Mother of 7 y/o Deaf girl

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deafdyke said:
The fact that they cannot function except with HA/CI? The fact that social emoitional development is limited to the hearing world? Social emoitional issues with oral/mainstreamed kids are VERY well known but seem to be brushed under the table by pro oralists, the fact that kids' ALL over development is STUNTED b/c a child has to work so hard by only depending on their weakest sense?!?!?! Imagine being denied your glasses and being told you could only do stuff without your glasses b/c "you have residual vision" and you don't "need" glasses. Imagine how burnt out you'd be? Same thing. The fact that they are taught to idealize "like hearing" as the Ulimate Ideal? Isn't that unhealthy? Wouldn't that lead to self loathing and major self esteem issues? How come it's universally considered unhealthy to teach girls to idealize unrealistic beauty ideals but it's considered desirable to get a dhh kid to function exactly like hearing kids?
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In what way are they stunted? That is why we look at social development and advocacy. It is critical that social/emotional and cognition are always kept in mind.

Actually, wearing my glasses is like using assistive technology. It would be like you taking away my glasses and teaching me braille instead.
 
meaning ... hearing people THINK that handicaps are broken. Father in heaven MADE US THIS WAY, but that seems to bother you hearing people that you just can't simply accept us for who we are! Go figure! We can scream at the top of our LUNGS and you hearing people STILL won't hear us. Looks like you guys are the ones that are deaf/hoh... NOT US! lol!!!!

Remember Moses? Shutter Father use him! Remember Noah? He was an Albino/ couldnt think for himself, Father use him, Remember Lot/ He couldn't use his legs when he ran from Sodom and Gomorrah and he outran everyone... Father use him!
SO you see. It's not us that is broken. Father never saw us as BROKEN! We will lead again! Mark my words.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
When did I say anything like that?
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That is the THEORY behind oralism and mainstreaming, that by being oral and mainstreamed a dhh kid will "automaticly get a better education" Unfortuantly that theory doesn't work when oral/mainstreamed kids are getting certificates of attendance, are in remedial classes etc. You act like you never thought of it that way.
 
deafdyke said:
That is the THEORY behind oralism and mainstreaming, that by being oral and mainstreamed a dhh kid will "automaticly get a better education" Unfortuantly that theory doesn't work when oral/mainstreamed kids are getting certificates of attendance, are in remedial classes etc. You act like you never thought of it that way.
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No, that isn't. People choose the mainstream for a variety of reasons. Have you ever asked parents why they chose the placement that their child is in?
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
In what way are they stunted? That is why we look at social development and advocacy. It is critical that social/emotional and cognition are always kept in mind.

Actually, wearing my glasses is like using assistive technology. It would be like you taking away my glasses and teaching me braille instead.
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Um in basicly EVERY single way a kid can be socially stunted?!!? That comment is pretty much proof you're NOT as well versed in Deaf ed as you claim. Go to the Clarke School Mainstream conference sometime. That's a HUGE HUGE topic. Despite what Warren Estrabrooks and the rest of the "AVT allows dhh kids to magiclly assimulate into the mainstream" gang claim, dhh oral and mainstreamed kids STRUGGLE socially BIG TIME in the hearing world! There's a TON of research and literature about it. And you COMPLETELY miss my point! Most people with refractory issues can see perfectly with glasses. They don't even need large print.. But just imagine there was a school of thought that refused to let you wear glasses and INSISTED on only letting you use your residual sight b/c that was enough ..But HAs and CIs do NOT give perfect hearing .....People who are advocating for ASL aren't advocating for it INSTEAD of speech.....but in ADDITION TO speech so the child has a range of tools to chose from. The world is NOT a soundbooth!
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
No, that isn't. People choose the mainstream for a variety of reasons. Have you ever asked parents why they chose the placement that their child is in?
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That is the EDCATIONAL theory behind oralism and mainstreaming. As in the ones taught in TOD courses. Most parents of dhh kids don't actively choose for their kid to be mainstreamed...Most of them aren't even aware schools or programs for dhh kids even exist b/c of our educational system's fixtation on inclusion as the be all and end all!
 
