Parants of CI children.

[rick48]

You probably know what my views on CI are/were although they have softened a little since I started posting here. As I started off being totally against CI. Now I'd like to aproach things with more of an open mind and reserve judgement.

I'm just curious about a few things.
What reason you have for implanting your child. Do they know sign language before or after CI surgery? If your child asked if they could stop using their CI would you be ok about it?

Here is a post I wrote to Cloggy that addresses most of your questions:

"Cloggy,

Thanks for your post but I think you are wasting your time attempting to engage in a discussion with her. I have always maintained that you should just consider the source. She does not know me, my wife, who by the way I give all the credit for raising our daughter and finally, she does not know my daughter. All she sees is that my daughter has a ci and is oral so look at some of the conclusions she has drawn:

"...hte oral approach does not benefit the deaf child either educaitonally, socially, or personally...It contiues to have negative consequences for the deaf child, as speech is emphasized over knowledge and education...Oral successes are no more numerous today than they were 100 years ago...Oralist attitudes prometoe the acceptance of oppression for all minority peoples, and are intolerant of diversity..."

The fact is that when my wife and I were considering the implant for our daughter we heard the same basic arguments against the cochlear implant: they do not work, your child will never develop speech with a ci, you are trying to turn your child into a hearing person, you do not love your child, you do not accept your child, what effect will it have upon Deaf Culture, you are trying to cure her deafness, you are being brainwashed by the professionals, etc. Much of the same misinformation that is still out there today.

But we did our research, met with deaf people both pro and con, met with professionals both pro and con, met with ci adults, parents of ci kids and ci kids themselves (although at that time there were not so many) did a lot of soul searching and made a decision that we felt, was with our daughter's best interests in our minds and in our hearts. Mind you too that all our wonderful implant team ever told us was that it might give her some access to sound and at all times emphasized that it was our decision to make and ours alone. I know I am condensing a process that took over a year into a few sentences, so please forgive me but in the end, we chose to give our daughter the benefits and opportunities of the cochlear implant. We knew we had no gurantees.

Our daughter was born into a rather large and extended family who have always loved her unconditionally and we felt it was important that she be given every opportunity to be a part of her family, her neighborhood and her community. We also wanted her to have the best education possible. We chose what we thought was best for her but we have never felt or stated it is the only way for all children or that every child should have a ci. It is a personal decision to be made by the child's parents and it is not our place to comment upon the decision others have made.

For us, the cochlear implant has exceeded all of our hopes and expectations. Our daughter is becoming a young adult (although even we question that at times!) who has unlimited opportunities ahead of her. She has great relationships with her parents, her sister, her grandparents and the rest of her family. An honor student in high school, a dean's list student in college, scholarship winner, multi-sport athlete, works and someone who possesses the most positive outlook about herself and others that I have ever met.

The complete antithesis of the negative stereotype she paints of ci teens and young adults.

So when I think of that in light of the relationship my wife and I enjoy with our daughter, my response to you about someone who says I am "destructive" to society is twofold: a wee bit melodramatic and consider the source.

To me, as I have said before there is no one way to raise any child and while we may have taken different paths we probably all share the same goals and desires for our children. Also, while a ci may not be for everyone, every parent should have the right to consider it as an option for their child.

Sorry, to be so longwinded Cloggy, but I probably have left out half of what I want to say, so let me end it now.

Keep doing what you are doing with Lotte and enjoy the ride!
Regards,
Rick "

As for some of your others, no my daughter did not know sign before being implanted, never had any interest in it growing up and now, even after taking 3 courses in it and having friends who can sign, still has no interest in it. As she is now an adult, the ci desicion (sp) is hers to make but she enjoys being able to hear, loves music and when asked that very question answers by saying the question makes no sense as why would she not want to be able to hear when she has been able to hear her whole life?
Rick

 

[doubletrouble]

Here is a post I wrote to Cloggy that addresses most of your questions:

"Cloggy,

Thanks for your post but I think you are wasting your time attempting to engage in a discussion with her. I have always maintained that you should just consider the source. She does not know me, my wife, who by the way I give all the credit for raising our daughter and finally, she does not know my daughter. All she sees is that my daughter has a ci and is oral so look at some of the conclusions she has drawn:

"...hte oral approach does not benefit the deaf child either educaitonally, socially, or personally...It contiues to have negative consequences for the deaf child, as speech is emphasized over knowledge and education...Oral successes are no more numerous today than they were 100 years ago...Oralist attitudes prometoe the acceptance of oppression for all minority peoples, and are intolerant of diversity..."

