Deaf Nation new comer

[gnulinuxman]

Correct, I am aware that the CI does not allow one to hear as a hearing person, I misspoke about that.

Thanks for correcting yourself.

As far as not bring up a ci during a conversation with a deaf person, I never got the chance. All someone has to do is look at my daughter and they see it. When they saw it, I got that disgusting look. And by that point, there is no point of even trying to talk to that person.

Well, I don't know what to say about that. But you could just try signing "hi".

As far as docs, and so forth, pushing ci dont peoples throat. I'm not a dr. Just because my daughter has a ci, I dont think that everyone should. I support those that have a Ci the same as someone that doesnt want one. Life is about choices, and your choice is exactly that YOURS.

They don't know you. Perhaps they misunderstood you or you misunderstood them.

Those that feel they dont want a ci or dont want to have a ci shoved down thier throat (your words)look at my daughter and assume that I'm there to force the issue. They never even gave me a chance to show them otherwise. That is called stereotyping. I hope that you dont (or try not to) stereotype a person based on race correct? If you see a black guy standing on a corner, do you assume he is a drug dealer? Maybe hes waiting for a bus.

Well, maybe you don't do that, but they probably misunderstood you or just don't know you don't feel that way. Remember, many of them have had to go through many arguments with hearing parents who loved cochlear implants.

If you do not stereotype that situation, why is it ok to stereotype me?

Well, it may not be OK, but perhaps it's just a misunderstanding. Most hearing parents who get cochlear implants for their children recommend to everyone to get them for their deaf children and then say it's so great to hear. Maybe you don't, but they don't know you.

I have learned a very valuable lesson because of my experience at deaf nation and the conversatons on this webpage. I have learned that ignorance is alive and well within the deaf community just like any other community. Because I have not made the same choices that you or your parents have, I am not worthy of respect or even the time of day. Thats fine, If those people want to show thier ignorance, good. It makes it that much easier to figure out who is a decent open mided person and who is a narrow minded idiot.

Well, true, but there are lots of people who are forced to get a cochlear implant. There are Deaf people who are against the CI because they don't understand it, too. But most just are tired of it getting thrown in their faces a lot.

The people that look down on me and my daughter (in my opinion) are no better than the KKK, black panthers, or neo-nazi skin heads. They hate us because we are different than they are. They are afraid of anyone that does not see they world the same as they do.

Uh, some do, but I, a hearing person, have been accepted into the Deaf Culture and participate somewhat actively in it. It isn't about ability to hear or not--it's about acceptance of who your daughter is. Many don't see implanting your daughter as accepting who she is, and they don't think you'd accept them either.

And yes, I have plenty of experience dealing with the afforementioned groups. I have stood on a police line and had to defend the rights of these hate mongers. I have gotten in thier faces and arrested them. I have been shot at by "black sepratists". In high school I used to hang out with a group of skin heads called "circle of equality" This is a group of skinheads that were anti racism. They spent most of thier free time protecting minorites from racist skinheads. In fact for fun and recreation, they had a hobby of stomping nazi skinheads. And based on my experiences, all of these hate groups are a bunch of pussies. In mass, they are strong and will jump anyone that disagreese with their philosophies. In a one on one setting, they run away crying like a little school girl.

Interesting point.

I am beginning to form the same opinion of the anti ci deaf sepratists that look down on me and mine because I am doing what I feel is right for my daughter. Not thier daughter, just mine.

Well, you may feel what's right for daughter was the cochlear implant, that decision is not very well liked by Deaf people because many people in the Deaf culture (myself included) are against the CI in children. I will just agree to disagree, I guess.

I realize that this is a bit harsh, and I apoligize for the roughlanguage but this is the conclusion that I have reached based only on my observations. If ya dont like it.......too bad.

Responses??????

Well, this is my opinion on your post.

 

[Rose Immortal]

Yes, that's the way I see it too.

