Putting your deaf children in which schools...and why?

[shel90]

But has never given any sort of picture of how that should be done. I want to know how a voice off ASL-English bi-bi program an also provide the services needed for a child to learn fluent spoken language.

I have given examples a few years ago but many of you kept telling me No, that wont work..no I dont want that so I gave up. All I know is what I support and have more faith in bridging the gap between deaf and hearing worlds. By choosing on over the other will continue to keep that gap wide open. I think most deaf children will be happy to have exposure to both.

So by with this thinking, am I correct to say that you believe that ASL will prevent deaf children from developing speech skills?

Research has proved otherwise and I know many deaf adults who grew up going to deaf schools who are fluent in both.

 

[faire_jour]

I have given examples a few years ago but many of you kept telling me No, that wont work..no I dont want that so I gave up. All I know is what I support and have more faith in bridging the gap between deaf and hearing worlds. By choosing on over the other will continue to keep that gap wide open. I think most deaf children will be happy to have exposure to both.

So by with this thinking, am I correct to say that you believe that ASL will prevent deaf children from developing speech skills?

Research has proved otherwise and I know many deaf adults who grew up going to deaf schools who are fluent in both.

I believe that spending all day in one language enviroment, (without exposure to the other language) and having no opportunites to be immersed in the other language and to use the language will prevent a child from fluently learning the language, yes.

It is not because it is ASL. If a child uses English, their family communicates with them in English. The school they attend is in English....when is the child going to learn Spanish?

 

[shel90]

I believe that spending all day in one language enviroment, (without exposure to the other language) and having no opportunites to be immersed in the other language and to use the language will prevent a child from fluently learning the language, yes.

It is not because it is ASL. If a child uses English, their family communicates with them in English. The school they attend is in English....when is the child going to learn Spanish?[/quote]

My ex hubby and his whole family did it. No problems at all. Many of my international deaf friends grew up fluent in sign language and Spanish. Just like many deaf people grew up fluent in ASL and English as well.

So, what's the issue?

 

[faire_jour]

My ex hubby and his whole family did it. No problems at all. Many of my international deaf friends grew up fluent in sign language and Spanish. Just like many deaf people grew up fluent in ASL and English as well.

So, what's the issue?

I don't see how a child can learn a language they don't have exposure to How is that possible?

 

[shel90]

I don't see how a child can learn a language they don't have exposure to How is that possible?

Then how did all of these people become bilingual or even trilingual?

 

[faire_jour]

Then how did all of these people become bilingual or even trilingual?

I assume through contact with the language! If you are learning a second or third language through your first in a structured setting it is a totally different situation than a child naturally learning language through immersion. I am talking about the easiest, most natural, developmentally appropriate way for a child to learn ANY language, and that is through exposure to fluent language, language models and immersion in and opportunities to use that language.

 

[KristinaB]

I don't see how a child can learn a language they don't have exposure to How is that possible?

There are a few teenagers in my deaf club. Deaf since birth. They are not of Spanish/Latino descent. Spanish is not a language spoken in their homes. Only English and then the use of ASL. These kids are fluent in ASL, Mexican sign language, English, Spanish and in a few cases French. They learned in school. It can be done. Deaf kids can learn a language that is not used in the home daily or ever. Their exposure is through school. Now, on the plus side, this end of Florida has a MASSIVE Latino community and culture. Everything (menus, gas pumps, groceries and all) are in both English and Spanish. Even my son, who had a whole 3 weeks of Spanish while in a virtual school, is picking up Spanish, just from hearing it all over the place from the Mexicans, Puerto Ricans and Cubans around here. We also have a large Haitian community and Creole is also popular.

 

[shel90]

I assume through contact with the language! If you are learning a second or third language through your first in a structured setting it is a totally different situation than a child naturally learning language through immersion. I am talking about the easiest, most natural, developmentally appropriate way for a child to learn ANY language, and that is through exposure to fluent language, language models and immersion in and opportunities to use that language.

Many deaf people have done it so I really dont understand what the issue is.

 

[Miss-Delectable]

Many deaf people have done it so I really dont understand what the issue is.

Yeah, I agree.

Sweden implemented bi-bi model and they are very successful. So many deaf Swedish are fluent in 3 languages or more.

There's always a way to learn a language or two. Don't always need to place so much emphasis on speech or whatever.

 

[natty_4ever]

Yeah, I agree.

Sweden implemented bi-bi model and they are very successful. So many deaf Swedish are fluent in 3 languages or more.

There's always a way to learn a language or two. Don't always need to place so much emphasis on speech or whatever.

Yep, I speak fluent English and Spanish. I'm learning ASL right now.

 

[shel90]

Yeah, I agree.

