Deaf Nation new comer

[Nesmuth]

Theres still strong resistance to changes in the deaf community we've seen a group so dedicated to deaf culture carry out childish pranks on people who are on the bridges of change.

Richard

 

[Lillys dad]

As I said earlier, cultures must adapt to survive. Especially in trhe world we live in now. Things are changing so fast, as soon as a technoloigal device hits the market it is obsolete. If a culture does not adapt, it will die.

As for praking someone because they chose to communicate through a different medium, thats like telling a cruel, mean joke, then when someone is offendend the joke teller says "oh relax, its just a joke". As said before IGNORANCE.

I dont know about anyone else here, but I dont have the time or patience to deal with ignorant, cloeminded people. On that note, I goota go to work.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I feel and after read DoofusMama's story... I can feel her feeling... It's disgusting what her mother did to her.

DoofusMama, you have my

Reading this made my eyes teary.
DoofusMama, I am so sorry about what you went through when you were growing up. I feel like wanting to give you a hug

Lillys_Dad, I am so sorry about the cold shoulder that some people had given to you at the expo but I do applaud you for wanting to expose your daughter to the deaf culture. DoofusMama's post is one of the reasons why some deaf people are not comfortable around hearing people who decide to implant their deaf children with CIs.

I really don't mind being friends with deaf people who have CIs as long as they don't push the deaf culture or me away. I am not for implanting babies and toddlers with CIs because I am concerned about how they would feel about it when they get older. I think it should be the individual to make the decision on whether to have a CI implanted in her or him, not the parents. I hope you don't hate me for saying this but it is just my honest opinion.

Yes I second that.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

From what I know there are different views in Deaf culture towards adults who make the choice to get a CI and towards parents who implant their children. You were probably the subject of prejudice towards the latter. It's a shame that that happened since obviously just by being there you are interested in exposing your child to Deaf culture, but it's a very emotional issue. Like if you went to a very strict Catholic church and you got an abortion, even if you still believed in Catholicism and wanted to be part of it, there would probably be many people in that church who would shun you.

Very true...

People who have strong belief give you disgust look and label you as whore because you are single mother... and label child as bastard child because their parents are not married. They also label anyone as murder when they decide to abort their unborn for reasons. Your strict reglious parents look disgust you and treat you as whore... etc. It's same with deaf culture when they look babies/toddlers with CI.

Lillys dad, I'm very sorry how you feel like this. I do not expect anyone treat you like this since you didn't try anything to push them about CI...

I think it's too early to join deaf club... I would advise you to put your child to mix with CI and deaf children at kindergarten... parent & child group... family club... school... It's step to step for hearing parents.

I know from my experience with deaf and CI children... A lot of hearing parents join parent & child group where I joined every Tuesday when my both boys were babies to toddler. It's up to 3 years then go to family club... It's their first step to learn us better... learn sign from us...then go family club... then go to school... until you familiar the people you know from kindergarten, parent & child group, family club then you will feel warm and make friends with them because they know that you are willing to learn sign for your child and want to expose your child at deaf culture then you feel comfortable and can go to deaf cultures.... because you know everyone know you. Yes we debate about CI issues but we have to accept their decision to implant their babies/toddlers .

 

[Deaf Images]

I don't hate, it is just FACTS that the hearing need to understand....

So that is how you learned to treat people like shit that come to you.
I'm sorry for your childhood, but why do you treat people the way you do not want to be treated? You should show love towards people that reach out to you with their deaf child, not hate.

I don't hate anyone. It is that the situation is repeated over and over again as I get older. I have seen how many had fallen through cracks in social service delivery system. It is that no one would listen anyways no matter how much advice had been doled out and how people perceive what or how people think. We can make or break the system.

The system can be "corrupted" as some do know how much Deaf community reacted to how hearing people propagated the sytem to their advantage. Some are medical quackery.

In the old western, someone would claim that a bottle of this or that would cure baldness or deafness, it was "snake oil" stuff that people would make a fast buck.

Back in 1970's, China claimed to have acupuncture that could heal deafness. Some of my classmates/friends got their acupuncture and "claimed" to hear better. It was a medical quackery. My mother asked me to take it. I declined and told my mother to save her $. I am glad that I did that.

Back in 1980's, My father and brother (both hearing) asked me to consider cochlear implanting. I declined and accussed them of not accepting my deafness. It was still medical quackery. Why waste $40,000.00 on something that is unnecessary and uncomfortable for lifestyle? It still does NOT cure deafness! NONE AT ALL! Deaf people will STILL be DEAF! It only works for a few.

