giving up on asl

[shel90]

having bad experience with 1 or 2 deaf people do not necessarily mean the whole deaf community won't accept you. i live in canada, but i socialize in many different deaf communities across the country and in usa and it is true in most places. a good example can be found right here...there are many us that are deaf and responding positively to your thread.

Exactly! When I first started trying to immerse myself in the Deaf community, it was in Phx and I was rejected right there due to my history of looking down on them growing up. I moved to MD to got to Gallaudet and yes, I did encounter a lot of peeps who judged me by how I signed and so on but my brother told me not to give up on the Deaf community and ignore them. He was right..I have now my circle of friends in the Deaf community. I am not friends with everyone in the Deaf community cuz there are some people whom I am not interested in associating with and i am sure there are people who feel the same about me.

 

[shel90]

yeah i agree. i think deaf kids should be taking asl classes as a requirement. then they can choose later if they want it part of their life or not. this brings us to the greatest irony that asl classes are readily available to hearing students but not to deaf students. this parallels to teaching hearing babies asl but not deaf babies.

There is a video by a woman named Amy Cohen, I believe, which is called the Greatest Irony. I really think the whole thing is just a big shame but not gonna go there.

 

[jillio]

i don't get your point? I support deaf teachers.

i was just saying that asl classes are not always available to deaf students as they are to hearing students. the classes were set up as a 2nd language option for hearing students to learn. it never occurred to the teacher of the deaf, to encourage their deaf students to take the class because they assume that since they are fluent, it is not worth it for them to take the classes but that is not true. it would have been nice to learn asl structure in a formal setting.

Bingo! We teach hearing students English grammar, and they are fluent in the language before starting school. They are already able to form grammatically correct sentences. Why are we not doing the same for deaf students?

 

[missywinks]

I was an oralist for a long time until high school...and finally took formal ASL classes in college.

It was not easy but in the end it was all worth it. I only use speech with my family, on a as-needed-basis. Other than that - I use ASL, Signed English, and the old-fashioned pen/paper method.

Keep on truckin', dude.

 

[jasin]

And if you don't understand the complexity of the grammar, and the sophistication of the language, you don't understand ASL at all.

Not entirely true. Some deafs do understand basic ASL grammar, but it like comes out naturally when they're signing. They sign it or incorporate it naturally in their signing.

 

[missywinks]

Bingo! We teach hearing students English grammar, and they are fluent in the language before starting school. They are already able to form grammatically correct sentences. Why are we not doing the same for deaf students?

exactly.

 

[jasin]

Bingo! We teach hearing students English grammar, and they are fluent in the language before starting school. They are already able to form grammatically correct sentences. Why are we not doing the same for deaf students?

Depends on the school, how the student is taught, and where the student lives. Not all deaf everywhere are taught English first. Furthermore, a deaf does not need to know English or have good English grammar skills to sign or learn American Sign language.

 

[jillio]

Not entirely true. Some deafs do understand basic ASL grammar, but it like comes out naturally when they're signing. They sign it or incorporate it naturally in their signing.

Yes, they have an intuitive understanding, which, in the long run, does them far more good as far as using language creatively and for function and cognitive processes than does memorizing grammar from a book. You are confusing being able to articulate grammar with having an intuitive understanding of grammar.

 

[jillio]

Depends on the school, how the student is taught, and where the student lives. Not all deaf everywhere are taught English first. Furthermore, a deaf does not need to know English or have good English grammar skills to sign or learn American Sign language.

I was talking about hearing students and English and deaf students and ASL.

 

[jasin]

Yes, they have an intuitive understanding, which, in the long run, does them far more good as far as using language creatively and for function and cognitive processes than does memorizing grammar from a book. You are confusing being able to articulate grammar with having an intuitive understanding of grammar.

I said some, not all. There are many deaf I have met that don't understand the grammar, even naturally or signing naturally.

 

[jasin]

I was talking about hearing students and English and deaf students and ASL.

That's a bit off topic anyways.

 

[missywinks]

There is a video by a woman named Amy Cohen, I believe, which is called the Greatest Irony. I really think the whole thing is just a big shame but not gonna go there.

I like Amy! She has lots of good vlogs.

 

[jillio]

I said some, not all. There are many deaf I have met that don't understand the grammar, even when they are signing naturally.

What exactly do you mean by "understanding the grammar"? If they are communicating in ASL, they understand the grammar on an intuitive level, or they would not be able to connect 2 signs into a coherent statement.

The main reason for teaching grammar is to teach hearing people and those coming to ASL as a second language how to formulate communication in the same way that native signers do it intuitively. They already have the structure internalized. That is why we base sign language studies on native signers.

 

[jillio]

That's a bit off topic anyways.

No, it isn't. I was agreeing with and expanding on missywink's statement. She understood me perfectly judging from her reply.

 

[missywinks]

I said some, not all. There are many deaf I have met that don't understand the grammar, even naturally or signing naturally.

same can be said for hearing people and their english. it all depends on the person's upbringing and educational exposure.

 

[jasin]

I remember a deaf the other day, friend of one of my friends, who tried correcting my signing. He tried telling me I was not signing in ASL and my signing was See. Yet, he himself could not even sign correctly "4 on the hour" and did not know the sign for Signed English. He could not tell me why I was supposedly not signing in ASL either; He just simply said it was See not ASL. I personally find stuff like that to be insulting.

 

[jillio]

I remember a deaf the other day, friend of one of my friends, who tried correcting my signing. He tried telling me I was not signing in ASL and my signing was See. Yet, he himself could not even sign correctly "4 on the hour" and did not know the sign for Signed English. He could not tell me why I was supposedly not signing in ASL either; He just simply said it was See not ASL. I personally find stuff like that to be insulting.

He could tell you it wasn't correct because he had already internalized the grammatical structure of ASL. And why would he know the sign for Signed English? He signs ASL.

The problem here is you are trying to convince people that you know more about a language that you have been trying to learn for 2 years than they know about a language they have been using all of their lives. It's like going to Spain after 2 semesters of Spanish, and telling the Spanish speaking people that they don't know how to use their own language.

 

[missywinks]

I wonder if the issue is you are having a hard time accepting feedback? especially from someone who you really don't know?

 

[jasin]

No, it isn't. I was agreeing with and expanding on missywink's statement. She understood me perfectly judging from her reply.

It is off-topic and I should know because I created it. The topic, in a broader sense, is about me and my difficulties in integrating into the deaf world. Please get back on topic.

 

[jasin]

He could tell you it wasn't correct because he had already internalized the grammatical structure of ASL. And why would he know the sign for Signed English? He signs ASL.

The problem here is you are trying to convince people that you know more about a language that you have been trying to learn for 2 years than they know about a language they have been using all of their lives. It's like going to Spain after 2 semesters of Spanish, and telling the Spanish speaking people that they don't know how to use their own language.

There is a sign for signed English in ASL. If he knows ASL I would assume he should know that sign.