deafdyke said:
Um in basicly EVERY single way a kid can be socially stunted?!!? That comment is pretty much proof you're NOT as well versed in Deaf ed as you claim. Go to the Clarke School Mainstream conference sometime. That's a HUGE HUGE topic. Despite what Warren Estrabrooks and the rest of the "AVT allows dhh kids to magiclly assimulate into the mainstream" gang claim, dhh oral and mainstreamed kids STRUGGLE socially BIG TIME in the hearing world! There's a TON of research and literature about it. And you COMPLETELY miss my point! Most people with refractory issues can see perfectly with glasses. They don't even need large print.. But just imagine there was a school of thought that refused to let you wear glasses and INSISTED on only letting you use your residual sight b/c that was enough ..But HAs and CIs do NOT give perfect hearing .....People who are advocating for ASL aren't advocating for it INSTEAD of speech.....but in ADDITION TO speech so the child has a range of tools to chose from. The world is NOT a soundbooth!
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I have been to both a Clarke conference and the Success for Kids with Hearing Loss conference. They both are about students in inclusive settings. I have also worked as an itinerant personally.
 
deafdyke said:
That is the EDCATIONAL theory behind oralism and mainstreaming. As in the ones taught in TOD courses. Most parents of dhh kids don't actively choose for their kid to be mainstreamed...Most of them aren't even aware schools or programs for dhh kids even exist b/c of our educational system's fixtation on inclusion as the be all and end all!
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Have you attended any teacher preparations programs and know what is actually said in the classes?
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
Have you attended any teacher preparations programs and know what is actually said in the classes?
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I have! And she's right.

Speaking of attending teacher prep programs, teaching, being an early home interventionist, etc. I'm curious how you manage at least 2 full time jobs plus all these trainings that you say you go to, plus your supposed PhD program, plus commenting on here endlessly day in and day out.

All the people I know who work for Child Find and/or CSDB doing in home intervention with children and families from birth to age 3, work way over 40 hours a week, when you combine travel, training specifically for their job and then of course their caseload of dozens and dozens of families (they're all overworked). One early home interventionist I know was also my ASL professor at one point and she could only teach that one class, at night, once a week, she was way too busy otherwise. That's pretty similar for all the people I know who work in that field.

Add that to your teaching, that's another full time job and then some by itself. All the SPED, Deaf Ed and even non specialized teachers I know work more than 40 hours a week, When I was a special needs liaison at one of our local Head Start preschool programs, me and all the other teachers at our site worked more than 40 hours a week. We had state trainings, early morning school meetings, at home and in class parent meetings, planning and organizing and even buying supplies with our own money. I was taking a couple extra classes at our local community college along with some of the other teachers and TAs. But again those were at night and we only took one or two courses. One of the ECE courses included the time we spent in the classroom. A couple teachers worked part time jobs at night or on the weekend bartending, serving and/or babysitting, but not an additional But no one could pull what is essentially an additional full time and then some job.

On top of that being a PhD candidate? That by itself is a full time job. What's the title of your dissertation? And you're getting a PhD right, not a different doctoral degree?

Then you have time to travel and attend all these various conferences, then on top of that spend time here responding to each and every comment (well respond might not be the right word because you don't answer any point that's critical of you or your argument and instead you change the topic entirely, but that's an issue of semantics not applicable to my point here)

Am I missing anything? I just want to make sure I understand exactly all the things you do and jobs you have.
 
zeefour
I am under the impression that all of the experience Teacherofthedeaf has described has happened over years. Not all at the same time.
 
zeefour said:
I have! And she's right.

Speaking of attending teacher prep programs, teaching, being an early home interventionist, etc. I'm curious how you manage at least 2 full time jobs plus all these trainings that you say you go to, plus your supposed PhD program, plus commenting on here endlessly day in and day out.

All the people I know who work for Child Find and/or CSDB doing in home intervention with children and families from birth to age 3, work way over 40 hours a week, when you combine travel, training specifically for their job and then of course their caseload of dozens and dozens of families (they're all overworked). One early home interventionist I know was also my ASL professor at one point and she could only teach that one class, at night, once a week, she was way too busy otherwise. That's pretty similar for all the people I know who work in that field.

