Dicussion about CI.

[jillio]

I think someone else also started a topic like this.... There might be some info there as well. (Was it Cheri?)
But it is good to put down these questions....



I have stated this earlier, but I'll state it again.

For Lotte - my daughter - we want her to be able to communicate with us in Dutch, her immediate family in Dutch, her extended family in english, our friends in norwegian, english and dutch, her friends from school in norwegian...etc.
Apart from that she learned signlanguage before she got CI, but she does not use it any more.

Also, we want her to be able to hear sounds. For her... Hearing is one of the most beautiful senses. Sure there's noise as well, but hearing and emotion are very close together.
I do not think deaf people understand how important sound is.....

As for hurting the culture.... that is not a good enough reasong NOT to have her experience sound.

Deafness is a choice nowadays... We made the choice for her to be able to hear..... Is she deaf??? Perhaps.... But she'll grow up hearing.

Why is it that your daughter is happy without her CI until other family member awaken? Could it possibly be because she understands that she must adapt to you, rather than the other way around?

 

[jillio]

DRUM ROLL ..... THIS TROLL HAVE COME BACK

Sigh!. Pardon me for you say think we deaf people don't understand how important is.
Yes we most deaf people does to understand what sound is all about thank you don't you dare to telling us about this we deaf do not understand about what sound is or are like. We choose do not want to be hearing because we are happy what we are and we thanks god for the HANDS we can use sign languages,
Sorry you make laugh that you said your daughter will grow up hearing :roll: she is not hearing and never will be only this CI make her can hear that is all. Yet know you want her to hearing something good or wonderful yes. It seem like to me you force her to living into the hearing world and i does to think some parents feel ashamed that their child or children are deaf or don't want them to involve the deaf world, nothing wrong to be having them be involve in deaf world it can be so wonderful experince too .. i have 2 hearing and 1 deaf kids ... we are all happy family we all treat each other as normal . some people never thought to treat deaf people as they are just deaf most of my families or friends or work colleuges never treat me as am just Deaf, they just treat me as normal because just simple accept what we are .. I sick to hear that people think all deaf people should learn to hear , that would be different if people were born hearing later on become deafned then they want to having CI that fine because they know what the hear like as they were before become deaf.
Other thing make me see red because when want their's young child to become hearing and want them to having speak like hearing do ,
It IS * COMMUNICATE ABUSES*

I does agree with sequoias's post .

Well said, CutePommie! I don't understand why people will not pay attention to the experiences of deaf adults when making decisions regarding their deaf children. All of these people are trying to give benefit of their experience to prevent another deaf child from having to endure some of the rotten things they went through as kids and no one wants to pay attention. They only take the attitude--"But my child will be different!" Wrong! I find this lack understanding given to the very people who have been deaf children sad, sad, sad!

 

[jillio]

Well, what's wrong about hearing....???? It's great. And it's a great gift for our daughter..

You don't give your daughter the gift of hearing. Its an innate sense. It cannot be given or taken away as a whim. You perhaps gave her the gift of a CI, but that is not the gift of hearing. It is the gift of an assistive devise.

 

[jillio]

Don't project your families problems with your deafness on me.. If they do not realise how little you hear.. that's a problem you should work on - together with them.

I communicate with my daughter through speech. And I do not need to raise my voice. I can whisper.
I now whispering is an alien concept, but I can talk to my daughter at a soundlevel BELOW normal speech... And she whispers back to me..

You use a HA as argument and compare that with CI....

Read the posts of some of the people around here that went from HA to CI.... REALLY read it..

BTW.. Your family probably also thinks that you could hear if only you would get CI... and they would be wrong as well.
Some people have twisted expectations from CI.... They do not understand CI... (Hearing AND deaf people..)

I am not one of them.... I know what it does.... it's right here in my life..

I find it very very sad that you refuse to understand that your daughter will face the same issues growing up that people like shel and others faced. You seem to have the mistaken belief that your daughter is going to be different from every other deaf child ever put on this earth, and that is so mistaken. She will face the same issues--and there are deaf adults that are trying to help you understand that she will have obstacles and issues to deal with as she grows into adulthood that will affect her in negative ways. For you to believe that it will never happen just because you are her parent and are so different from all other parents is terribly neglectful. You need to attend not just to her ability to perceive sound, but to her emotional and social growth as well. You only seem to be concerned with what sounds she is capable of perceiving. That only shows that your understanding of deafness is superficial at the very least.

 

[jillio]

Quote:
i mean, look at how ASL people write--with poor grammar. those deaf people don't get very far in life, in terms of their education after high school. they usually get lousy jobs.


