Observation

[AlleyCat]

That isn't what I said at all. Don't start that again.

And again, who is to pay for all of those acccommodations? The local school system is responsible, and the taxpayers fund the local school system.

Students are not guaranteed any particular accommodation under the law. The LRE is interpreted to be the home school unless it can be shown that they cannot provide accommodation as needed. Then the child will be sent to the closest school that can provide accommodation. For deaf students, if the school is willing to provide an FM system, and the speech therapist determines that the child can function reasonably well with that accommodation, then that is all they will get. Perhaps the school system will also give preferential seating. That is the reality of school placement. Just because accommodation is available does not mean that the school system is required to fund that particular accommodation. They will use the lowest cost accommodation they can to fulfill legal mandates. Period.

Entirely true based off my experience. I did get an interpreter most of the time, however, in addition to what you listed. But for the other 2 deaf girls that were in my high school, they were deemed "hard of hearing" (they had a loss of only about 20 db less than mine, so about 80-90 db; ) they definitely needed more than just an FM and preferred seating. They were completely fluent in ASL as I was, but they did not always get an interpreter. I guess you have to be really deaf to get one!

 

[jillio]

Entirely true based off my experience. I did get an interpreter most of the time, however, in addition to what you listed. But for the other 2 deaf girls that were in my high school, they were deemed "hard of hearing" (they had a loss of only about 20 db less than mine, so about 80-90 db; ) they definitely needed more than just an FM and preferred seating. They were completely fluent in ASL as I was, but they did not always get an interpreter. I guess you have to be really deaf to get one!

And even if you are "really deaf", they rarely provide a terp in the lower grades. Their reasoning: "We will provide a terp when the material gets more difficult.":roll: So, the kid doesn't get the basics, and by the time they are given a terp, there is no way they can get the more advanced material. They were prevented from learning the basics they need to do that.

Unfortuantely, that is the reality of deaf ed in this country. I've been dealing with it for years, beginning with my own child. Nothing much has changed other than the inclusion of bi-bi charter schools. But people are not requesting them as an accommodation for their kid. In fact, if it is suggested, most hearing parents reject it as an option. And yet, it holds more promise for the education of deaf children than anything we have seen to date. Unfortunate that people believe undereducated in an oral environment is better than appropriate education in an environment that uses sign.

 

[AlleyCat]

And even if you are "really deaf", they rarely provide a terp in the lower grades. Their reasoning: "We will provide a terp when the material gets more difficult.":roll: So, the kid doesn't get the basics, and by the time they are given a terp, there is no way they can get the more advanced material. They were prevented from learning the basics they need to do that.

Yes. I got pulled out of my first school to be placed back into my home school district and mainstreamed when I was in 2nd grade. I didn't get an interpreter until 5th grade. (Actually, the last month of 4th grade, but that hardly counts!)

 

[LinuxGold]

Not aware of any particular websites off hand, but all of the charter bi-bi schools in each state have their own websites that can be visited. Additionally, a google search will turn up thousands of websites. One just needs to search under Bi-Bi ed for the deaf.

Shel90 teaches at a bi-bi school and has for several years. I'm sure she could provide you with some contact information or give you more details on the specifics of their program.

The reason why I asked about this is because I went to Crockett school (and Cooper High School) in Abilene, Texas. They have something similar to bi-bi program, fully mainstreamed into hearing classes with terps and speech therapy. Most people who graduated from there does not have "spoken language" in oral sense that fully accommodate them in real life. That was why I was questioning where positive testimonies are.

I do not intend to discredit you or anything, my parents tried everything INCLUDING coed speech to provide me the BEST avenue for my life. I still do not make the full use of my speech even when a lot of people said that I had good speech.

 

[faire_jour]

Nope. They do not pay for the speech therapists and audis at the school. That is paid out of the bi-bi's school budget. They are employees of that school. And they are there to serve all students at the school instead of one or two students, so it is actually more cost effective to provide those services at the bi-bi school.

Transportaion and tuition doesn't add up to even a fraction of the cost of providing the accommodations you have listed.

That depends on the school. Grendel has mentioned that her daughter's bi-bi school costs the tax payers tens of thousands of dollars each year.

 

[jillio]

Yes. I got pulled out of my first school to be placed back into my home school district and mainstreamed when I was in 2nd grade. I didn't get an interpreter until 5th grade. (Actually, the last month of 4th grade, but that hardly counts!)

That is about average. They determine that the material gets tougher at about the 4th grade level, so that is when the terp is needed. They see the kid starting to fall behind at that point, but by the time the kid is showing deficits, it's too late. We have to prevent those deficits, not try to correct them once they are in place.

 

[jillio]

That depends on the school. Grendel has mentioned that her daughter's bi-bi school costs the tax payers tens of thousands of dollars each year.

Tens of thousands for a school full of students vs.tens of thousands for a single student. You do the math.

 

[shel90]

Yup. Oral-only approaches truly suck.
IMO

Yes it does...it sucked the life out of me and many others. Makes learning in the educational setting much harder.

 

[jillio]

The reason why I asked about this is because I went to Crockett school (and Cooper High School) in Abilene, Texas. They have something similar to bi-bi program, fully mainstreamed into hearing classes with terps and speech therapy. Most people who graduated from there does not have "spoken language" in oral sense that fully accommodate them in real life. That was why I was questioning where positive testimonies are.