The fact is that when my wife and I were considering the implant for our daughter we heard the same basic arguments against the cochlear implant: they do not work, your child will never develop speech with a ci, you are trying to turn your child into a hearing person, you do not love your child, you do not accept your child, what effect will it have upon Deaf Culture, you are trying to cure her deafness, you are being brainwashed by the professionals, etc. Much of the same misinformation that is still out there today.

But we did our research, met with deaf people both pro and con, met with professionals both pro and con, met with ci adults, parents of ci kids and ci kids themselves (although at that time there were not so many) did a lot of soul searching and made a decision that we felt, was with our daughter's best interests in our minds and in our hearts. Mind you too that all our wonderful implant team ever told us was that it might give her some access to sound and at all times emphasized that it was our decision to make and ours alone. I know I am condensing a process that took over a year into a few sentences, so please forgive me but in the end, we chose to give our daughter the benefits and opportunities of the cochlear implant. We knew we had no gurantees.

Our daughter was born into a rather large and extended family who have always loved her unconditionally and we felt it was important that she be given every opportunity to be a part of her family, her neighborhood and her community. We also wanted her to have the best education possible. We chose what we thought was best for her but we have never felt or stated it is the only way for all children or that every child should have a ci. It is a personal decision to be made by the child's parents and it is not our place to comment upon the decision others have made.

For us, the cochlear implant has exceeded all of our hopes and expectations. Our daughter is becoming a young adult (although even we question that at times!) who has unlimited opportunities ahead of her. She has great relationships with her parents, her sister, her grandparents and the rest of her family. An honor student in high school, a dean's list student in college, scholarship winner, multi-sport athlete, works and someone who possesses the most positive outlook about herself and others that I have ever met.

The complete antithesis of the negative stereotype she paints of ci teens and young adults.

So when I think of that in light of the relationship my wife and I enjoy with our daughter, my response to you about someone who says I am "destructive" to society is twofold: a wee bit melodramatic and consider the source.

To me, as I have said before there is no one way to raise any child and while we may have taken different paths we probably all share the same goals and desires for our children. Also, while a ci may not be for everyone, every parent should have the right to consider it as an option for their child.

Sorry, to be so longwinded Cloggy, but I probably have left out half of what I want to say, so let me end it now.

Keep doing what you are doing with Lotte and enjoy the ride!
Regards,
Rick "

As for some of your others, no my daughter did not know sign before being implanted, never had any interest in it growing up and now, even after taking 3 courses in it and having friends who can sign, still has no interest in it. As she is now an adult, the ci desicion (sp) is hers to make but she enjoys being able to hear, loves music and when asked that very question answers by saying the question makes no sense as why would she not want to be able to hear when she has been able to hear her whole life?
Rick