I just am a bit angered by people saying things are good "because God let [me or others] make it". (This is a very common argument in favor of cochlear implants, and one that Heather Whitestone-McCallum makes very frequently.) That argument is not valid at all to me because God also "let" people invent the gun and nuclear bombs, yet I doubt He wants us killing people. God gave us free will.

Excuse my uneducated opinion, but it seems to me that CI's are more of a choice issue than dropping a nuke. That comparison seems a little bit stretched.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Excuse my uneducated opinion, but it seems to me that CI's are more of a choice issue than dropping a nuke. That comparison seems a little bit stretched.

I didn't compare cochlear implants to dropping nukes. I only said that arguments in favor of cochlear implants that say things like "Cochlear implants are good because God allowed them to be invented" are invalid because God gave us free will.

 

[Lillys dad]

I have absolutely no problem with someone that disagrees with me. Those that disagree and explain why are cool with me. Besides, conversation and debate are how people learn. Thats part of having an open mind.

You still fail to understand one very important issue. You repeatedly say "they must have misunderstood you". There is absolutely no misunderstanding. In order to misunderstand me, I must say something, correct? With the excpetion of two of the people that I speak of, no one ever said anything to me not me to them. When someone looks at you and your child in disgust, no words are necessary. As I said before, People would make eye contact with me and my wife, see that we were talking to each other without lip reading (while doing thisthey would have no facial expression), then look at my daughter and see the ear peice and coil of her CI. The facial expression would immediatley change to one of horrow and or disgust. Then they would look at me the same way.
As I said no words were ever exchanged. If I say nothing, there is no misunderstanding. And before you say they may have misunderstood my body language, No. I am very aware of body language. If I felt uncomfortable or nervous about being there, they MAY have been able to sense that. But I wasn't. I went into the place with nothing but the best of intentions intending on exposing my family to deaf culture and was shit on for it.
I realize that some deaf people may be more aware of NVC (non verbal communication, body language) due to the fact they cannot hear speech to figure out of someone is being honest or not. I too am very aware of it. I have taken several classes offered by some of the top police investigators in the midwest. I am keenly aware of body language. Remember as a cop, I get lied to for a living. When interviewing a suspect, I pay little attention of what comes out of thier mouth. I look for physical responses to questions, not words.
An old lieutenant that I worked for years ago told me something that explains my observations at deaf nation. "You do not have to call someone a peice of shit to make em feel like one."
Again sorry for the harsh language.

Oh! And for the two people that I did talk to that were just as ignorant, while we were walking around, a guy in his late 40s walked up to us and signed something to us. I do not know ASL, but I do know the sign for a CI, he signed something to us and used the CI gesture. I looked at him and politley said, "I'm sorry I do not know sign language" at a normal rate of speech, (in the exact same manner that I do when having converstaions with deaf acquaintances have asked me to do. Well, after I did this, the guy gave me a nasty look, made a facial gesture simulating speech, waved his hand at me as if he were shooing me off and walked away. Now, what did he misunderstand about what I did?
I encountered the other guy while leaving. He waved to my daughter. She smiled and waved back and said "hi".He signed something to her (once again, I do not know ASL, so I dont know what he said). I saw that he was making an effort to be nice to my daughter so I smiled at him and said, "I'm sorry, she hasnt learned sign language yet" he gave ma a nasty look and walked away. Once again, what is there to misunderstand?

One more thing, you stated "there are deaf people that are against CI because they don't understand it". HOW IS THAT MY PROBLEM?
Once again, they are showing thier ignorance. If you do not understand something, educate yourself before forming an opinion about it, especially if it one that you feel so strongly about. (duh)
One of my personal beliefs in life is that "half of being smart id knowing what you are dumb at". If you do not know what you are talking about, then shut up.

 

[Cloggy]

Cochlear implants do NOT give people normal hearing like you and I experience as hearing people. ....