I do not intend to discredit you or anything, my parents tried everything INCLUDING coed speech to provide me the BEST avenue for my life. I still do not make the full use of my speech even when a lot of people said that I had good speech.

My son got everything, as well. That is what a bi-bi environment is all about. It is just that the focus is more on giving access than worrying about the mode used to present it.

Sounds like you attended a self contained TC program or a split placement. Those were very popular at one time, and were certainly a better alternative than full mainstreaming. But, longitudinally, they have found to have problems that are not evident in a true bi-bi placement. In reality, the true bi-bi placement would include the hearing sibs of the deaf student, or CODAs. Not many have gone that far, but there is a charter school in the northwest, I believe, that does that.

 

[LinuxGold]

My son got everything, as well. That is what a bi-bi environment is all about. It is just that the focus is more on giving access than worrying about the mode used to present it.

Sounds like you attended a self contained TC program. Those were very popular at one time, and were certainly a better alternative than full mainstreaming. But, longitudinally, they have found to have problems that are not evident in a true bi-bi placement. In reality, the true bi-bi placement would include the hearing sibs of the deaf student, or CODAs. Not many have gone that far, but there is a charter school in the northwest, I believe, that does that.

Sorry if I sound so naive, "TC program" -- you meant Total Communication? That is something that I vaguely remember.

 

[AlleyCat]

That is about average. They determine that the material gets tougher at about the 4th grade level, so that is when the terp is needed. They see the kid starting to fall behind at that point, but by the time the kid is showing deficits, it's too late. We have to prevent those deficits, not try to correct them once they are in place.

I think the teacher was starting to figure out why I failed every spelling test. We had those every week. I can't lipread all the words she would say, especially when some words look like another, so how was I supposed to write them down? With an interpreter, the interpreter could sign the word without it becoming cheating. I started passing my tests after!

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

That depends on the school. Grendel has mentioned that her daughter's bi-bi school costs the tax payers tens of thousands of dollars each year.

Tens of thousands for a school full of students vs.tens of thousands for a single student. You do the math.

that was the price per student. You can look around, she has been very forthcoming about the price.

 

[jillio]

Sorry if I sound so naive, "TC program" -- you meant Total Communication? That is something that I vaguely remember.

Yes, total communication. That program came into existence when the failures of the oral philosophy became so glaring that they could not be ignored any more. The concession was to add some sign to the mix. Then the MCEs started being invented. It turned to a confusing hodge podge of this and that.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted



that was the price per student. You can look around, she has been very forthcoming about the price.

You still don't get it. That is the price per student for all of their educational activities. In the mainstream it is that price on top of the price of the costs for the general educational activities. Those costs don't just disappear because the school provides a terp. The accommodation costs are extra.

 

[Banjo]

Yes, total communication. That program came into existence when the failures of the oral philosophy became so glaring that they could not be ignored any more. The concession was to add some sign to the mix. Then the MCEs started being invented. It turned to a confusing hodge podge of this and that.

I grew up in that particular program. It worked somewhat well for me, but it had its own set of problems. Later on, I graduated and entered a school for the deaf where they had a Bi-Bi system. The issue with the system was that they had weak standards. A lot of things happened, they let it slip through their fingers. Not at the fault of the system but at the power-that-be for letting it happen.

Shameful.

 

[jillio]

I grew up in that particular program. It worked somewhat well for me, but it had its own set of problems. Later on, I graduated and entered a school for the deaf where they had a Bi-Bi system. The issue with the system was that they had weak standards. A lot of things happened, they let it slip through their fingers. Not at the fault of the system but at the power-that-be for letting it happen.

Shameful.

Agreed. And TC did work well for some...or so they thought until they were shown an alternative that actually addressed their needs better.

 

[LinuxGold]

I grew up in that particular program. It worked somewhat well for me, but it had its own set of problems. Later on, I graduated and entered a school for the deaf where they had a Bi-Bi system. The issue with the system was that they had weak standards. A lot of things happened, they let it slip through their fingers. Not at the fault of the system but at the power-that-be for letting it happen.

Shameful.

power-that-be -- like?

 

[GrendelQ]

Wirelessly posted



that was the price per student. You can look around, she has been very forthcoming about the price.

Currently, per student: ~ $65K per year paid by my local school district ($20 - $25K /year for transportation) as long as placement is agreed to by local school and directed by IEP. If not, we would need to pick it up in full.

 

[jillio]

I think the teacher was starting to figure out why I failed every spelling test. We had those every week. I can't lipread all the words she would say, especially when some words look like another, so how was I supposed to write them down? With an interpreter, the interpreter could sign the word without it becoming cheating. I started passing my tests after!

LOL. I talked to a deaf student one time that used to sign "Fingerspell, please." to his terp during spelling tests! Naturally, he passed them all with flying colors. Terp wasn't thinking and neither was the teacher, evidently.

 

[jillio]

Currently, per student: ~ $65K per year paid by my local school district ($20 - $25K /year for transportation) as long as placement is agreed to by local school and directed by IEP. If not, we would need to pick it up in full.

Thank you. That is an all inclusive cost. The cost of accomodation in the mainstream is in addition to the educational costs already in place.

And true...without an IEP directing the placement, the parent is responsible for the costs. Unless they choose to pay the cost, they are stuck with whatever accommodation the local system decides to provide.