-bicultural education, up to a point, born to a hearing family and not to culturally Deaf family.

There is little honesty in deaf education and ignorance begets more ignorance, the results are, by and large, the unfortunate deaf are pawns for their service providers self gratification and benefit, while much of the deaf remain under educated, unemployable, all the while being manipulated by their "benefactors".

That go all around, and not just with the ASL Deaf. You're forgetting the fact ASL Deaf are in the minority in a whole sea of deaf and hard-of-hearing people. Are the oral or late deaf doing ANY better than the ASL Deaf? They sure ain't. The statistics seem to be based on the entire hearing loss population.

With many deaf reading with a 2nd to 4th grade English proficiency, they are ill prepared to flourish in a modern technological, predominately hearing, society.

Care to list the factors why they are reading at a grade two level? Also, many Americans and Canadians can't read past grade four level as well. So what's the glass ceiling for the universal low-level literacy among North Americans?

Intellectual dishonesty and haughty claims for the "good" (deaf service providers) they have done and are doing, in retrospect, and upon minute examination clearly have not brought the deaf into the 21st century.

They do not comprehend written or spoken English (a prerequisite), they remain at odds with the rest of society, all the while you foster and support the systems and 19th century thought that enslave them.

Again, most deaf and hard-of-hearing are not ASL Deaf. Please factor this in. Also consider the fact that there was a ban on sign languages for several decades, and not to mention that the concept of a BiBi (bilingual-bicultural) education is a relatively recent attempt in the deaf education system.

I am sorry for replying to this post, and I am trying to avoid conflicts these days, but there are so many factors are play that are not being considered in the 21st century with your 20th century mentality.
 
Over heated and out of control!

Your location shows to be a "swamp"....Maybe more aptly stated as a "morass".

I am not overly impressed with "academics" or "professors" who Know everything about something or nothing.

Be assured, as long as the blogs remain genteel and polite, inasmuch as is humanly possible, I shall remain on board and on topic.

If your jaw has "hit the ground" (as you stated), maybe you needed a "shock treatment".

I keep hearing about "made up", "manufactured", "contrived" sign systems. Haven't you?

See1, See2, Cued Speech, NZSL and on and on, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. All of them
are as stated.

But, ASL, is another "made up", "manufactured", "contrived" system, developed NOT in the USA, but in France!

The original and basic signs are French, not English.

Across the nation, ASL is fragmented, non-standardized, with local and regionalized signs, fraught with colocialisms and "home" signs.

What one sign communicates in one place fails to hold true for another.

A sign, used in an academic setting, can have a completely different meaning in a medical setting, or one is conscripted to finger spelling.

Not so with SEE1 Or maybe SEE2, or others(?), especially SEE1/MSS, with an over 50,000 signable English vocabulary!

At last glance, it appears that SEE2 has met an untimely demise. It's last update was
August of 2009, with nothing newer listed on its website. Anyone have newer, better information on SEE2?

So, the next time I hear/see any more misinformation about any sign system as being "made up", "manufactured" or "contrived", just remember that ASL, too, is a "made up", "manufactured" and "contrived" system.

Now, speaking of academia, where is the list of Doctorate Degree graduates, achieved by prelingually deaf people, from highly esteemed universities (ie: Gallaudet, etc.) ?

You can count them on one hand, maybe two. The others are all hearing, post-lingual or deafened, all with a command of English and well socialized.

At my last tally, some 20 years back, I was hard pressed to identify many, just few.

Maybe, today, you can do better, so PLEASE help me, update me, with your own empirical research.

You may be able to help me to learn a bit more than I now do.

Hammond Ham

By your statements, I can safetly assume that you think William Stokes research proving ASL as a language of its own was a fraud?
 
Over heated and out of control!

Your location shows to be a "swamp"....Maybe more aptly stated as a "morass".

I am not overly impressed with "academics" or "professors" who Know everything about something or nothing.

Be assured, as long as the blogs remain genteel and polite, inasmuch as is humanly possible, I shall remain on board and on topic.

If your jaw has "hit the ground" (as you stated), maybe you needed a "shock treatment".

I keep hearing about "made up", "manufactured", "contrived" sign systems. Haven't you?

See1, See2, Cued Speech, NZSL and on and on, ad nauseum, ad infinitum. All of them
are as stated.

But, ASL, is another "made up", "manufactured", "contrived" system, developed NOT in the USA, but in France!

The original and basic signs are French, not English.

Across the nation, ASL is fragmented, non-standardized, with local and regionalized signs, fraught with colocialisms and "home" signs.

What one sign communicates in one place fails to hold true for another.

A sign, used in an academic setting, can have a completely different meaning in a medical setting, or one is conscripted to finger spelling.