Thank you for sharing this with us Rick... I am so sick and tired of the majority of posters here claiming that our children will reject the CI, "come home" to the Deaf community, etc. Everyone experiences are different and should be viewed as such. It's funny I posted that I was pro bi bi approach wouldn't even look at the oral approach (until I was asked to keep an open mind)What I saw and experienced with my own eyes and ears was vastly different that all the stories that I have been told (both in the past, as well as today). Wow... the silence that fell... I had the opposite experience as many of the others who had said that they cringe with the oral apprach and then thrived with the bibi approach. I know personally of many many bi-bi schools that claim to embrace the CI as well and yet, don't even reinforce to see if the child's CI is even on, working, etc. The children just wear them as showpieces and then the "experts" scream... "See it's doesn't work"... DUH!!!!!!! And only providing speech services a minimial amount of time in a quiet setting does nothing to use the CI to it's fullest potential... I think it's fair to say (sorry if I am putting words in your mouth) that we accept our children the way they are, but look for ways to make their lives better. The CI does make their lives better. Is it a cure?? No, I think we have all stated this before, but it does break down the walls of isolation a great deal. I personally know of 25 ci children (not including my own family members) that are my son's age in various schools districts and they are all happy, well adjusted children who are grade level with their peers- some above , some below, but the majority on grade level. We have signed to my son since the beginning, and funny thing, he's dropped the signs and only uses them with family members who do not speak. Cloggy has stated in prior posts that Lotte was taught sign before she was implanted and she too, dropped the signs. That, in itself, is a big tell tale sign . Thank you again for sharing your experiences Rick, they are invaluable.

 

[rick48]

... I think it's fair to say (sorry if I am putting words in your mouth) that we accept our children the way they are, but look for ways to make their lives better. The CI does make their lives better.

Doubletrouble,

No, thank you for saying so much better and so, so much nicer what I have been trying to say all along!
Rick

 

[jillio]

ok lets start afresh, I have just been implanted, it's very early days and so far i have had very little gains, so I'm not about preaching what you can achieve, as i haven't yet got there, I am not a kid, I'm married with one son, who, if was deaf i would give him the best choices available for him to get on with life.
but most of people are without a disability are full hearing, which makes the biggest percentage, to get forward in life withought the need to be included in a small minority, which very often is shallow and opinionated(as some of your own posts more than prove), even petty, in such a small world with such restrictions, where can you go if ye can't mix in with the rest of the world, or don't agree with the seemily dictorship of the Deaf world, you seem to leave no room for people who want to embrace both, humans are all about adventure, reaching out for as much as you can,all some of the small minded Deaf want is to restrict their kids to a small island of oppinionated people, in fear of their own isolation want to interr their own kin to keep it going, now how sad is that, it terms of evolution you wouldnt have survived the dinosuars! if not for the society that is funding you, the very one who you rebel against and try to stop you kids from joining.

And some of the small minded hearing do the same.

 

[jillio]

I never said that speech wasn't able to be developed. There is a difference between being able to produce and being able understand what is coming in. The goal of a CI and AVT is to have a child be able to comprehend using sound only, no visual cues at all. I am saying that most profoundly deaf people who use hearing aids are unable to do that. That is the auditory stimulation I am talking about.

There are any number of profoundly deaf CI users who are also unable to do that.

 

[shel90]

ok lets start afresh, I have just been implanted, it's very early days and so far i have had very little gains, so I'm not about preaching what you can achieve, as i haven't yet got there, I am not a kid, I'm married with one son, who, if was deaf i would give him the best choices available for him to get on with life.
but most of people are without a disability are full hearing, which makes the biggest percentage, to get forward in life withought the need to be included in a small minority, which very often is shallow and opinionated(as some of your own posts more than prove), even petty, in such a small world with such restrictions, where can you go if ye can't mix in with the rest of the world, or don't agree with the seemily dictorship of the Deaf world, you seem to leave no room for people who want to embrace both, humans are all about adventure, reaching out for as much as you can,all some of the small minded Deaf want is to restrict their kids to a small island of oppinionated people, in fear of their own isolation want to interr their own kin to keep it going, now how sad is that, it terms of evolution you wouldnt have survived the dinosuars! if not for the society that is funding you, the very one who you rebel against and try to stop you kids from joining.

I guess I must be the only lucky one on AD whose experience with the Deaf community is not like what you or others described. In my case, the Deaf community is not like that. I know of Deaf parents who have their child mainstreamed and is involved in both worlds.

