Is mainstream good for deaf?

jillio said:
:gpost::gpost: How many times do people have to say it before we open our eyes to reality?
Click to expand...

I have no idea, Jillio. And, this was from my own experiences and what I witnessed prior to 21 years ago. I don't know what has happened since I graduated and left the school system behind. I can imagine it's probably hell for those students plodding along barely getting by, or those who are lonely, because they have few friends to hang out with.

It's a sad situation.

As people have eluded to, SOME do very well, but we shouldn't assume that all will have the same experiences. The majority of us don't! We get by, but we don't thrive.

Speaking from my own experience, I would probably have done extremely well with a self paced type class like was offered in the college I went to. But, because I wasn't offered a self paced course load and had to do the same amount of work as the other students, I struggled. It wasn't *as bad* for me, because I could hear my teachers in all situations, but I know for a fact that my deaf and HoH peers struggled more than I did.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I have no idea, Jillio. And, this was from my own experiences and what I witnessed prior to 21 years ago. I don't know what has happened since I graduated and left the school system behind. I can imagine it's probably hell for those students plodding along barely getting by, or those who are lonely, because they have few friends to hang out with.

It's a sad situation.

As people have eluded to, SOME do very well, but we shouldn't assume that all will have the same experiences. The majority of us don't! We get by, but we don't thrive.

Speaking from my own experience, I would probably have done extremely well with a self paced type class like was offered in the college I went to. But, because I wasn't offered a self paced course load and had to do the same amount of work as the other students, I struggled. It wasn't *as bad* for me, because I could hear my teachers in all situations, but I know for a fact that my deaf and HoH peers struggled more than I did.
Click to expand...

With the overcrowding problem, NCLB, and budget cuts, I can only imagine that it probably has gotten worse.
 
The Highlander said:
In my opinion, I think a lot of deaf students were pushed through the system when growing up in the mainstreamed school. I have met a lot of deaf people and makes me wonder how the hell they got the chance in graduating. Personally, I believe in some situations, where the unfortunate deaf people are allowed to pass with flying colors for one of the reasons that teachers find it difficult to work with them in bringing them on the the level where hearing students were at. I know someone who claims and have seen that he obtained As in most of his classes in mainstreamed and has attended college, resulting in failure. He claimed that these classes were so difficult and he was evaluated of his intelligence, language capacity, only to discovered that he had 3rd and 4th grade level. This is one of the examples that a deaf student MAY not benefit from mainstreamed school. Remember I am not speaking for every deaf students that attended mainstreamed schools, but to point out one of the scenarios that can occur out there.
Click to expand...
Actually, it depends on how they are taught. If deaf students are treated like every other hearing student (with the exception of accommodations), then deaf students can do well like hearing students.

Myself, along with 2 other deaf students, were treated like hearing students. We did have interpreters in our classes, but other than that... we were graded fairly as if we were hearing students. Our assignments were the same as hearing students. If we did bad, we received a flunking grade... like hearing students. In fact, I actually failed one semester and took summer school for it to catch up. I ended up getting a 'B' for summer school and got back on track. All 3 of us graduated with everything at 12th-grade level.

Some of the other deaf students were treated as hearing students, but the director of the deaf department would modify their grades so that they all received passing grades. Of course, their report cards would say... "Grades Modified". Those deaf students never understood what that meant, but they would go walking around bragging about how they passed their classes and showed off their report cards in front of everyone else. Little did they know, they were actually making themselves look bad.

Why did the director do that? Was it because of pressure by the parents or was she covering up for herself so that she could prove that her students could graduate?
 
Meggie2 said:
Yes they are. Some more than others.
Click to expand...

That's true for some deaf people...their math skills are far superior than their reading/writing skills. I am just not one of them. I really struggle when it comes to math especially at the college level. I am good at algebra though. :)
 
The Highlander said:
Seems to me that some deaf students are a bit more superior in their math skills than English in some ways
Click to expand...
Math is easier to do well at for deaf people cuz math is based on the black & white concept. Reading and writing is based on the gray concept.

What is the black & white concept? Well, there's only one WHITE and one BLACK. Therefore, the answer is either right or wrong. 1 + 1 = 2. Any other answer would be wrong. Simple as that.

What is the gray concept? Well, there are many different shades of gray. Some grays are darker and close to black and some grays are lighter and close to white. That means, you can be close to right or close to wrong... it just depends on how you write and read.

A lot of people would say that this is because of ASL. ASL does not affect your math skills. (It will likely affect your word problem skills, but not basic number skills.) I could sign, "TWO PLUS TWO. WHAT?" There is no other answer but "FOUR." With reading and writing, a person who doesn't fully understand proper vocabulary, grammar, and English... will struggle with getting it right.
 
VamPyroX said:
Math is easier to do well at for deaf people cuz math is based on the black & white concept. Reading and writing is based on the gray concept.