Not so with SEE1 Or maybe SEE2, or others(?), especially SEE1/MSS, with an over 50,000 signable English vocabulary!

At last glance, it appears that SEE2 has met an untimely demise. It's last update was
August of 2009, with nothing newer listed on its website. Anyone have newer, better information on SEE2?

So, the next time I hear/see any more misinformation about any sign system as being "made up", "manufactured" or "contrived", just remember that ASL, too, is a "made up", "manufactured" and "contrived" system.

Now, speaking of academia, where is the list of Doctorate Degree graduates, achieved by prelingually deaf people, from highly esteemed universities (ie: Gallaudet, etc.) ?

You can count them on one hand, maybe two. The others are all hearing, post-lingual or deafened, all with a command of English and well socialized.

At my last tally, some 20 years back, I was hard pressed to identify many, just few.

Maybe, today, you can do better, so PLEASE help me, update me, with your own empirical research.

You may be able to help me to learn a bit more than I now do.

Hammond Ham

I'm just one of those non SEE1 deaf people you despise.

Interesting you jump to the conclusion I am an educator just because of my writing skills. ;)
 
Hammond Ham...I can see that you are a highly intellectual individual with a strong command of English but rest assured, it doesn't make you any more intelligent than a Deaf person who has a strong command of ASL even if that person doesn't have as strong of a command in English as you do. That's the problem with society..the view that English is the superiror language.
 
Hammond Ham...I can see that you are a highly intellectual individual with a strong command of English but rest assured, it doesn't make you any more intelligent than a Deaf person who has a strong command of ASL even if that person doesn't have as strong of a command in English as you do. That's the problem with American society..the view that English is the superiror language to measure one's intellectual level.
 
Madam,

I was taught to not argue with a foolish person.

You seem to qualify as being a product of a long failed, educationally incestuous, self serving, head-in-the-sand, academic (so called) philosophy that has bought into the same old barf, regurgitated for over 100 years, concerning all aspects of deaf education and society.

There are none so blind that they choose not to see, for if you had, you would be able to understand that the falsehoods and assumptions, fostered in over the years and accepted by the academically impaired as truths, are a castle built on sand.

Your only rebuttal is limited to asking multiple, inane, questions, mainly concerning my credentials. Well, if 40+ years of hands-on, raising two deaf, adopted children to adulthood is not good enough, then there is no way to get you to consider my blog or to reconsider your own failed philosophy and methodology.

Until you have done English transliteration, at a graduate school, in mathematics, psychology and astrophysics, I think you are ill prepared for an intellectual challenge.

I am appalled that, in the 21st century, the deaf education system (for the most part) remains mired in 19th century thinking and you have so ably demonstrated that you remain as a part of that failure.

There is little honesty in deaf education and ignorance begets more ignorance, the results are, by and large, the unfortunate deaf are pawns for their service providers self gratification and benefit, while much of the deaf remain under educated, unemployable, all the while being manipulated by their "benefactors".

With many deaf reading with a 2nd to 4th grade English proficiency, they are ill prepared to flourish in a modern technological, predominately hearing, society.

Intellectual dishonesty and haughty claims for the "good" (deaf service providers) they have done and are doing, in retrospect, and upon minute examination clearly have not
brought the deaf into the 21st century.

They do not comprehend written or spoken English (a prerequisite), they remain at odds with the rest of society, all the while you foster and support the systems and 19th century thought that enslave them.

Personally, madam, I would not wish to arrive at the Great White Throne, on Judgment Day, where all, great and small, will have to answer for our thoughts and actions, only to hear of the punishment that is sure to come.

"That which you have done to the least of them, you have done unto Me" and deaf ed has a lot of explaining to do.

Have you truly educated the deaf? NO!

Have you lessened their need for your services? NO!

Can they read and comprehend English or have you enslaved them to having to have an interpreter? YES!

Have you made them independent (NO!) or dependent (YES!).

Can they read the Closed Captions with understanding. NO! The (6th grade) words "too hard" and "go too fast"?

Until we, all together, bring the deaf up to a minimal par of their hearing peers, using modern manual English communications, digital hearing aids and cochlear implants, to name a few, deaf education stands condemned.

By the way, our school systems are not doing a commendable job of educating the hearing, either.

I pray that you will not long remain as a "stumble in the march of time".

I have thrown down the gauntlet!

I have made a mark in the sand.

Are you ready for the challenge?

Then, bring it on or cease and desist your disinformation.


And so the Man of La Mancha closed the visor of his helm, lowered his trusty lance and coaxed Rocinante forward. Villain! he screamed at the dragon before him.
 
