SEE is a language... It's English...

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"SEE does not achieve the same result as ASL. In fact, it has been shown through much research that it acutually provides a confusing linguistic environment. And of course there are ways that are superior for accomplishing a specific goal. That holds true for everything." Jillio
 
CSign said:
"SEE does not achieve the same result as ASL. In fact, it has been shown through much research that it acutually provides a confusing linguistic environment. And of course there are ways that are superior for accomplishing a specific goal. That holds true for everything." Jillio
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She has a PhD in it. So she knows what she is saying.
 
WRITE WRITE WRITE is only way to improve our English skills. Sign language is just simply that a VISUAL language, the language that represents the intention of one's expressed language.
 
LinuxGold said:
WRITE WRITE WRITE is only way to improve our English skills. Sign language is just simply that a VISUAL language, the language that represents the intention of one's expressed language.
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I have taken your advice ten times more thoroughly than you yourself! :P
 
CSign said:
If you choose not to be open to different options, then that is your loss. No big deal ;-) I just wanted to share my experience, which has been effective and positive for my son. I think it is sad for people to shut down something that can be an effective tool for teaching English, if the goal is for the child to be proficient in English. That's all ;-) as you may or may not have noticed, I didn't say other ways are wrong or bad. It's funny to me that one would comment that one is superior to another. I wouldn't go so far as to insult someone who has found an effective way of communicating and teaching their child just because it is different from my experience ;-)
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By what criteria are you judging effectiveness?

It would appear you that are not open to getting the correct information that could assist your son in some very beneficial ways.

ASL can be used to help a child become proficient in English. And of course one way is superior to achieving a given goal. But one would assume that your goal is to address all of the cognitive needs that a language provides for rather than just being focused on English.

Many people thought they found an effective way through the MCEs. Longitudinally, it has not shown itself to be effective in the least. That is why you don't find it in use frequently.

No one was insulting you. If you choose to take providing you with correct information insulting, then perhaps you shouldn't be making public posts that put you in that position. **shrug**
 
jillio said:
By what criteria are you judging effectiveness?

It would appear you that are not open to getting the correct information that could assist your son in some very beneficial ways.

ASL can be used to help a child become proficient in English. And of course one way is superior to achieving a given goal. But one would assume that your goal is to address all of the cognitive needs that a language provides for rather than just being focused on English.

Many people thought they found an effective way through the MCEs. Longitudinally, it has not shown itself to be effective in the least. That is why you don't find it in use frequently.

No one was insulting you. If you choose to take providing you with correct information insulting, then perhaps you shouldn't be making public posts that put you in that position. **shrug**
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So there!
 
It really isn't that ackward once you've been using it for a while, and I'm not getting defensive. I am also not discrediting Jillio, simply saying that SEE can be used as an effective mode of communication. I disagree with the oralist comment, because if someone were a true Oralist, they would not be using any sign. We embrace the use of sign language in our family as that is the way our child can clearly access language ;-)
 
Sign language, to me, is a socket.

English langauge, to me, is a nut.

We use socket to tighten a nut.

Use sign language as a tool to teach English. Those are two different things.
 
Bottesini said:
So there!
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:giggle:

I just get a bit annoyed with people constantly coming in here claiming to have found some miracle only to start talking about some outdated method that has already been disproven, and then getting all defensive when they are shown that they need to look a little farther. They don't seem to be as interested in addressing their child's needs as they are in being a savior to all the poor ignorant deaf.
 
LinuxGold said:
Sign language, to me, is a socket.

English langauge, to me, is a nut.

We use socket to tighten a nut.

Use sign language as a tool to teach English. Those are two different things.
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Bingo!!
 