 

[shel90]

Thank you for sharing this with us Rick... I am so sick and tired of the majority of posters here claiming that our children will reject the CI, "come home" to the Deaf community, etc. Everyone experiences are different and should be viewed as such. It's funny I posted that I was pro bi bi approach wouldn't even look at the oral approach (until I was asked to keep an open mind)What I saw and experienced with my own eyes and ears was vastly different that all the stories that I have been told (both in the past, as well as today). Wow... the silence that fell... I had the opposite experience as many of the others who had said that they cringe with the oral apprach and then thrived with the bibi approach. I know personally of many many bi-bi schools that claim to embrace the CI as well and yet, don't even reinforce to see if the child's CI is even on, working, etc. The children just wear them as showpieces and then the "experts" scream... "See it's doesn't work"... DUH!!!!!!! And only providing speech services a minimial amount of time in a quiet setting does nothing to use the CI to it's fullest potential... I think it's fair to say (sorry if I am putting words in your mouth) that we accept our children the way they are, but look for ways to make their lives better. The CI does make their lives better. Is it a cure?? No, I think we have all stated this before, but it does break down the walls of isolation a great deal. I personally know of 25 ci children (not including my own family members) that are my son's age in various schools districts and they are all happy, well adjusted children who are grade level with their peers- some above , some below, but the majority on grade level. We have signed to my son since the beginning, and funny thing, he's dropped the signs and only uses them with family members who do not speak. Cloggy has stated in prior posts that Lotte was taught sign before she was implanted and she too, dropped the signs. That, in itself, is a big tell tale sign . Thank you again for sharing your experiences Rick, they are invaluable.

Can u explain to me how does the CI make their lives better? By whose standards?

What about those kids who didnt get any benefit from their CIs...are they destinated for a poor quality life just like those who arent implanted?

It just seems that so many of you equate CIs with better quality of life and I dont see it.

Here is one example of why I dont see it...

I know this deaf woman who has a CI and she is jobless, living off on SSI, is a single mom, doesnt have a college education, and is always complaining about everything and I do not have a CI and I own a house, have a career, college degrees, and I am pretty happy with my life.

This is not to pick on you but just wondering why so many people see the CI as a ticket to a better life when I have seen that it really depends on each person whether they are implanted or not.

 

[David]

Can u explain to me how does the CI make their lives better? By whose standards?

What about those kids who didnt get any benefit from their CIs...are they destinated for a poor quality life just like those who arent implanted?

It just seems that so many of you equate CIs with better quality of life and I dont see it.

Here is one example of why I dont see it...

I know this deaf woman who has a CI and she is jobless, living off on SSI, is a single mom, doesnt have a college education, and is always complaining about everything and I do not have a CI and I own a house, have a career, college degrees, and I am pretty happy with my life.

This is not to pick on you but just wondering why so many people see the CI as a ticket to a better life when I have seen that it really depends on each person whether they are implanted or not.

Touché.

 

[Byrdie714]

WOW!

One person regretted implanting their child?!

I wonder what their story is....

 

[faire_jour]

Can u explain to me how does the CI make their lives better? By whose standards?

What about those kids who didnt get any benefit from their CIs...are they destinated for a poor quality life just like those who arent implanted?

It just seems that so many of you equate CIs with better quality of life and I dont see it.

Here is one example of why I dont see it...

I know this deaf woman who has a CI and she is jobless, living off on SSI, is a single mom, doesnt have a college education, and is always complaining about everything and I do not have a CI and I own a house, have a career, college degrees, and I am pretty happy with my life.

This is not to pick on you but just wondering why so many people see the CI as a ticket to a better life when I have seen that it really depends on each person whether they are implanted or not.

All I am doing is providing her an opportunity that she wouldn't have without the CI. The opportunity to understand spoken language without visual cues. That is something that she can not do with a hearing aid. I'm not saying that all kids can do it but for her the CI is the only chance. That is an improvemnt in her life.

 

[shel90]

All I am doing is providing her an opportunity that she wouldn't have without the CI. The opportunity to understand spoken language without visual cues. That is something that she can not do with a hearing aid. I'm not saying that all kids can do it but for her the CI is the only chance. That is an improvemnt in her life.

