Signing exact English (SEE) Resources

[shel90]

You are so fucking full of shit it's coming out your ears and stinking the place up.

I love your bad language.

 

[Bottesini]

You are so fucking full of shit it's coming out your ears and stinking the place up.

Just want to make sure the nasty man knows that you are ensconced in the halls of academia, Professor.

Hard hitting and to the point, from another fluent deaf adult.

Some Chaucerian vulgarities would probably convinced him. :P

 

[Frisky Feline]

You are so fucking full of shit it's coming out your ears and stinking the place up.

Oh thewritealex! But I like the way you are thinking.

 

[shel90]

Oh thewritealex! But I like the way you are thinking.

Before we met in person, he warned me that he uses a lot of bad language..and I told him that my hubby does too. They got along so great!

 

[Frisky Feline]

Before we met in person, he warned me that he uses a lot of bad language..and I told him that my hubby does too. They got along so great!

ha ha now i know his tendency to talk in bad language and I dont mind.

 

[Reba]

Madam, I fear that you have been misinformed as to the ability for (even) babies to acquire language (any language). In our society, English is the most common mode of verbal communications while ASL (great as it may be) is self limiting and accounts for the dismal failure of academia to instill English.

It's not ASL that accounts for low literacy scores; it is, as you say, "the dismal failure of academia to instill English." If "academia" would teach English by properly utilizing ASL rather than wasting time monkeying around with created sign "systems," it might not be such a dismal failure.

It's amazing how deaf people managed to become literate in the days before any SEE systems were invited.

My, oh, my, how did the poor deafies manage before the Almighty Academia stepped in with the holy SEE?

Test scores show that a predominant number of deaf are inadequately skilled in English, as a result, many are functionally illiterate, under or unemployable, living outside the mainstream of society.

Sadly, the same can be said for many hearing Americans. Maybe hearie Americans need someone to develope a new reading system for them. There's probably more profit in doing that then improving the way reading and writing is now taught in public schools. That would also keep lots of grad students busy.

For that reason, solomente, I favor using SEE1/MSS to instill English. The deaf will acquire ASL as a matter of living in and around other deaf people. It does not HAVE to be taught, they acquire it "via osmosis" from their surroundings.

Oh, really? As an "expert" on deaf people, certainly you realize that most deaf people in America don't live in deaf communities. Most deaf children are born into hearing families. Most deaf children attend mainstream public schools with a majority of hearing students. (Question: how do deaf people live "in" other deaf people?)

Since you believe that ASL can be acquired via osmosis, and therefore doesn't need to be taught, should we say the same thing for hearing children? They learn spoken English thru osmosis, and therefore don't need to be taught English, right? So we can do away with all English classes for hearing kids.

From a purely "technical viewpoint", the deaf (to whatever degree) SHOULD learn English as their PRIMARY language or live forever under the control of people who would keep them "under their thumbs", having to depend on "others" to meagerly deal out their life essentials from big government, churches, social organizations, family and friends.

What about living under the thumbs of hearing "experts" who force created sign systems on them?

Sir, you have shown ignorance of and lack of respect for the many, many deaf Americans who are thriving members of their communities. They don't depend on others for their life essentials, and they enjoy lives beyond meager existence.

Sadly, the deaf have become "chattle pawns". I do not want that to be the lot for the deaf in the 21st century. Your comments, please. Hammond Ham

I find it hypocritical for someone who has profited from making deaf people "chattel pawns" of an educational system that stole their language to criticize others.

(BTW, you might want to use your spell checker before posting again.)

IMHO

 

[TWA]

I really like Reba.

 

[KristinaB]

Reba is fantastic!! But, so are you WriteAlex!!

 

[Reba]

AllDeaf mutual admiration society!

 

[Frisky Feline]

sweet!

 

[TWA]

ha ha now i know his tendency to talk in bad language and I dont mind.

I love your bad language.

Ooh, the ladies love it when I talk dirty

Just want to make sure the nasty man knows that you are ensconced in the halls of academia, Professor.

Hard hitting and to the point, from another fluent deaf adult.

Some Chaucerian vulgarities would probably convinced him. :P

I don't use that type of language in the classroom, not normally anyway. But if a student said something as asinine as what we just heard from our new friend here, I can assure you I would go apeshit on him/her.

 

[TWA]

AllDeaf mutual admiration society!

You picked apart that ridiculous post from top to bottom and exposed it for the misinformation that it was, all while managing to keep a cool head (which I admit to not always keeping. lol).

You have my unyielding respect and admiration.

 

[shel90]

I really like Reba.

Me too!!!

Reba

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Reba really tore a new one.

 

[Hammond Ham]

I notice that the SEE2 materials from the S.E.E. Center was last updated in August 2009. Are there later updates? Is there an on-line dictionary? Twenty years back, Gerilee Gustafson was at Gallaudet, but she is no longer listed as an employee or as an associate with Gally. Is she still alive or deceased?

SEE1 has information , online, from Amarillo (TX) ISD, where the entire regional school for the deaf is alive and well.

 

[naisho]

So I see what you guys have been up to when we were gone. Weekly drama fix?
Perfect timing!

 

[Anij]

Madam, I fear that you have been misinformed as to the ability for (even) babies to acquire language (any language).

Actually, I know many hearing, Hoh & deaf babies as young as 5months who are able to communicate a number of specific ideas via the use of ASL signs ... including my hearing niece who is 6months old, months earlier than they would physically be able to produce comprehend-able spoken words. That most infants are unable to begin to speak until around a year has mis-lead researchers etc to believe that this is the cusp of being able to communicate in a linguistic manner ... however the use of sign, proves that infants are able to comprehend, understand and reproduce language much earlier (sometimes as early as 4months, which is when they are able to intentionally open and close hands, make intentional hand and arm movements etc)

In our society, English is the most common mode of verbal communications while ASL (great as it may be) is self limiting and accounts for the dismal failure of academia to instill English. Test scores show that a predominant number of deaf are inadequately skilled in English, as a result, many are functionally illiterate, under or unemployable, living outside the mainstream of society.