CSign said:
I am well aware of the fact that ASL has nothing to do with English... As I stated, my goal was clear and effective communication with my child. I have achieved that through the use of TC and SEE. People can bash it all they want, I have experienced the reality of it's effectiveness. It is kind of sad though, that some will bash it without ever having real experience with it beyond what they've read about. That's not to say that all people who use SEE are great, I've seen poor examples of SEE as well as ASL. It comes down to the persons ability.
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Have you ever asked yourself why TC has pretty much been abandoned in deaf educational arenas? Because it is ineffective for either teaching or communicating. It provides a confusing linguistic environment. Your hands say one thing, your voice says another and they don't match up. Visual information is not processed in the same way that verbal information is processed. That is why the syntax is different between a manual language (ASL, BSL, LSF, etc.) and the spoken equivilent of the language of that hearing population.
 
That's funny... I'm not finding it personally insulting as I knew I would likely get a negative response as I've been on this forum for some time just didn't register. I am judging it's effectiveness by my sons speech and language skills, his grades, and his level of social comfort. He is able to move between both worlds, as he is a part of both. I know it is effective because his language skills in English surpass his age. I know it is effective because he is happy and confident in who he is, and can clearly express his wants and needs in sign and voice.
If I came in here saying that he is Oral and doesn't need any sign, I could completely understand people having an adverse reaction to it. The fact is that we do sign, and I do know some ASL. I have mastered SEE, and my next step is mastering ASL. I wanted my son to have access to language, he got it.
 
jillio said:
Have you ever asked yourself why TC has pretty much been abandoned in deaf educational arenas? Because it is ineffective for either teaching or communicating. It provides a confusing linguistic environment. Your hands say one thing, your voice says another and they don't match up. Visual information is not processed in the same way that verbal information is processed. That is why the syntax is different between a manual language (ASL, BSL, LSF, etc.) and the spoken equivilent of the language of that hearing population.
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I don't think MSSD uses that anymore.
 
Actually SEE is still used in some schools and no where have I seen it being proven as "outdated and ineffective." I also never claimed it was a miracle, simply that it is another option sunshine ;-)
 
CSign said:
That's funny... I'm not finding it personally insulting as I knew I would likely get a negative response as I've been on this forum for some time just didn't register. I am judging it's effectiveness by my sons speech and language skills, his grades, and his level of social comfort. He is able to move between both worlds, as he is a part of both. I know it is effective because his language skills in English surpass his age. I know it is effective because he is happy and confident in who he is, and can clearly express his wants and needs in sign and voice.
If I came in here saying that he is Oral and doesn't need any sign, I could completely understand people having an adverse reaction to it. The fact is that we do sign, and I do know some ASL. I have mastered SEE, and my next step is mastering ASL. I wanted my son to have access to language, he got it.
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What evidence do you have that SEE is responsible for all that?

And are you truly using SEE, or are you using PSE? You are actually signing every word, using all of the initialized signs, the word endings, the articles, everything that would be included in SEE. How much longer does it take you to sign the sentence than to say it?
 
My voice and hands say the same thing. Why? Because I committed to it. I agree that some people do provide conflicting information with their voice and hands. The only way to remedy that is by practice.
 
CSign - i appreciate the fact you are taking up sign language.

First I want you to know I use ASL everyday.
Second I didnt see insults in here, just correct information being given to you by much experienced people
Third I was an expert SEE user, and it sucks.
 
CSign said:
Actually SEE is still used in some schools and no where have I seen it being proven as "outdated and ineffective." I also never claimed it was a miracle, simply that it is another option sunshine ;-)
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Then you haven't bothered to read the latest research and treatises on deaf ed. I personally, have evidence going back to 1979 re: the ineffectiveness of SEE and MCE based systems.

Don't attempt to patronize. You haven't achieved that level of knowledge yet. **smile**
 
I wouldn't say SEE is responsible for all of that. I would have to give my son credit as well because he is smart and takes it all in. I am able to sign at the same pace as my voice, without compromising the integrity of either. And yes, I use all the prepositions, endings etc. In order to give a complete visual representation of what I'm saying. It didn't happen overnight. I took classes, studied, and use it everyday. That is how I was able to get to where I'm at today. I'm well read, and have researched all sides of this.
 
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