Decision is Made

[AlleyCat]

You know what? We agree on one thing... It's subjective to the person who's had the surgery.

Absolutely! So, can I assume then, that you are planning to have the CI surgery? I am not sure I understand why else you are in this particular thread. The whole concept of this CI surgery is subjective to all those who have had it, or will have it, or are considering having it in the future, so I would like to hear about how it's going to go for you so you can come back and share the experience with all of us.

 

[Mimsy]

He never sat alone; there were people from collections there to "remind" him that he owed them a great sum of money. Every single time he went, which was at least once a week, they would be waiting for him. A captive audience, he could not leave. I doubt it helped his recovery.

I understand they want their money, but this is disgusting.

 

[saywhatkid]

I understand they want their money, but this is disgusting.

Yes. I remember my sister was livid. She was stuck there as well. A captive audience.

 

[BleedingPurist]

You are continuing to bring in an argument that's been asked for everyone to drop from the discussion. Why must you continue to prove to people on the forum that infant implantation is a beneficial and/or mandatory process for whatever reasons you may have?

It is not going to convince anyone.

The opponents you are arguing against are already aware of it and I don't think you will accomplish anything or anyone's opinion changed by nitpicking words or semantics that are important to you. The people who agree with you will remain in the same position, but no one on your opposition is going to give in for your arguments nor any points you have to make. I listed out possible reasons I thought up of why people were against it for you to understand why they felt that way; not for debating with.


The post was initially made for BleedingPurist, who stated to that there appeared to be an agenda to him, that some posters on AD are against Cochlear Implants. I posted for him to understand nobody here is against Cochlear Implants itself at all. I did not to quote him in the event there were other parties seeking to pursue the same argument ventures.

Naisho, you are letting your assumptions and emotions cloud your judgement. Read my post very carefully.

I neither promoted or argued for implanting CIs in children. I am not trying to change anyone's mind here. I stated a fact that is constantly glossed over here. When you decide not to provide an infant with the best possible solution for hearing, WHATEVER THAT SOLUTION MAY BE, you have already made the decision for them. This is a fact that you cannot dance around that is not up for debate or arguing, It is fact and logic. Beyond that.. then you can argue away. I personally don't care. It's the parents decision as far as I'm concerned for how or if they want to treat a child's deafness.

You are yet again arguing (with a mod), and assuming I am waiting for a reply from you once again when you assert and explain your opinion over and over as if I am taking a position against you and am clueless to your points you must make.

I have carefully explained to you that I am not the one making the arguments, that I am presenting what we are not looking to debate about on AllDeaf in this discussion.
I do not care what is the correct decision' to be made, whether for or against implants.
I am asking you to stop beating opinions into this discussion about implantation methodology after I explained that no one here is against Cochlear Implants, they are against implantation of children.
Take some time off and spare the details. I believe you need to read carefully for what has been asked.

naisho

 

[BleedingPurist]

Don't be too naive acting..

I thought it was hysterically funny when Grendel accused Bleeding Purist of trying to drive people away from her CI company because he was greedy for the commision from his company.

Excuse me, Bottesini? Are you being sarcastic?

Just in case you are being serious... you are way off base. I neither work for an Implant Company, get any commision, or have a hidden agenda. I ignored that post of Grendel's because by the time I read it the conversation had moved on.

Is it really that difficult to understand that CIs can make a huge difference in the lives of some people? I do help other people who are interested in them because people were there for me when it was my time and I am grateful for that.

Now if you failed to understand that exchange with Grendel..... I do take issue with any twisting or clouding of facts. When I was researching CIs prior to getting it, I encountered a lot of outright bullshit just to push one company over the other that made choosing more difficult than it should have been. Grendel was talking about the N5 as a swimmable BTE. It is not, in fact, a swimmable BTE. Look it up. Research it. Now if someone read that and took it as fact with swimming being important to them, don't you think they'd feel mislead if they found out too late that it is water resistant and not meant to be swimmable? Grendel chooses to take a risk with the processor... that's fine. But that fact should be clear.

Perhaps you don't understand why I care, but I know how hard the process is to decide and know what the facts are. I don't care if someone chooses Cochlear as long as they are clear on their choice and not mislead either by intention or ignorance. There is a lot of misinformation out there surrounding CI's, period.

There is way too much paranoia over this here.

 

[Bottesini]

Excuse me, Bottesini? Are you being sarcastic?

Just in case you are being serious... you are way off base. I neither work for an Implant Company, get any commision, or have a hidden agenda. I ignored that post of Grendel's because by the time I read it the conversation had moved on.

Is it really that difficult to understand that CIs can make a huge difference in the lives of some people? I do help other people who are interested in them because people were there for me when it was my time and I am grateful for that.

Now if you failed to understand that exchange with Grendel..... I do take issue with any twisting or clouding of facts. When I was researching CIs prior to getting it, I encountered a lot of outright bullshit just to push one company over the other that made choosing more difficult than it should have been. Grendel was talking about the N5 as a swimmable BTE. It is not, in fact, a swimmable BTE. Look it up. Research it. Now if someone read that and took it as fact with swimming being important to them, don't you think they'd feel mislead if they found out too late that it is water resistant and not meant to be swimmable? Grendel chooses to take a risk with the processor... that's fine. But that fact should be clear.