Like Barnum says, " a sucker is born every minute".


This is my blunt response to how many people have suckered into audism and how the society treats deaf like it has done for several thousand years. It is simply paternalism, patronization and the plantation mentality it poses on the deaf for generations.

 

[Cheri]

Lillys dad,

Since you live in St. Louis, MO. Are you planning on attending a Deaf event which it is called AllDeaf Caucus, It's on July 13th to 16th of this year. If you want more information, You can contract DreamDeaf who is also a member here at AD by private message.

You'll be surprised that we would be more accepting than what you had experience recently.

 

[deafdyke]

It is that the situation is repeated over and over again as I get older. I have seen how many had fallen through cracks in social service delivery system.

Yes, there are MANY hearing parents who are still in deep denial, BUT Lillysdad, IS NOT ONE OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We realize you're not a "Sweetmind-style" extremist (ASL ONLY!!!!!!!!)
but still........

 

[Angel]

Lillys dad,

Since you live in St. Louis, MO. Are you planning on attending a Deaf event which it is called AllDeaf Caucus, It's on July 13th to 16th of this year. If you want more information, You can contract DreamDeaf who is also a member here at AD by private message.

You'll be surprised that we would be more accepting than what you had experience recently.

I agree,

 

[LisaMarie]

I took my wife and daughter to Deaf Nation today. I wanted to go so we could start to get involved in the deaf culture. We have very little exposure other than Central Institute for the deaf and the families we have met there.

I have been told by several people on this board and others that it is very important to expose my daughter (and my wife and I) to the deaf culture, afterall, my daughter is deaf.
So if it is so important for her to be exposed to this community, then why do so many people give us/her the cold shoulder when I try to do this?
I have never felt so unwanted in my life. Along those lines, I have never seen so many people look at a child with such disgust, just because she has a C.I.
Then they look at my wife and I like we chopped off her arms.
I spent several years patrolling in a very violent anti police area where the majority of its residents would rather shoot me than talk to me (litterally). Yet I have never felt so looked down upon, and looked at with pure disgust.

The only positive note, I spent a couple of hours there and I did run into a couple of people that I know. I also met a very nice married couple and had a very nice conversation with them. They are both deaf. She has a C.I. and he is undergoing the testing to get a bilatteral ci. They were very vocal in theri support of my daughter being implanted. They even told me to ignore anyone that says anything to the contrary.

As said above, I was told (and feel) that it is important to expose my daughter to the deaf culture. When I do, I get looked down upon, and shunned. A parents job is to raise a child in the manner they see best right?
So why then should I continue to expose her to a community that shuns her and rejects her based soley on a medical procedure she had that makes it possible for her to hear as a "hearie".Afterall, isnt that what I'm called?
I raise my daughter in a manner that promotes her having an open mind. I see first hand the effects of stereotyping, bias, and prejudice every day at work. Why would I support and encourage her to be active in a cultre that openly supports these things?

Lily's dad.. I'm so sorry you experince a horrible at Deaf Nation! I was surprised they treats u like u were monster. MY friend is a CEO of deaf nation. I'm curious was it in St. Louis? IF so, I'll mention this to Joel. (my friend who is CEO of this) Again, Im really sorry about this and they shouldnt have done this to you.
Please dont give up expose her to deaf culture. If u experince like this it doesnt mean u will experince this at every time.. Just give it a time.

 

[Cloggy]

I don't hate anyone. It is that the situation is repeated over and over again as I get older. I have seen how many had fallen through cracks in social service delivery system. It is that no one would listen anyways no matter how much advice had been doled out and how people perceive what or how people think. We can make or break the system.

People do listen to advice. It doesn't mean it's followed up because there can be different solutions to the same problem. Or perhaps the question looks different from different positions. Therefore, rejecting people that choose a different solution because the look at the question from a different angle is counterproductive. Doing so will indeed "break the system".

The system can be "corrupted" as some do know how much Deaf community reacted to how hearing people propagated the sytem to their advantage. Some are medical quackery.

In the old western, someone would claim that a bottle of this or that would cure baldness or deafness, it was "snake oil" stuff that people would make a fast buck.

Back in 1970's, China claimed to have acupuncture that could heal deafness. Some of my classmates/friends got their acupuncture and "claimed" to hear better. It was a medical quackery. My mother asked me to take it. I declined and told my mother to save her $. I am glad that I did that.