Whoever wrote that gonna be careful what he/she says cuz that is degrading to people whose 1st language is ASL and it is not true. I have seen so many deaf children from deaf family have better reading and writing skills than I do. Matter of fact, it was those students at my school that passed the state standardized tests last spring. Only 4 of them passed on their grade level and all 4 were from deaf families.

SO TRUE!!! Studies have consistently shown that deaf children from deaf families do better with reading and writing skills. There is a reason, and it is quite simple. Deaf children from deaf families are exposed to early and consistent language models--ASL--that makes learning English easier. They have a solid foundation in one language, making acquisition of a second language easier. When a child has not been exposed to language early and consistently, they are constantly trying to play catch up with the first language, and then we attempt to throw a second language at them and wonder why they are having problems. Duh!

 

[Lillys dad]

In reference to your comment about Lotte, having to put on her CI to conform to everyone else.
Do you make the same assumption about adults that have a CI? Alot of deaf adults, that have CI do the same thing. Most of the adults I talk to about CI tell me they enjoy the quiet morning to themselves. Infact, I have been told by several here, that they dont even put the CI on until they get to work and sit down at the desk. Could it be that the kids are the same as the adults? I knwo as a hearing person, I sometimes talk out loud. So if a deaf person is talking outloud, and they dont know it, what is the difference?

Hell, I sometimes wish I had the capability to do the same thing. Life would be alot more peaceful if I could decide when I want to hear, or when I want to block ouot the world.

 

[jillio]

Wasn't an assumption--it was a question. Behavior is always motivated by something. Often, the motivation is not as clear cut as it would appear.

 

[deafdyke]

I find it very very sad that you refuse to understand that your daughter will face the same issues growing up that people like shel and others faced. You seem to have the mistaken belief that your daughter is going to be different from every other deaf child ever put on this earth, and that is so mistaken. She will face the same issues--and there are deaf adults that are trying to help you understand that she will have obstacles and issues to deal with as she grows into adulthood that will affect her in negative ways. For you to believe that it will never happen just because you are her parent and are so different from all other parents is terribly neglectful. You need to attend not just to her ability to perceive sound, but to her emotional and social growth as well. You only seem to be concerned with what sounds she is capable of perceiving. That only shows that your understanding of deafness is superficial at the very least.

Cloggy, the CI is relatively new yes...........but severe and profoundly deaf kids functioning as hoh or audilogically hoh kids functioning as "almost hearing" is NOT new. I am not that old.........I'm only in my late twenties...things haven't changed all that much. I'm somewhat involved in the local hoh community, and virtually ALL of what the teens and kids today are going through, I went through as a kid and as a teen.
There have ALWAYS been kids who get a lot of benifit from whatever hearing assistance is available. Even back in the sixites and fifties and forties!
I really think you need to get the book that I contribuated to, and read my contribuation. Netfirms Commerce Pro

 

[shel90]

Well said, CutePommie! I don't understand why people will not pay attention to the experiences of deaf adults when making decisions regarding their deaf children. All of these people are trying to give benefit of their experience to prevent another deaf child from having to endure some of the rotten things they went through as kids and no one wants to pay attention. They only take the attitude--"But my child will be different!" Wrong! I find this lack understanding given to the very people who have been deaf children sad, sad, sad!

That was the feeling I got cuz so many deaf adults here on AD has posted their experiences with the frustrations of their needs not being met and I get the feeling that there is some denial going on as if our experiences are too much for the parents to read about?

 

[Angel]

:::nods::: I see that too...

 

[Cheri]

I don't understand why people will not pay attention to the experiences of deaf adults when making decisions regarding their deaf children. All of these people are trying to give benefit of their experience to prevent another deaf child from having to endure some of the rotten things they went through as kids and no one wants to pay attention. They only take the attitude--"But my child will be different!" Wrong! I find this lack understanding given to the very people who have been deaf children sad, sad, sad!

!!!!!


Jillio, Are you also a hearing parent yourself with a deaf child?

 

[deafdyke]

All of these people are trying to give benefit of their experience to prevent another deaf child from having to endure some of the rotten things they went through as kids and no one wants to pay attention. They only take the attitude--"But my child will be different!" Wrong! I find this lack understanding given to the very people who have been deaf children sad, sad, sad!