Are you prepared that even with the CI, she wont be able to develop spoken language? I have met many children with CIs who were unable to do so just like children with HAs. My brother didnt develop spoken language with HAs but I did just like so many deaf people out there I have met and interacted with. That's why I have that view I have.

I am not criticizing you for your decision but just saying that even without spoken language skills, many deaf people have gone on to lead successful and productive lives and I feel that people nowadays see the CI as the only tool that can make it possible for deaf children.

 

[faire_jour]

Are you prepared that even with the CI, she wont be able to develop spoken language? I have met many children with CIs who were unable to do so just like children with HAs. My brother didnt develop spoken language with HAs but I did just like so many deaf people out there I have met and interacted with. That's why I have that view I have.

I am not criticizing you for your decision but just saying that even without spoken language skills, many deaf people have gone on to lead successful and productive lives and I feel that people nowadays see the CI as the only tool that can make it possible for deaf children.

Show me where I said that someone can't be successful without spoken language. I'm so sick of this. Everytime a person mentions a pro to speech the come back is always "I know tons of people who are successful without speech". I know. I get it, but why not offer her the chance for both?????

I also said that I am prepared for if she doesn't, but the fact is that the stats say it is only about 5% who don't with CI's whereas with hearing aids (a generation ago) it was more like a 90% failure rate. Why always assume failure???

 

[shel90]

Show me where I said that someone can't be successful without spoken language. I'm so sick of this. Everytime a person mentions a pro to speech the come back is always "I know tons of people who are successful without speech". I know. I get it, but why not offer her the chance for both?????

I also said that I am prepared for if she doesn't, but the fact is that the stats say it is only about 5% who don't with CI's whereas with hearing aids (a generation ago) it was more like a 90% failure rate. Why always assume failure???

Where did I say that you said that? It is true that there are tons of people who are successful without speech and u say I assume failure? I am totally lost to what your point is.

That is fine about offering her both and I have always advocated to that. Jebus! I am talking about my feelings that it seems like people see the CIs as the only tool for successful spoken language skills . I got that feeling from your statement below...

All I am doing is providing her an opportunity that she wouldn't have without the CI.

 

[faire_jour]

Where did I say that you said that? It is true that there are tons of people who are successful without speech and u say I assume failure? I am totally lost to what your point is.

That is fine about offering her both and I have always advocated to that. Jebus! I am talking about my feelings that it seems like people see the CIs as the only tool for successful spoken language skills . I got that feeling from your statement below...

All I am doing is providing her an opportunity that she wouldn't have without the CI.

You assumed failure when you said "Are you prepared that even with the CI, she wont be able to develop spoken language?"

And I already stated that the opportunity the CI provides id the ability to understand spoken language without visual cues. THAT is not possible with aids.

 

[doubletrouble]

Can u explain to me how does the CI make their lives better? By whose standards?

What about those kids who didnt get any benefit from their CIs...are they destinated for a poor quality life just like those who arent implanted?

It just seems that so many of you equate CIs with better quality of life and I dont see it.

Here is one example of why I dont see it...

I know this deaf woman who has a CI and she is jobless, living off on SSI, is a single mom, doesnt have a college education, and is always complaining about everything and I do not have a CI and I own a house, have a career, college degrees, and I am pretty happy with my life.

This is not to pick on you but just wondering why so many people see the CI as a ticket to a better life when I have seen that it really depends on each person whether they are implanted or not.

I have never said the CI was a better ticket to life or success... All I have ever maintained is that it does bridge the gap and it's an assitive device that does work. My dad doesn't have a CI and owns 2 homes, 2 cars, vacations in Italy and Hawaii, I get it. The CI does open doors, and it does take a great deal of work. Just to put on a CI and say" Here you go, work".. isn't going to happen...Speech therapy for my child and many others does not focus on his speech skills or articulation at all... In fact, they should remanme it to say that it's Language therapy, because that is what he learns at speech... language and the meaning behind words. His speech has been in place since he was 5 years old.. now it's working on his language comprehension.

