For those who suport NCLB..take a hard look at this cartoon

It would be ideal if deaf children could be left to their own devices once they learn ASL. I can see a typical classroom which may seem "disorganized:" some would discuss one subject and others would tell stories, and perhaps English would happen to be mentioned. That would get some children interested, and they would help each other get better at using it. They would express creative ways of doing it.
That is far better than what they do today, seat them in rows and tell them to just shut up and pay attention to the teacher.
But what do I know? I have never taught a class other than ASL.
 
Deafguy25 said:
If they don't have proficiency in English, they can't read or write. I am not suggesting they have to learn to speak, but I can not believe there are people who are actually ok with illiterate children. :shock:
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I am one of a bunch of people that lives in an area with a massive Hispanic/Latino community. Some have hearing losses and some don't. They are all proficient in written English skills, their respective Spanish skills, both verbal and written, as well as ASL and their respective origins sign, such as ASL or Mexican. They do not speak verbally in English. Even with our public or private school system, they use ASL or speak Spanish. Therefore, they ARE NOT illiterate just because they cannot speak in English.
 
KristinaB said:
I am one of a bunch of people that lives in an area with a massive Hispanic/Latino community. Some have hearing losses and some don't. They are all proficient in written English skills, their respective Spanish skills, both verbal and written, as well as ASL and their respective origins sign, such as ASL or Mexican. They do not speak verbally in English. Even with our public or private school system, they use ASL or speak Spanish. Therefore, they ARE NOT illiterate just because they cannot speak in English.
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I believe that Deafguy was referring specifically to children within the United States who are not proficient in English. From his subsequent post, he clarified that he is referring to specifically the written form of English, not speech.
 
posts from hell said:
I was talking world wide, look at all the languages used by people out there.. Sorry to tell you, primary English usage only compromises .058% of the world population.

It's time for us to stop being all gung-ho on English.

Again, the point of this thread, NCLB is not friendly towards all students.
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Given that the significant majority in the United States utilizes English as their main language, and that all students are expected to have some mastery of it (beyond just passing tests, one needs the ability here in the U.S. To read signs, menu's, books, legal contracts etc. In English), why would one denigrate it's importance here... In the United States where we have this silly little thing called, "No Child Left Behind"?
 
CSign said:
Given that the significant majority in the United States utilizes English as their main language, and that all students are expected to have some mastery of it (beyond just passing tests, one needs the ability here in the U.S. To read signs, menu's, books, legal contracts etc. In English), why would one denigrate it's importance here... In the United States where we have this silly little thing called, "No Child Left Behind"?
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oh ok
 
CSign said:
[/B]

I believe that Deafguy was referring specifically to children within the United States who are not proficient in English. From his subsequent post, he clarified that he is referring to specifically the written form of English, not speech.
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Why are you jumping in to try and "help" the poor deaf guy, again?
 
CSign said:
The thing is, NCLB only applies to students within the United States which is what Shel is referring to.
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And the same hearing people come in here and pound their chests on English.... How I long for a day when the hearing people recognize the errors of their ways.
 
CSign said:
The thing is, NCLB only applies to students within the United States which is what Shel is referring to.
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Well - a lot of the Mexicans here that are legal US citizens are threatening to send their children back to family in Mexico due to the NCLB act, saying their children will get a better education and be happier where it isn't in force.

In my case, the NCLB act, is what had teachers tell me that my child (when she was young) was "unteachable" and wanted me to institutionalize her.
 
KristinaB said:
Well - a lot of the Mexicans here that are legal US citizens are threatening to send their children back to family in Mexico due to the NCLB act, saying their children will get a better education and be happier where it isn't in force.

In my case, the NCLB act, is what had teachers tell me that my child (when she was young) was "unteachable" and wanted me to institutionalize her.
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Interesting point. NCLB makes it about the money. Any undesirables are weeded out and pushed out of the educational system.
 
Mmmm....

Are you against the idea of testing students to measure academic progress? (Not talking about NCLB standard testing, just testing in general)
 
KristinaB said:
Well - a lot of the Mexicans here that are legal US citizens are threatening to send their children back to family in Mexico due to the NCLB act, saying their children will get a better education and be happier where it isn't in force.

In my case, the NCLB act, is what had teachers tell me that my child (when she was young) was "unteachable" and wanted me to institutionalize her.
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That is of interest. That's something to think about. :hmm:
 
Daredevel7 said:
Anyone who is reading my post. :)
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k ;)

I do support there are testing, but not in the way where it is a risk/reward system.

For example here - "All of your student MUST average this or better to get this amount of $".. This just screams privileges.

People in areas where there are a lot of minorities without access to jobs, education, etc - their schools are getting cut back on funding because of these tests.

I would prefer it to work this way.... Teachers who actually teach their kids get a pay raise, without any consequences otherwise. Like the health system in England.
 
posts from hell said:
k ;)


I would prefer it to work this way.... Teachers who actually teach their kids get a pay raise, without any consequences otherwise. Like the health system in England.
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So, what about my mom who taught ESE classes, or when she got switched to 'mainstream classes' (pull-out was abandoned in favor of 'inclusion' didn't work as 'team teaching'...) they stacked her room with the ESE kids... the other three fourth grade teachers had two each she had 7-12...

(yes this was legal)
 
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posts from hell said:
k ;)

I do support there are testing, but not in the way where it is a risk/reward system.

For example here - "All of your student MUST average this or better to get this amount of $".. This just screams privileges.

People in areas where there are a lot of minorities without access to jobs, education, etc - their schools are getting cut back on funding because of these tests.

I would prefer it to work this way.... Teachers who actually teach their kids get a pay raise, without any consequences otherwise. Like the health system in England.
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What if the teacher is a bad teacher? How would we know if teacher is reason for student's failure to learn or the student is unable to learn despite teacher's effort?

If the teacher is not a good teacher, why reward that teacher with pay raise?
 
FireTiger said:
So, what about my mom who taught ESE classes, or when she got switched to 'mainstream classes' (pull-out was abandoned in favor of 'inclusion' didn't work as 'team teaching'...) they stacked her room with the ESE kids... the other three fourth grade teachers had two each she had 7-12...

(yes this was legal)
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I've seen that happen too. Was your mom making these kids any dumber?

It would be rated on a per student basis. England health care cares about each person individually.

At this rate, your mother would be rewarded more if all these ESE kids increased proficiency in whatever she taught.
 
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