When you feel discomfort due to some sounds that are normal in general life, is that "Normal Hearing"?
Hearing is not just the sound coming in. It's also the processing of it.
With you, being sensitive to sounds would create a different view of hearing, and due to the discomfort, a negative view.

Regarding "netallic sounds" - I believe that in this forum there have been plenty of people explaining about how it is not like that after some time. I also have met people that were able to recognise the voice of their wife after using the CI for a while. So, the brain will adapt and bring back the old "sound-map".

But stupid me.... you're not interested in other peoples experiences...

 

[Rose Immortal]

I didn't compare cochlear implants to dropping nukes. I only said that arguments in favor of cochlear implants that say things like "Cochlear implants are good because God allowed them to be invented" are invalid because God gave us free will.

I see...I misunderstood. I thought you were suggesting CI's were that destructive.

Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[gnulinuxman]

I see...I misunderstood. I thought you were suggesting CI's were that destructive.

Thanks for clearing it up.

No problem!

 

[Lillys dad]

DFK, I'm sorry, I overlooked your reply yesterday evening. How am I (and others) ganging up on deaf people? I am not bashing anyone except those that fail to realise that I am not the enemy. If I had a problem with the deaf culture, then why would I be here? If I were ganging up on deaf people, why would deaf people agree with what I say?
My point is simple, Just because I hear, and my deaf daughter had a CI, does not mean that I push my beliefs on anyone. I made some choices that feel will benifit my daughter. When she gets older and decides that she no longer wants a CI, all she has to do is take it off. If or when she does that, she will have no problems communicating because she/we will learn asl. So how am I bashing or forcing anything on deaf people?
The whole reason for this thread is to point out that there are very closed minded people within the deaf community that complain about hearing people stereotyping them, when in turn, they have a hearing person around them and they stereotype me. What kind of sense does that make? THE POT AND THE KETTLE DO NOT APPLY. The simple fact that I am introducing my daughter into this culture shows that I am open to it. Please explain how I am bashing in this situation. Please explain how I am forcing anything on anyone.
It seems no matter what I do, there is a percentage of people in the deaf community that will not be accepting of me as long as I can hear. Now that is the pot calling the kettel black isnt it.
As I have said several times, these comments are not directed at the deaf community as a whole. only the narrow % of minded people that find it easier to bury thier head in the sand than to at least be informed when they make a decision or pass judgement on a person.

 

[gnulinuxman]

When you feel discomfort due to some sounds that are normal in general life, is that "Normal Hearing"?
Hearing is not just the sound coming in. It's also the processing of it.
With you, being sensitive to sounds would create a different view of hearing, and due to the discomfort, a negative view.

Probably.

Regarding "netallic sounds" - I believe that in this forum there have been plenty of people explaining about how it is not like that after some time. I also have met people that were able to recognise the voice of their wife after using the CI for a while. So, the brain will adapt and bring back the old "sound-map".

That looks OK for people who are late-deafened, but what about those who were born deaf? If they don't know what sound is, how can they "bring back" a sound map they've never had?

But stupid me.... you're not interested in other peoples experiences...

Please quit assuming that. http://www.alldeaf.com/showpost.php?p=528743&postcount=18 << A post that may just disprove that statement.

 

[sr171soars]

...
That looks OK for people who are late-deafened, but what about those who were born deaf? If they don't know what sound is, how can they "bring back" a sound map they've never had?
...

Actually, that is a very good point! I spoke with my Audi recently and I had many questions and one of them was related to this very thing. She mentioned they really look at those who never really heard (or always had profound losses at best) and see whether they are motivated to work hard using a CI. Due to develpment window of hearing when very young, anybody older especially by their teens or later have the hardest time of all. They have to learn what "sounds" are and get used to that stimulus. It probably explains some of the "headaches" (not from the implant itself but from the sounds) that some of these people get. Worst yet, they are not likely to ever get speech down. The good part is that they can use it for the environmental sounds if they can work that through. It really just depends on the person more than anything else.