 

[shel90]

You assumed failure when you said "Are you prepared that even with the CI, she wont be able to develop spoken language?"

And I already stated that the opportunity the CI provides id the ability to understand spoken language without visual cues. THAT is not possible with aids.

I got the feeling that you have very high hopes so I just wanted to ask just in case. Doesnt mean she WILL fail or anything. Every individual benefits from their CIs differently so that's why I asked. I have one student who has great listening skills from his CI but for some reason, he isnt able to develop spoken language. That doesnt mean it is a failure and when I asked you that question, it doesnt mean I assume failure. That's an incorrect assumption you made about me. Maybe to you that would be consider failure but to me, it doesnt.

 

[shel90]

I have never said the CI was a better ticket to life or success... All I have ever maintained is that it does bridge the gap and it's an assitive device that does work. My dad doesn't have a CI and owns 2 homes, 2 cars, vacations in Italy and Hawaii, I get it. The CI does open doors, and it does take a great deal of work. Just to put on a CI and say" Here you go, work".. isn't going to happen...Speech therapy for my child and many others does not focus on his speech skills or articulation at all... In fact, they should remanme it to say that it's Language therapy, because that is what he learns at speech... language and the meaning behind words. His speech has been in place since he was 5 years old.. now it's working on his language comprehension.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[rick48]

Where did I say that you said that? It is true that there are tons of people who are successful without speech and u say I assume failure? I am totally lost to what your point is.

That is fine about offering her both and I have always advocated to that. Jebus! I am talking about my feelings that it seems like people see the CIs as the only tool for successful spoken language skills . I got that feeling from your statement below...

All I am doing is providing her an opportunity that she wouldn't have without the CI.

Is it the only tool, NO, but for profoundly deaf children WHO DO NOT derive any benefits from HAs, please tell us with your vast experience as an educator of the deaf and as a deaf person without a ci, WHAT TOOL is there presently for these profoundly deaf children THAT IS BETTER THAN A CI for developing and understanding SPOKEN LANGUAGE!

Rick
Caps definitely intended for emphasis!

 

[faire_jour]

I got the feeling that you have very high hopes so I just wanted to ask just in case. Doesnt mean she WILL fail or anything. Every individual benefits from their CIs differently so that's why I asked. I have one student who has great listening skills from his CI but for some reason, he isnt able to develop spoken language. That doesnt mean it is a failure and when I asked you that question, it doesnt mean I assume failure. That's an incorrect assumption you made about me. Maybe to you that would be consider failure but to me, it doesnt.

But, honestly, in my research, those kids are the exceptions. The vast majority of children implanted before age 4-8 (depending on the study) do develop appropriate speech and listening skills.

 

[Daredevel7]

I have never said the CI was a better ticket to life or success... All I have ever maintained is that it does bridge the gap and it's an assitive device that does work. My dad doesn't have a CI and owns 2 homes, 2 cars, vacations in Italy and Hawaii, I get it. The CI does open doors, and it does take a great deal of work. Just to put on a CI and say" Here you go, work".. isn't going to happen...Speech therapy for my child and many others does not focus on his speech skills or articulation at all... In fact, they should remanme it to say that it's Language therapy, because that is what he learns at speech... language and the meaning behind words. His speech has been in place since he was 5 years old.. now it's working on his language comprehension.

This is very true. I watched my speech therapy tapes from when I was 2-5 years old recently and realized that it's very different from the speech therapy I got starting from 5 years old (from a different teacher). In this "speech" therapy when I was 2-5 yrs old, my therapist would have games to make me think. i.e. "This red block is a chair, this blue block is a school, this orange block is a house. Which does not belong?" Sometimes I would know the answer but not the word itself, so I'd pick out chair but I don't know the word, so my therapist would say "A chair is not a building. Say building. Can you give me another example of a building?" So would you call this purely speech therapy anyway?