What is the black & white concept? Well, there's only one WHITE and one BLACK. Therefore, the answer is either right or wrong. 1 + 1 = 2. Any other answer would be wrong. Simple as that.

What is the gray concept? Well, there are many different shades of gray. Some grays are darker and close to black and some grays are lighter and close to white. That means, you can be close to right or close to wrong... it just depends on how you write and read.

A lot of people would say that this is because of ASL. ASL does not affect your math skills. (It will likely affect your word problem skills, but not basic number skills.) I could sign, "TWO PLUS TWO. WHAT?" There is no other answer but "FOUR." With reading and writing, a person who doesn't fully understand proper vocabulary, grammar, and English... will struggle with getting it right.
Click to expand...


Do you actually read or "listen" to what you just said. Do you actually enjoy trying to make yourself into something that you are not?
 
VamPyroX said:
Math is easier to do well at for deaf people cuz math is based on the black & white concept. Reading and writing is based on the gray concept.

What is the black & white concept? Well, there's only one WHITE and one BLACK. Therefore, the answer is either right or wrong. 1 + 1 = 2. Any other answer would be wrong. Simple as that.

What is the gray concept? Well, there are many different shades of gray. Some grays are darker and close to black and some grays are lighter and close to white. That means, you can be close to right or close to wrong... it just depends on how you write and read.

A lot of people would say that this is because of ASL. ASL does not affect your math skills. (It will likely affect your word problem skills, but not basic number skills.) I could sign, "TWO PLUS TWO. WHAT?" There is no other answer but "FOUR." With reading and writing, a person who doesn't fully understand proper vocabulary, grammar, and English... will struggle with getting it right.
Click to expand...



eeeh..today's math is not based on just computation anymore. There is more language involved in the math curriculm than 20 years ago. Kids have to explain why and how they solved each problem they way they did. The standardizing tests require the kids to write an explaination of how they solved each problem and why. That starts in 3rd grade. This year, teaching math was a challenge cuz I had to teach my kids to think critically which is not an easy task to do but so far, my class has done well. :) The days of simple computation are over. LOL!

That's why my daughter is struggling with math cuz she doesnt have a strong foundation in math to begin with. She changed schools so I guess her old school did a bad job setting that foundation when she was young so she has been playing catch up with her peers for the past few years. We even got tutors.
 
Bottesini said:
That is best thing I remember. My parents always standing up for me. It was important and I bet your son won't forget either. (From different thread, but I am female. Spread the word.):ty:
Click to expand...

Hey, its what we are supposed to do as parents. But thank you.

I'll relate a quick story that happened recently that brought tears to my eyes. I was doing a presentation for an education class on teaching tolerance to K-6 grade students as part of a school counselor curriculum. My son happened to have come home the day I did the presentation, and he went with me to the class. He sat through the whole thing, and afterwards, as I was discussing the curriculum with the students, and talking about ways that it could be incorporated outside the classroom as well, my son raised his hand and asked if he could speak. He then told everyone that he had experienced some teasing and bullying because of his deafness, but that I had taught him to be proud of himself no matter what other people did or said, and that's what got him through it. He said "I might be deaf but my mom taught me that I am just as good as everyone else, so when she tellls you this is the way to deal with this stuff in schools, you should listen to her." I don't think I have ever been prouder of him than at that minute.
 
shel90 said:
That's true for some deaf people...their math skills are far superior than their reading/writing skills. I am just not one of them. I really struggle when it comes to math especially at the college level. I am good at algebra though. :)
Click to expand...

You know, the way an algebraic equation is set up,the syntax is very similar to ASL syntax. I mean, you have to read the equation in the same sequence that you would read someone signing an ASL sentence. Maybe that's why.
 
Being in mainstream, it's not always deaf who are good in math than english, I spend my life in school with some deaf students.

It end up that I'm good in math and and he isn't. Yet, he or she is better in English than I do. Maybe I'm in different city, different state.

I'm still learn in English as I'm continues to typing something as I enjoy.
 
jillio said:
I had a principal tell me the same thing about my son. I told them then he'd better get used to me being in his office every day raising hell!
Click to expand...

Good for you,jillio. You're son has a great mom. :)
 
Mizzou said:
No one is HOH or Deaf..... it is always Deaf! lolz
Click to expand...

I don't quite understand that comment. Anyone can call themselves what they want. We've had that discussion elsewhere already.

Anyways, I was mainstreamed all my school years. I was in a different school from K-2 with about 8 or 9 other deaf students, and that was fun. 3rd grade and on, I was in my own home school district with no other deaf students. (the K-2 was outside my home school district) and that was TOUGH. I was bullied, picked on, everything. Socially, it was a disaster. My parents refused to consider anything else, stating that education above all else was the most important. I did graduate with honors and did very well academically, but the social ineptitude it left me with still sticks with me today. I chose RIT for college because of the NTID program and knew there would be many (thousands) of deafies I could socialize with. It did help tremendously to bring me out my shell, but ... it's still tough to be mainstreamed with no other deafies.
 