 

[Cloggy]

..............
That looks OK for people who are late-deafened, but what about those who were born deaf? If they don't know what sound is, how can they "bring back" a sound map they've never had? .....................

So how would they know it's metallic?

And 1 bird doesn't make a summer

 

[deafdyke]

What kind of sense does that make? THE POT AND THE KETTLE DO NOT APPLY. The simple fact that I am introducing my daughter into this culture shows that I am open to it. Please explain how I am bashing in this situation. Please explain how I am forcing anything on anyone.
It seems no matter what I do, there is a percentage of people in the deaf community that will not be accepting of me as long as I can hear. Now that is the pot calling the kettel black isnt it.
As I have said several times, these comments are not directed at the deaf community as a whole. only the narrow % of minded people that find it easier to bury thier head in the sand than to at least be informed when they make a decision or pass judgement on a person.

Well, please try to remember that there are extremists in ALL movements. I do undy the frustration....some of the folks who shat on you, probaly wouldn't see me as "really deaf" b/c I wear hearing aids and speechread.
But seriously....ten or fifteen years ago, you'd see EVERYONE being anti-CI....now it's getting to be a lot more accepted! Give us time....just be paitent..Hey there are still Deafies who are anti-hearing aid (and a lot of us Deafies here wear hearing aids!)

 

[dkf747]

DFK, I'm sorry, I overlooked your reply yesterday evening. How am I (and others) ganging up on deaf people? I am not bashing anyone except those that fail to realise that I am not the enemy. If I had a problem with the deaf culture, then why would I be here? If I were ganging up on deaf people, why would deaf people agree with what I say?
My point is simple, Just because I hear, and my deaf daughter had a CI, does not mean that I push my beliefs on anyone. I made some choices that feel will benifit my daughter. When she gets older and decides that she no longer wants a CI, all she has to do is take it off. If or when she does that, she will have no problems communicating because she/we will learn asl. So how am I bashing or forcing anything on deaf people?
The whole reason for this thread is to point out that there are very closed minded people within the deaf community that complain about hearing people stereotyping them, when in turn, they have a hearing person around them and they stereotype me. What kind of sense does that make? THE POT AND THE KETTLE DO NOT APPLY. The simple fact that I am introducing my daughter into this culture shows that I am open to it. Please explain how I am bashing in this situation. Please explain how I am forcing anything on anyone.
It seems no matter what I do, there is a percentage of people in the deaf community that will not be accepting of me as long as I can hear. Now that is the pot calling the kettel black isnt it.
As I have said several times, these comments are not directed at the deaf community as a whole. only the narrow % of minded people that find it easier to bury thier head in the sand than to at least be informed when they make a decision or pass judgement on a person.

Perhaps you think of me as one of "them" but I can assure you that I am not. I have my opinions on the choice some parents make, but I have not made those opinions known. My beef with this thread is not what you have done with your daughter. I also understand what you mean by the dirty looks and other behavior of those you saw at Deaf Nation. I do not like the way you were treated. However, this thread is loaded with comments attacking "them". I got sick of that and responded to it. I was not necessarily referring to you specifically, but rather the general tone of the thread. As far as I'm concerned I can understand Deaf reaction at Deaf Nation just by viewing this thread. They have become protective of their culture because everyone outside is trying to destroy it. I can understand that, and it is unfortunate that you had to experience that. I just don't see, however, how the kinds of comments I have read on here are helping to solve the problem. I don't like the negativity from either side. Does this help you to understand why I posted? Again, my cmments were not about you or the choices you made for your child.