No, the primary reason that SOME deaf and hoh children are behind linguistically, and test low is because they are far too often left without ANY cohesive language structure not only in their first months of life (prior to Dx, and while the parents are assessing what to do, which can take months, and sometimes years) - but also are routinely given substandard access to the educational environment once formal education is begun (Kindergarten/Grade 1). This substandard access is due, largely to under-trained, non-certified "Interpreters" (who most often have no interpreter training at all ... but have take "some ASL classes"). It is impossible for a child to be on par with their peers when the they are cut off from full, accurate and fluent language modelling (much like trying to learn French from an adult who took 3years of French -8years ago, and hasn't used it since, but is now going to "teach you")

The deaf will acquire ASL as a matter of living in and around other deaf people. It does not HAVE to be taught, they acquire it "via osmosis" from their surroundings. From a purely "technical viewpoint", the deaf (to whatever degree) SHOULD learn English as their PRIMARY language or live forever under the control of people who would keep them "under their thumbs", having to depend on "others" to meagerly deal out their life essentials from big government, churches, social organizations, family and friends.

People SHOULD use whatever they WANT as their primary language! For many, if not most deaf (and pre-lingually Hoh for that matter) the manner which makes the most sense to communicate, is the one which offers complete access and understanding thereof (ASL/BSL/Auslan/NZSL etc).Having ASL as one's primary language (of thought, communication, education, etc) does NOT mean that the person is somehow unable to also be fluent in (an)other language(s). This bi-lingual nature is actually a common occurrence in most countries where the population speaks one langauge at home, one at school and one communicating globally.
A perfect example of this is Canada, where many many families PRIMARY language is something other than either English, or French (our country's two official languages). While the family members may use English &/or French to communicate at school/work or in some social situations... They still consider their primary language to be: Tagalog, German, Spanish, Lao, Korean, Japanese, Cree, Hebrew/Yiddish, Arabic, ASL etc.

 

[rockdrummer]

You are so fucking full of shit it's coming out your ears and stinking the place up.

I fear that you are holding back. Come on Alex, how do you really feel?

 

[Hammond Ham]

Your chauvinism is almost unbelievable, is the first comment that comes to my mind.

Did your adopted children abandon you, and that is why you are here lecturing us??

I am sure you won't be here long, but my jaw has dropped as far as is physically possible.

Madam,

I was taught to not argue with a foolish person.

You seem to qualify as being a product of a long failed, educationally incestuous, self serving, head-in-the-sand, academic (so called) philosophy that has bought into the same old barf, regurgitated for over 100 years, concerning all aspects of deaf education and society.

There are none so blind that they choose not to see, for if you had, you would be able to understand that the falsehoods and assumptions, fostered in over the years and accepted by the academically impaired as truths, are a castle built on sand.

Your only rebuttal is limited to asking multiple, inane, questions, mainly concerning my credentials. Well, if 40+ years of hands-on, raising two deaf, adopted children to adulthood is not good enough, then there is no way to get you to consider my blog or to reconsider your own failed philosophy and methodology.

Until you have done English transliteration, at a graduate school, in mathematics, psychology and astrophysics, I think you are ill prepared for an intellectual challenge.

I am appalled that, in the 21st century, the deaf education system (for the most part) remains mired in 19th century thinking and you have so ably demonstrated that you remain as a part of that failure.

There is little honesty in deaf education and ignorance begets more ignorance, the results are, by and large, the unfortunate deaf are pawns for their service providers self gratification and benefit, while much of the deaf remain under educated, unemployable, all the while being manipulated by their "benefactors".

With many deaf reading with a 2nd to 4th grade English proficiency, they are ill prepared to flourish in a modern technological, predominately hearing, society.

Intellectual dishonesty and haughty claims for the "good" (deaf service providers) they have done and are doing, in retrospect, and upon minute examination clearly have not
brought the deaf into the 21st century.

They do not comprehend written or spoken English (a prerequisite), they remain at odds with the rest of society, all the while you foster and support the systems and 19th century thought that enslave them.

Personally, madam, I would not wish to arrive at the Great White Throne, on Judgment Day, where all, great and small, will have to answer for our thoughts and actions, only to hear of the punishment that is sure to come.

"That which you have done to the least of them, you have done unto Me" and deaf ed has a lot of explaining to do.

Have you truly educated the deaf? NO!

Have you lessened their need for your services? NO!

Can they read and comprehend English or have you enslaved them to having to have an interpreter? YES!

Have you made them independent (NO!) or dependent (YES!).

Can they read the Closed Captions with understanding. NO! The (6th grade) words "too hard" and "go too fast"?

Until we, all together, bring the deaf up to a minimal par of their hearing peers, using modern manual English communications, digital hearing aids and cochlear implants, to name a few, deaf education stands condemned.

By the way, our school systems are not doing a commendable job of educating the hearing, either.

I pray that you will not long remain as a "stumble in the march of time".

I have thrown down the gauntlet!

I have made a mark in the sand.

Are you ready for the challenge?

Then, bring it on or cease and desist your disinformation.

 

[Hammond Ham]

Then you have been richly blessed. Not many have ascended to your level of English fluency. My only gripe is that, overall, deaf ed has been an academic failure, a failure at educating, a failure in benefits. While you have your independence, able to live and work in a predominately hearing world, many deaf are still under educated and "The System" keeps them uninformed and dependent. Hammond Ham