Experienced bullying as well. School sucked, to be honest. Not just for me, but for a lot of kids in the so-called mainstream.
Click to expand...
OMG YES.
Parents, adminstrators etc are SO fucking naive. You read Exceptional Parent, and the manuals......they seem to think that once a kid is integrated into a classroom academicly, you don't have to worry about friendships.
The only thing that matters is academics. It wasn't nessarily straight out bullying.....more like this whitebread generic suburban "we're better then you" attitude. Some of the shit I went through in school was almost totally sociopathic. I would LOVE for the "experts" to have received an obscene letter, I would LOVE for the "experts" to be told "You suck!" when doing nothing more then walking on the side of the road. I would LOVE for the "experts" to have been thought of as retarded simply b/c of the way they talked. I would love for the "experts" to experiance things like always getting picked last in gym, or sitting alone at the lunch table. I would LOVE for the "experts" to feel like they didn't fit in.....I would LOVE for the "experts" to feel sucidal and islolated adrift from people. I would LOVE for the "experts" to experiance being told "Oh you're smart.....why aren't you doing better in school?" when they didn't even give me decent accomondations? (and as a matter of fact, in college I started doing well...like DEANS LIST when I was given the right accomondations. I really do think that if I'd been in a school where I got the right accomondations, I would be working on my Ph.D by now, and I wouldn't have depression and bipolar)

Yes, my experiances may seem extreme. But you know what? THIS SORT OF STUFF HAPPENS FAR TOO OFTEN!!!! I deal with the emotional aftereffects (I really do think that my mainstream experiance triggered my depression/bipolar)
OceanBreeze, you may have graduated twenty years ago......but things are still very much the same.
I think a lot of deaf students were pushed through the system when growing up in the mainstreamed school
Click to expand...
Yes indeedy. Social promotion....happens to hearies too!
 
deafdyke said:
OMG YES.
Parents, adminstrators etc are SO fucking naive. You read Exceptional Parent, and the manuals......they seem to think that once a kid is integrated into a classroom academicly, you don't have to worry about friendships.
The only thing that matters is academics. It wasn't nessarily straight out bullying.....more like this whitebread generic suburban "we're better then you" attitude. Some of the shit I went through in school was almost totally sociopathic. I would LOVE for the "experts" to have received an obscene letter, I would LOVE for the "experts" to be told "You suck!" when doing nothing more then walking on the side of the road. I would LOVE for the "experts" to have been thought of as retarded simply b/c of the way they talked. I would love for the "experts" to experiance things like always getting picked last in gym, or sitting alone at the lunch table. I would LOVE for the "experts" to feel like they didn't fit in.....I would LOVE for the "experts" to feel sucidal and islolated adrift from people. I would LOVE for the "experts" to experiance being told "Oh you're smart.....why aren't you doing better in school?" when they didn't even give me decent accomondations? (and as a matter of fact, in college I started doing well...like DEANS LIST when I was given the right accomondations. I really do think that if I'd been in a school where I got the right accomondations, I would be working on my Ph.D by now, and I wouldn't have depression and bipolar)

Yes, my experiances may seem extreme. But you know what? THIS SORT OF STUFF HAPPENS FAR TOO OFTEN!!!! I deal with the emotional aftereffects (I really do think that my mainstream experiance triggered my depression/bipolar)
OceanBreeze, you may have graduated twenty years ago......but things are still very much the same.
Yes indeedy. Social promotion....happens to hearies too!
Click to expand...

Maybe, but you're not alone. My first year of mainstreaming was third grade. The stories I could tell from that year alone, would make the average person cry.

But, Deafdyke... Your school experience didn't cause bipolar disorder. It may have aggravated it, but it didn't cause it. But, I get what you're saying.... Trauma in any form causes a bunch of problems that we need not have to deal with if we're only provided with the means to function in the environment we're in.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
Maybe, but you're not alone. My first year of mainstreaming was third grade. The stories I could tell from that year alone, would make the average person cry.

But, Deafdyke... Your school experience didn't cause bipolar disorder. It may have aggravated it, but it didn't cause it. But, I get what you're saying.... Trauma in any form causes a bunch of problems that we need not have to deal with if we're only provided with the means to function in the environment we're in.
Click to expand...

I concur with you here. I have an OCD which I do not want to discuss here and my family's reaction to it and my undx'd addhd made my mainstream experience much worse than it should have been. I didn't even tell anyone about it till this forum and I found out that my experience seem to have been much worse than what many of them went through. Mainstream didn't cause my OCD but it certainly made a bad situation much worse than it should've been.
 
Back
Top