Quackery is when people believe i results that in fact are not there. In this case, results are there. I have met deaf children that have had the "quackery" for 5 years and speak normally, hear everything - and yes, sign. With - amaongst other things - this example, I see that my solution to the question is a good one. Other people might choose another solution. But you cannot call Cochlear implants quackery. If you want to show people other solutions, using that argument is counterproductive.

Back in 1980's, My father and brother (both hearing) asked me to consider cochlear implanting. I declined and accussed them of not accepting my deafness. It was still medical quackery. Why waste $40,000.00 on something that is unnecessary and uncomfortable for lifestyle? It still does NOT cure deafness! NONE AT ALL! Deaf people will STILL be DEAF! It only works for a few.

You made your choice - 26 years ago. It will not work for you since only part of the effectiveness is the motivation to make it work. But I disagree that it works for only a few. Nowaday's (not 26 years ago) it plainly works. Works as in producing sensation of sound. It's up to the person to do something with that, that's where the real work starts (and never finishes). That you don't see the results is partly because people are reluctant to tell you it works and stay away from Anti-CI websides. Another reason you do not see it is because you do not want to see it, and that's fine by me, as long as the lack of "success-stories" that reach you is not interpreted as "lack of success".

Like Barnum says, " a sucker is born every minute".

Well, they are not born like that, suckers develop themself as time passes by.

This is my blunt response to how many people have suckered into audism and how the society treats deaf like it has done for several thousand years. It is simply paternalism, patronization and the plantation mentality it poses on the deaf for generations.

Blunt is the correct term, but I am glad you also explain your thoughts like in the post where these quotes came from.
I hope you appreciate my comments on them.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Lillys dad,

Since you live in St. Louis, MO. Are you planning on attending a Deaf event which it is called AllDeaf Caucus, It's on July 13th to 16th of this year. If you want more information, You can contract DreamDeaf who is also a member here at AD by private message.

You'll be surprised that we would be more accepting than what you had experience recently.

GOOD POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I never thought about this since I suggest him in my previous post.

Yes, Lilly's dad, I would advise you to take Cheri's suggestion.

 

[deafdyke]

Yeah, what an awesome awesome idear, coming to the alldeaf caccus!
Liliysdad, please remember that only about 1% of all Deafies (and probloly no more then 5%) Sign only! I think maybe you got the recpetion that you did, b/c you're in St. Louis. Maybe the Deafies at DeafNation, had too many bad experiances with Oral parents. Some hearing oral parents are very openminded, but a lot of them......*shakes head sadly*
Actually Cloggy, I wonder if DeafImages isn't bringing up a good point. Research has indicated that kids who once had hearing are the best users of their implants. Only a very small percentage of kids were born or early deafened. Also, some of the CI advocates almost sound like medicene show barkers. They make it sound like everyone with a CI gets functionally hoh.Just as with hearing aids, hearing results vary tremendously.
Also, maybe the good speech skills are the result of high programming planning (ie the faimly where they give babies toys that will raise their SAT scores!)

 

[Cloggy]

......
Actually Cloggy, I wonder if DeafImages isn't bringing up a good point. Research has indicated that kids who once had hearing are the best users of their implants. Only a very small percentage of kids were born or early deafened......

As I recall, CI has best results with prelingually deaf toddlers that are implanted early or latedeafened adults that remember sound.
Having CI when being profoundly deaf for a long time can be a problem because even though one can hear sound, one needs to learn to interpret them. And that is very difficult.

I just want to say that stating "It doesn't work" is WRONG. "Works" depends on the expectations of the person that chooses for it. Also, in some cases it might not work-technically.

So, when you say "it doesn't work" one needs to specify when it does and when it doesn't.

I allways gave examples from my daughter where I can see it works. I have NEVER said that it allways works.

 

[deafdyke]

As I recall, CI has best results with prelingually deaf toddlers that are implanted early

Yes, but they've still found that those who LOST their hearing, even as babies, do better with the CI then do kids who never had an chance to be exposed to sound!

 

[DreamDeaf]

LillysDad -

While you will not find me a supporter of CI, I can see the benefits many people have gotten from using an implant and have no problem with that.

I was born hard of hearing, grew up in a family that encouraged me to be oral, and I have never regretted it - even when people berate me for being an oralist - I use ASL and do ask several qualified ASL teachers for signs when I am not sure if I am using it correctly or signing correctly.