Add that to your teaching, that's another full time job and then some by itself. All the SPED, Deaf Ed and even non specialized teachers I know work more than 40 hours a week, When I was a special needs liaison at one of our local Head Start preschool programs, me and all the other teachers at our site worked more than 40 hours a week. We had state trainings, early morning school meetings, at home and in class parent meetings, planning and organizing and even buying supplies with our own money. I was taking a couple extra classes at our local community college along with some of the other teachers and TAs. But again those were at night and we only took one or two courses. One of the ECE courses included the time we spent in the classroom. A couple teachers worked part time jobs at night or on the weekend bartending, serving and/or babysitting, but not an additional But no one could pull what is essentially an additional full time and then some job.

On top of that being a PhD candidate? That by itself is a full time job. What's the title of your dissertation? And you're getting a PhD right, not a different doctoral degree?

Then you have time to travel and attend all these various conferences, then on top of that spend time here responding to each and every comment (well respond might not be the right word because you don't answer any point that's critical of you or your argument and instead you change the topic entirely, but that's an issue of semantics not applicable to my point here)

Am I missing anything? I just want to make sure I understand exactly all the things you do and jobs you have.
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I don't have two jobs. I work in a private school and we serve students from birth to age 8. I have worked in other schools and districts in the past. I said that I have been an itinerant in the past. My career requires continuing education units, so I must attend trainings to keep my credential. My school hours are 8:45-3:00 and I have lunch and a one hour prep. I am very lucky that my school is very supportive and well funded. I have the opportunity to attend workshops, increase my education and have the supplies I need.

You have attended teacher preparation classes that said that children with hearing loss receive a better education in the mainstream than in other settings? What shitty program was that? There are dozens of factors that must go into placement considerations and that could never be assumed.

As I said before, I have just recently begun my PhD program. I have begun my dissertation as I am still in year one.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
I have been to both a Clarke conference and the Success for Kids with Hearing Loss conference. They both are about students in inclusive settings. I have also worked as an itinerant personally.
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YES. A BIG issue at the Clarke School conference is DUM DUM DUM.....SOCIAL ISSUES! Or did you just go to the (completly nonrelvant to the students) workshops to pick up some hours? You know, the workshops on issues that oral teachers find interesting but have no real relavance to their students' REAL LIVES?!?!?!?
 
Jane B. said:
zeefour
I am under the impression that all of the experience Teacherofthedeaf has described has happened over years. Not all at the same time.
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Funny that she uses present tense to describe all these lofty accomplishments that often seem to first arise to supercede the CV of an individual she disagrees with.

Either my original point remains or I guess being hearing doesn't make your basic language skills superior. Your choice.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
You have attended teacher preparation classes that said that children with hearing loss receive a better education in the mainstream than in other settings? What shitty program was that? There are dozens of factors that must go into placement considerations and that could never be assumed.

.
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How about ALL of them?!?!?! Inclusion is being PUSHED as the ANSWER for ALL kids with disabilties including dhh!
 
deafdyke said:
And you do know that it's no longer 1974 anymore and that mainstreamed and oral kids don't automaticly go to Harvard right? Know what I LOVE? How oralists seem to think ALL hearing schools are excellent. I love how they forget that there's inner city, poor rural schools. Even in the ideal placement (suburban wealthy) schools there's low expectations, Resource Room etc
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Preach girl! I used sign language (not ASL but I started in the early 90s any sign then in mainstreamed public schools was big) and went to an Ivy on scholarship. But yeah tell me about all those superior hearing peers of mine :)
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
I have been to both a Clarke conference and the Success for Kids with Hearing Loss conference. They both are about students in inclusive settings. I have also worked as an itinerant personally.
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Did they tell you about the older dhh mainstreamed teen boys who are so lonely they seek the services of "professionals?" You really should read up a LOT in this area...It's VERY relevant and you're not doing anyone any favors by pretending, it doesn't exist. Great the AVT and auditory oral brigade didn't tell you this is an area of concern. Don't waffle and pretend everything's fine.
 
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