And so the Man of La Mancha closed the visor of his helm, lowered his trusty lance and coaxed Rocinante forward. Villain! he screamed at the dragon before him.

You too are beginning to believe there is something seriously wrong with this guy? :wave:
 
:lol:

You mean you didn't already get that from:



:lol:

I should have, shouldn't I? :lol:

It would sure be interesting to see what his adopted children have to say about their upbringing and psychological well being.
 
To dispel the "mystery" surrounding Hammond Ham...

FYI, I am NOT a college graduate, I am not a high school graduate and I doubt that most college "grad-u-ates" do not have any higher IQ than do I.

I have over 40 years in working with and raising deaf and HoH children. My success rate is not 100%, but neither is yours.

My children have outpaced most of those exiting most deaf ed programs.

My hands on experience, IMNSHO, is equal to, maybe more, than most BS, MS and DR sheep skins.

BS = We all know what that is.

MS = More of the same.

PHD = Piled Higher and Deeper.

It is sad that those with high academic titles have, for the most part, never raised a deaf child and only regurgitate the academic tripe with which they have been fed.

I subscribe to "NO GUTS, NO GLORY" and my children attest to my GUTS and GLORY.

The encyclopedia notes that l'Eppe "developed his Old French Sign Lsnguage as a means to educate and to "save the deaf" (from themselves, I presume).

That same spirit permeates deaf academia to this very day. It is a manifestation of the selfish pride, the "feel-good" of controlling others and, along the way, of demeaning everything or anyone that disagrees or postulates anything new or inventive.

Most are too timid to examine or try anything new, besides, they are content with the status quo no matter who suffers, just as long as they are not challenged in their thinking.

As for me, I'll try most anything (at least until disproved) to teach (not my profession).

All in all, I have been successful, especially in helping to educate my children (with no thanks to the "professionals, so called).

Here is a think-it-over......lead, follow or get out of the way! I am a pioneer, a thinker, a mover and shaker of ideas and policies.

How about you? Have you ever taken the chance to experiment, to test, challenge or promote something new or inventive?

No, you have not the guts to move outside a proscribed comfort zone and, there, you shall live and die, never having experienced the "agony of defeat" or of real success.

Your tombstone should read, "I never tried anything new, once"?

Maybe you need a change in career and a redirection.

Now, be genteel in your response. You are a lady, aren't you?

Hammond Ham -aka- Nemisis
 
To dispel the "mystery" surrounding Hammond Ham...

FYI, I am NOT a college graduate, I am not a high school graduate and I doubt that most college "grad-u-ates" do not have any higher IQ than do I.

I have over 40 years in working with and raising deaf and HoH children. My success rate is not 100%, but neither is yours.

My children have outpaced most of those exiting most deaf ed programs.

My hands on experience, IMNSHO, is equal to, maybe more, than most BS, MS and DR sheep skins.

BS = We all know what that is.

MS = More of the same.

PHD = Piled Higher and Deeper.

It is sad that those with high academic titles have, for the most part, never raised a deaf child and only regurgitate the academic tripe with which they have been fed.

I subscribe to "NO GUTS, NO GLORY" and my children attest to my GUTS and GLORY.

The encyclopedia notes that l'Eppe "developed his Old French Sign Lsnguage as a means to educate and to "save the deaf" (from themselves, I presume).

That same spirit permeates deaf academia to this very day. It is a manifestation of the selfish pride, the "feel-good" of controlling others and, along the way, of demeaning everything or anyone that disagrees or postulates anything new or inventive.

Most are too timid to examine or try anything new, besides, they are content with the status quo no matter who suffers, just as long as they are not challenged in their thinking.

As for me, I'll try most anything (at least until disproved) to teach (not my profession).

All in all, I have been successful, especially in helping to educate my children (with no thanks to the "professionals, so called).

Here is a think-it-over......lead, follow or get out of the way! I am a pioneer, a thinker, a mover and shaker of ideas and policies.

How about you? Have you ever taken the chance to experiment, to test, challenge or promote something new or inventive?

No, you have not the guts to move outside a proscribed comfort zone and, there, you shall live and die, never having experienced the "agony of defeat" or of real success.

Your tombstone should read, "I never tried anything new, once"?

Maybe you need a change in career and a redirection.

Now, be genteel in your response. You are a lady, aren't you?

Hammond Ham -aka- Nemisis

What about those educators who are deaf themselves?
 
Henceforth, I shall post but I will ignore your corrupted mindset. It deserve only silence and I bet that really disturbs your lapses in your synapses. HH
 
Henceforth, I shall post but I will ignore your corrupted mindset. It deserve only silence and I bet that really disturbs your lapses in your synapses. HH

I guess there is no point in this..
 
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