However, I do know that if I had not grown up an oral deaf person, I would not have the job that I have now, and I know of several people that have high-paying jobs because they grew up in the same environment that I did.

I am still stubborn in using a BTE aid, as it is a safety issue for me where I work, when I drive, and whenever I need a BTE to help me.

I believe that ASL does benefit me, but only when I am among deaf and hearing people that have ASL skills, or with an interpreter in a business meeting or class environment. Other than that, I would immediately be lost if I were not oral and have excellent lip-reading skills.

LillysDad, don't give up. As long as you acknowlege that your daughter is deaf, will always be deaf, and give her the tools and means to help her succeed in society, be it with a CI, ASL, anything that helps her in life, she will do just fine.

Welcome to AllDeaf!!!

 

[ayala920]

Lily's Dad:

I think you made a great point when you said you were going to keep taking your daughter to Deaf events. As others have said, there are obviously many people who are against the idea of implanting children. However, from my own personal experience, it seems as though the militants are becoming fewer and fewer. I know a lot of people who don't support implants, but won't shun those who have them and still identify as Deaf. Hopefully you and your family will be able to encounter more people like that.

 

[Cloggy]

Yes, but they've still found that those who LOST their hearing, even as babies, do better with the CI then do kids who never had an chance to be exposed to sound!

Never heared about that. Can you get me something to read about that.

 

[angelstar819]

well, you know, there are a lot of big "D" Deaf people out there who are totally against the idea of CI's. these people think that if a person is born deaf, they should remain deaf without using any technology. and that they need to be taught only ASL and immerse themselves in to the Deaf culture where everyone else signs. i'm a CI user myself and my mom was telling me how when i was little, and when this man saw me with hearing aids (before i got my CI), he signed to me. i looked at him blankly, and my mom told him that i didnt sign and that i could speak. the man walked away looking disgusted. you will be very grateful for your daughter when she grows up and learns to speak and listen like everyone else with her CI. she can integrate into the hearing world and have many hearing friends like i do. she can be mainstreamed in a public school and order from a mcdonald's menu. all the hard work of teaching her how to listen and speak will pay off. and you can look back at those Deaf people and say that you are glad that your daughter got implanted because she can do so many more things that they can't. btw, try avoiding Deaf events. rather, join AGBell association for the deaf..they believe that all deaf children can speak and listen..find out more info at http://www.agbell.org

 

[deafdyke]

Angelstar, *sigh* Very few people here denitigrate oral skills. There is NOTHING wrong with oral skills, at all! However, you saying that Signers can't do as many things as Oral-only folks, is WRONG. Abilty to sign doesn't equate with inabilty to speak! We Signers might just as well say that you oral only folks, are crippled b/c you're so dependant and can't function without hearing aids/CIs/ALDs!!!! Besides, most hoh kids AND orally trained kids ALREADY have had tons of exposure to oral stuff, and AG Bell. They now need ASL and Deaf culture to open up their choices a little more. Yes, some of them will be able to get along in the hearing world.....but 100% sucess in the hearing world for dhh kids is VERY rare. Sure they might do OK, orally, but they could acheive EVEN BETTER with traditional methods. Sort of like how I took regualr ski school lessons for years and years,and was still an advanced beginner. Then I took adaptive ski lessons and REALLY took off!

 

[Deaf Images]

Ugh! A Perfect Example Of Audism/dut

well, you know, there are a lot of big "D" Deaf people out there who are totally against the idea of CI's. these people think that if a person is born deaf, they should remain deaf without using any technology. and that they need to be taught only ASL and immerse themselves in to the Deaf culture where everyone else signs. i'm a CI user myself and my mom was telling me how when i was little, and when this man saw me with hearing aids (before i got my CI), he signed to me. i looked at him blankly, and my mom told him that i didnt sign and that i could speak. the man walked away looking disgusted. you will be very grateful for your daughter when she grows up and learns to speak and listen like everyone else with her CI. she can integrate into the hearing world and have many hearing friends like i do. she can be mainstreamed in a public school and order from a mcdonald's menu. all the hard work of teaching her how to listen and speak will pay off. and you can look back at those Deaf people and say that you are glad that your daughter got implanted because she can do so many more things that they can't. btw, try avoiding Deaf events. rather, join AGBell association for the deaf..they believe that all deaf children can speak and listen..find out more info at

A PURE EXAMPLE OF AUDISM/DUT!!!