Ditto! What Cloggy and some of the other parents don't understand is that OUR parents were told pretty much the same stuff, that you were told. Some of us suceeded under that approach............but a lot of us simply didn't do as well as we could have. Sure a dhh kid can hear and speak decently........but the fact is, that for the gross majority of dhh kids, speech and spoken language will always be not exactly a strengh. Why concentrate so much on a weakness? Sure, most kids will be able to aquiare basic spoken language skills..........but withholding "special needs" things simply b/c "oh they've mastered a mainstream skill.........providing anything else is simply gonna be a "crutch".................Sorry, but why are parents and people so obessed with the fact that some people with CI can "hear" without speechreading? Most of the arguments against special needs methods are VERY ableist. That is they look down on disabled things b/c disabled methods and things aren't as "good" as nondisabled stuff, or the argument is that "oh the people will use it as a "crutch".......................
How the fuck is being able to express yourself in Sign at a Harvard level vs. being able to express yourself in English at a sixth or seventh grade level a "cruch"? How the fuck is using a walker (to take an example from another disabilty) and going at a snail's pace and walking really badly, better then using a wheelchair to get around?
Maybe, if hearing parents opened their minds and let their kids work with a FULL toolbox, then those kids could do WICKED well.......Yes, there are kids who do very well without "special needs" stuff............but there have ALWAYS been kids like that. Even back in the old days...........Why there was this kid who was raised auditory-verbal who could speak five languages.....doesn't mean every kid will be that sucessful.

 

[neecy]

I'd just like to say - there are sometimes I take my CI off and enjoy the silence as well. Wearing the CI doesn't make me conform to anything or anybody else's standards. The standards I hold are my own. There's nothing wrong with enjoying being deaf, and enjoying being able to hear with a CI at the same time.

 

[Cloggy]

Why is it that your daughter is happy without her CI until other family member awaken? Could it possibly be because she understands that she must adapt to you, rather than the other way around?

LOL... what a way to think....

Has it ever occured to you that Lotte does not consider her CI. She just hears nothing without, she hears with CI... For her there's no confusion.

But sure... knock yourself out..

Question:

Why would she be talking in herself without anyone around ?
Why would she want batteries when her Ci doesn't work and she just wants to play ?
Why would she get upset, start a tantrum, the Ci falls off and she puts it on again ??

Perhaps she does not have a problem hearing and she has no problem being deaf... I would love it if she wouldn't change that feeling about herself...

 

[Cloggy]

You don't give your daughter the gift of hearing. Its an innate sense. It cannot be given or taken away as a whim. You perhaps gave her the gift of a CI, but that is not the gift of hearing. It is the gift of an assistive devise.

Yes we can...
CI on - she hears, CI off - she's deaf....

Actually, she can do it herself....

 

[Cloggy]

I find it very very sad that you refuse to understand that your daughter will face the same issues growing up that people like shel and others faced.
Ah, she grew up with a CI... interesting.. I recall she grew up with HA's.....
Have you read anything of members here that HA's and then got CI... and what the difference is... Guess not.!
You seem to have the mistaken belief that your daughter is going to be different from every other deaf child ever put on this earth, and that is so mistaken.
All deaf children are the same.... interesting point of view...
No, I don't share that view with you.
She will face the same issues--and there are deaf adults that are trying to help you understand that she will have obstacles and issues to deal with as she grows into adulthood that will affect her in negative ways. For you to believe that it will never happen just because you are her parent and are so different from all other parents is terribly neglectful.Where have I used a phrase "because I am her parent" ?? Don't start putting that kind of nonsense here. There's no need for that kind of crap.
She has CI. She does not have HA's. Read some experiences here of adults that EXPERIENCED the difference....
You need to attend not just to her ability to perceive sound, but to her emotional and social growth as well. You only seem to be concerned with what sounds she is capable of perceiving. That only shows that your understanding of deafness is superficial at the very least.

Your comment shows that you have no clue about Ci and about my daughter. And where do you get the idea to think I do not attend to her emotionally and socially.
Another accusation that you bring up without anything to show for it.

What you have said so far is that parents that choose for Ci are:
Neglecting the child,
Neglecting the emotional growth,
Neglecting the social growth,
Parents believe it works because THEY are the parent..
Oh yeh..
We're in denial
We hate sign language
We hate deaf culture

Listen... you did a wonderful job letting your son grow up deaf, and he does very well.
But that doesn't mean that when someone chooses another path they are wrong....
You did not choose CI... so your child cannot hear... get over it...