Sweden implemented bi-bi model and they are very successful. So many deaf Swedish are fluent in 3 languages or more.

There's always a way to learn a language or two. Don't always need to place so much emphasis on speech or whatever.

One of my deaf friends is from Peru..he grew up being fluent in Peruvain sign language and Spanish. Then he moved to America when he was 10 and became fluent in ASL and English.

He has no speech skills.

He is getting his PhD.

Deaf people without speech skills arent more stupid than those who do. It is a shame that many hearing people put so much emphasis on speech skills as equating to having more fluency in language. Give me a break!

 

[A]

Yep, I speak fluent English and Spanish. I'm learning ASL right now.

the problem FJ is having is that she doesn't want the brain to replace communication from auditory to visual. I do wonder if there are deaf who learned speech really late in life. or learn to hear from CI after all these years of silent (I'm sure it took awhile though)

But it doesn't mean it have to be important to survive because there are deaf who can function just fine without hearing a single thing in their life. BUT Bi-bi with both ASL and Spoken and/or written English will not screw up a child like some Oral only method can.

 

[KristinaB]

One of my deaf friends is from Peru..he grew up being fluent in Peruvain sign language and Spanish. Then he moved to America when he was 10 and became fluent in ASL and English.

He has no speech skills.

He is getting his PhD.

Deaf people without speech skills arent more stupid than those who do. It is a shame that many hearing people put so much emphasis on speech skills as equating to having more fluency in language. Give me a break!

Guess What?!! I met a brain surgeon tonight at my deaf club. He was born deaf, went to deaf residential schools and then went on to medical school. He never learned speech. He graduated top of his class and with Honors. I was quite pleased to meet him.

 

[faire_jour]

One of my deaf friends is from Peru..he grew up being fluent in Peruvain sign language and Spanish. Then he moved to America when he was 10 and became fluent in ASL and English.

He has no speech skills.

He is getting his PhD.

Deaf people without speech skills arent more stupid than those who do. It is a shame that many hearing people put so much emphasis on speech skills as equating to having more fluency in language. Give me a break!

Who says they are stupid? Just because you don't value spoken language, do not judge those who do. I want my child to have fluent ASL and spoken English.

 

[A]

Who says they are stupid? Just because you don't value spoken language, do not judge those who do. I want my child to have fluent ASL and spoken English.

You made it seem like people without speech or with little speech can't go above 4th grade reading level after I wrote children will be fine in a mixture of speech and/or written English and ASL

 

[faire_jour]

You made it seem like people without speech or with little speech can't go above 4th grade reading level after I wrote children will be fine in a mixture of speech and/or written English and ASL

I meant that nothing we are been doing for the last 50 years has worked. And a mix of speech and sign has been done. Clearly there is something going on in deaf ed and no one has found a solution. There are stand outs from every situation, but nothing has fixed the problem.

 

[KristinaB]

Who says they are stupid? Just because you don't value spoken language, do not judge those who do. I want my child to have fluent ASL and spoken English.

Where do you get the opinion that Shel does NOT value spoken language. All I have ever understood from her is the importance of BOTH speech and sign. She has said that not all deaf are able to learn speech, but she is NOT against speech for a deaf or HOH person.

Originally Posted by shel90 - Deaf people without speech skills arent more stupid than those who do. It is a shame that many hearing people put so much emphasis on speech skills as equating to having more fluency in language

She is saying here - that it is a shame that there are hearing people who are so obsessed that a deaf person have speech skills that they think they are not a whole person when they don't. that's what I get.

 

[Bottesini]

Guess What?!! I met a brain surgeon tonight at my deaf club. He was born deaf, went to deaf residential schools and then went on to medical school. He never learned speech. He graduated top of his class and with Honors. I was quite pleased to meet him.

Who was that? And what town does he practice?

 

[KristinaB]

Who was that? And what town does he practice?

Forgot his name, but he practices here in Palm Beach County. 3 different hospitals.

 

[shel90]

Where do you get the opinion that Shel does NOT value spoken language. All I have ever understood from her is the importance of BOTH speech and sign. She has said that not all deaf are able to learn speech, but she is NOT against speech for a deaf or HOH person.

Originally Posted by shel90 - Deaf people without speech skills arent more stupid than those who do. It is a shame that many hearing people put so much emphasis on speech skills as equating to having more fluency in language

She is saying here - that it is a shame that there are hearing people who are so obsessed that a deaf person have speech skills that they think they are not a whole person when they don't. that's what I get.

Thank u! Totally LOVE u! I was out all day with my deaf friends..some who have speech skills, some who have CIs and some who have none...we had a GREAT day! There was no hearing person there dictating his/her obession with our speech skills. If they would just back off, would be nice like my day was today.