Perhaps you don't understand why I care, but I know how hard the process is to decide and know what the facts are. I don't care if someone chooses Cochlear as long as they are clear on their choice and not mislead either by intention or ignorance. There is a lot of misinformation out there surrounding CI's, period.

There is way too much paranoia over this here.

Can't you read? I mean exactly what I say. I thought Grendel's hysterical outburst was funny.

It showed nothing about your motivation, but plenty about hers.

 

[BleedingPurist]

Can't you read? I mean exactly what I say. I thought Grendel's hysterical outburst was funny.

It showed nothing about your motivation, but plenty about hers.

Be fair. You know I've been accused of that here. If you aren't, well then thank you for not assuming that and I apologize.

I don't know about Grendel. I just took her at face value as a parent. I guess I'm out of the loop.

 

[Cloggy]

To be fair, when one is eligible for a CI, it doesn't mean they cannot get anything out of a hearing aid. It likely means their speech discrimination scores are very poor. Using a hearing aid even with a profound loss can help with speech reading. You are also likely still able hear environmental sounds.

I began paying attention to CIs around 2002 or so when a friend of mine got one. I was pretty clueless about them before then and had the impression they were extreme, crude, and nothing like real hearing. I figured I should probably learn more about them in case the day ever came that I lost my remaining hearing. Sure enough, 3 years later I was forced to get serious about it and do real research into it.

The thing is... I had qualified long before then, I just didn't know. The amount of hearing you have at those levels with a hearing aid can be deceptive to the user. It seems like you are hearing "everything except for high pitched sounds and consonants in speech" at least for those who shared my common slope with high frequencies impacted more severely than low frequencies.

So a choice between a CI or HA isn't necessarily a choice between hearing or not hearing, though sometimes it takes getting to that point to make you consider a CI.

I agree... There's a zone where HA and CI overlap....

 

[Cloggy]

I rather not have surgery anything in my OWN head. It is not a life threatening.

Excellent decision..

 

[Cloggy]

Get the surgery, then tell us all about how it feels.

I know several people who had it. They didn't think it was minor, and it took quite a while for recovery.

Lotte was up after 3 hours. Threw up. Got an asperine, ate, drank and got out of bed to start playing with the tricycle... Parents running after her through the hospital corridors....

Imagine.... Experiences are different.....

 

[Cloggy]

yeah. some of them had to stay at the hospital for the overnight. some of them puked, some of them puked begged for a pain killer. so its still a major surgery.

Puking + asking for a pain killer = Major Surgery..

ah... Well, I didn't realize that was your definition for major surgery..

With that definition... CI-operation IS major surgery..
For the rest of the world..... Puking + asking for a pain killer = Major Surgery.. is not considered major surgery..
But do hang on to your definition....

 

[Cloggy]

....

It's kind of similar to the aspect of circumcision of male infants at birth. There is a perfectly valid clause for people to be against it. Replace the word 'circumcision' with CI and it's the exact same debate.

Really...??
Removing part of a body and with that part of the sense is the same as restoring a sense..?

 

[Cloggy]

Sorry for a bit off-topic, but I'm still fascinated by the fact that in the U.S. CI surgery is an out-patient surgery while in my country people after CI surgery stay at least 4-7 days in the hospital..
Maybe I can ask our CI surgeon about that (if my second CI will be approved, otherwise I won't see him)

Guess it depends on the age of the patient and distance to medical care.
With Lotte - age 2-1/4 - Lotte had to stay 3 days before we could go home because we lived in another town. People living in Oslo were allowed to go home the next day

 

[Cloggy]

Try to look at it from a decisive / modular position, not from the semantics of the operation involved.

-Both are considered 'invasive surgeries'.
True
-Both operations, I am sure 99.9999% of all infants will be screaming in pain against having their skin, or skull in CI's operation case, cut off if they were not on anesthesia.
True
-Both are often decisions made by parents onto their child, whether informed or uninformed.
True
-Both surgeries, the children are perfectly capable of making when they are older.

True, but the overall result for Ci when the decision is taken years later is inferior to the results when the decision is taken by the parent as soon as possible.
S.. The parents decision is based on logic and experience... Not on a custom...

I doubt that the decision for circumcision is ever thought about.... It's just done.... (Otherwise the child doesn't belong to the community..)

 

[Cloggy]

....paid/spokesperson

Always interesting how I never see these people in this messageboard...
It's a nice technique to discredit other members... Just accuse them of alternative motives and they don't need to be believed any more..

I know there are people that are associated with companies... I haven't seen them here... But then again.... I'm not looking for them..

But please provide some links to those kind of threads and posts... Would be very informative..

 

[naisho]

Cloggy, if you are not aware, noticing that you are reading the thread in linear post format:

I am asking the community to cease arguments here on anything pertaining to implantation in children who are not fully developed in their minds and are unable to make a decision whether they want a CI or not. It doesn't matter what pros and cons you may suggest or something you want to nit pick out of the analogy or anything the anti-infant implantation crew has had in mind whether in this thread, or in the past.

This message constitutes an admonition for the purposes of the direction in the thread.
I do not need a reply back, just so you understand.

Thanks.