 

[Fo'Shizzle]

Well, maybe they want the best for their childrens so they can be able to learn more out in the real world. Its a tough little world out there... I wish my mom would got me a ci when I was younger, but then I didn't need it since I had to much hearing back then. Now since Im getting older Im losing more hearing. My hearing sucks. I still want the cochlear implant so I can be able to do the things I can't do.. I would love to hear music, get a decent job, attend college, and hear my families voice. I mean "The sounds I've never heard"! I think it's sad when everybody has to walk around can't hear worthed crap. No offense. I know some of you are agaisnt ci and I respect that. But personally I think parents nowadays are doing the "right" thing by giving their childrens a CI so that way they will lead a better life by hearing and learn more. A friend of mine who is deaf can't even talk... She can't even spell.... I can make a list of things what she can't do.... She has to have a lot of help in her life, her dad pays all of her bills since she can't even get a job and doens't even make enough money in SSI.. She quit college becasue she said it was hard on her. I mean with a CI there is a lot you can do and learn.. It may be hard but worthed it, may take a long process but I think it will be worthed it myself. Thats why Im going to get a Cochlear implant once this lawyer works out. It doesn't hurt to try new things.......

 

[Cheri]

Fo'Shizzle, What does your friend have to do with every deaf individuals? You think cochlear implants are the only way in life to make everything goes easy and smooth? Who ever says life was even easy for anyone? Life is hard, and we (everyone of us) don’t always do things right. Even when we’re little kids in a world of big people, and sometimes we get run over or pushed aside, do you consider that leading in a easy life? Deaf or not, everyone goes through hard and rough in life. Your argument doesn't even make no sense honestly. My son is hearing and the smartest one in his whole class, some kids in his class don't even read/write as well as him or as well as others in class, they're all hearing. I don't even think it makes no differences, hearing, deaf, cochlear implant each person is different on how they pact in life. Even life is hard finding the one we love the one we want to marry right? So like I said nothing in life is easy or ever gonna be easy for anyone.

 

[Fo'Shizzle]

Fo'Shizzle, What does your friend have to do with every deaf individuals? You think cochlear implants are the only way in life to make everything goes easy and smooth? Who ever says life was even easy for anyone? Life is hard, and we (everyone of us) don’t always do things right. Even when we’re little kids in a world of big people, and sometimes we get run over or pushed aside, do you consider that leading in a easy life? Deaf or not, everyone goes through hard and rough in life. Your argument doesn't even make no sense honestly. My son is hearing and the smartest one in his whole class, some kids in his class don't even read/write as well as him or as well as others in class, they're all hearing. I don't even think it makes no differences, hearing, deaf, cochlear implant each person is different on how they pact in life. Even life is hard finding the one we love the one we want to marry right? So like I said nothing in life is easy or ever gonna be easy for anyone.

Did I say it was going to make things easy? No I didn't I said it may be hard but worthed it. Cochlear implants are suppose to help "hear" better which eventually does. It helps people be able to understand more whats out in the real world. And yes it's a tough life out there but its even worst on a deaf person than a hearing person.. I believe, honeslty with all of my heart that Cochlear implant will help improve more. But at the same time I see what your point is, but still I think cochlear implant will help all of us out in the real world, understand more what goes on out there. Well, Im glad your kid is the smartest in his class, good for him. Keep up the great work. But my friend did get a cochlear implant wore it for years, did "great", but then all sudden she doesn't want to wear her CI, she went downhill. Big time.. gave up everything... It's basically a long story but "why" did she do that? I honestly don't know... I personally think she wants her life to be easy on her so she depends on her father. She's a grown adult 24 years old.... Some people don't even want want to "try" to reach their goals. They think it's hard "because" they are deaf or whatsoever, well I think it's a bunch of bull and excuses. I personally still think CI would help but still if your deaf or hearing, I think people should still "try" the best out in the world. It's going to be hard no matter what.. But I respect for those who doesn't want a CI. and for those who are getting it, "good luck"

 

[Cheri]

Did I say it was going to make things easy?

Not in those words, but the way you describe on your post by ruling out that being deaf wouldn't be able to do much in life, which you know it's not even true, we can do just about anything we set our goals to, we can even have a good paying job, we can have the education we deserved to have, we can be great parents, we can become great role models to our children, etc etc, I could go on and on, but I'm sure you understand what I am talking about.

Cochlear implants are suppose to help "hear" better which eventually does.

Now, that's not even true. They are not miracle devices. It depends on each individuals, it may not work on some, while it might work well on others. It all depends on how much it'll work on "you" and "others themselves" Don't expect high standards.

And yes it's a tough life out there but its even worst on a deaf person than a hearing person..

Does that make it our fault that it got tougher on deaf people than it was on hearing people? If there wasn't that much ignorant people out in the society who wouldn't even have the time of the day of being patient and being more understanding, then we wouldn't be having this problem would we now? I know my rights are being a citizen of the United States, and if an ignorant person telling me what I can't do the same as a hearing person, I'll show them how much an idiot they are. heheheh! We did not even asked to be deaf, why should we deserved to get punished or to be treat any lesser for who we are?