 

[Lillys dad]

DFK, thats fair. I can understand why people are protective of the culture. When i refer to "they", I am referring to those that look down on me, in the manner that I described. I am not referring to the deaf culture as a whole. I am sorry if you do not like the term they. I realize that it has a of hint of sepratism to it. But, due to the circumstances I described, there is not much else that I can use to refer to the group that piss me off. I'm sorry if I didn't walk up to them and ask each of them what thier name was.
You must also understand my frustration. I am trying to introduce my daughter to a culture that she is part of. The simple act of me being there, and the fact my daughter has a ci obviously pissed off alot of people. WHY? They looked at me, and my daughter and passed judgement on me in the exact same manner that many hearing people have passed judgement on them at one point or another. So is that considered to be fair play (when I am not giulty of anyhting) or is being hypocritical? To steroetype someone is wrong, it doesnt matter what side you are on.... right?

 

[dkf747]

Yes, that's right. I'm glad you took your daughter there and disappointed about what happened as well as you are.

 

[deafdyke]

There are Deaf people who are against the CI because they don't understand it, too. But most just are tired of it getting thrown in their faces a lot.

Good point! I'm conservative about the CI, b/c it seems like it's pushed as a WONDERFUL MIRICLE CURE by a segment of the population.

Originally Posted by Lillys dad
The people that look down on me and my daughter (in my opinion) are no better than the KKK, black panthers, or neo-nazi skin heads. They hate us because we are different than they are. They are afraid of anyone that does not see they world the same as they do.

Uh, some do, but I, a hearing person, have been accepted into the Deaf Culture and participate somewhat actively in it. It isn't about ability to hear or not--it's about acceptance of who your daughter is. Many don't see implanting your daughter as accepting who she is, and they don't think you'd accept them either.

Yes, Sorry for repeating myself but I think that the Deaf folks around where you live, might be more conservative since many if not most of the implantees they see may be products of stereotypical Oral upbringing (that is to say, not Oral as a first language, but rather oral as the ONLY language!)
Maybe too it's not a matter of acceptance, but rather more of a once bitten twice shy sort of thing. Some extreme oral parents may have turned them off. Remember until relatively recently virtually ALL dhh kids were orally educated. I don't approve of them shunning you, but I can undy their way of thinking. Some of the Oral parents out there are EXTREMELY audist.
It will take time to break down barriers.....but things are changing for the better!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[greema]

DFK, thats fair. I can understand why people are protective of the culture. When i refer to "they", I am referring to those that look down on me, in the manner that I described. I am not referring to the deaf culture as a whole. I am sorry if you do not like the term they. I realize that it has a of hint of sepratism to it. But, due to the circumstances I described, there is not much else that I can use to refer to the group that piss me off. I'm sorry if I didn't walk up to them and ask each of them what thier name was.
You must also understand my frustration. I am trying to introduce my daughter to a culture that she is part of. The simple act of me being there, and the fact my daughter has a ci obviously pissed off alot of people. WHY? They looked at me, and my daughter and passed judgement on me in the exact same manner that many hearing people have passed judgement on them at one point or another. So is that considered to be fair play (when I am not giulty of anyhting) or is being hypocritical? To steroetype someone is wrong, it doesnt matter what side you are on.... right?

That was SO wrong of them to treat you and your family that way and I really want to apologize for St. Louis! This is a great city and there are MORE of us that are on your side! After all, isn't this where CID is located at? I had gone to CID myself and left in the early 60's to attend a public school. And the CID you described is NOT the CID I remember, so obviously their (what do you call it? "style" "theory" "method of teaching") has really changed so much for the better!

AND I want to apologize for the militant Deaf on this thread -- it is NOT their right to attack you like that! It makes me want to ....

You and your family will eventually find the right fit for Lilly! Great job!

 

[greema]

By exposing her to Deaf culture?

Good repartee!

 

[greema]

Interpretrator: Even if they come there with their child hoping to expose her to Deaf culture? That seems like a somewhat self-defeating attitude. The Deaf community is going to have to start accepting people with CIs who nevertheless want to learn sign and become part of the community, or the culture really is going to vanish.
I understand if you don't want people there preaching about CIs to you, but it sounds to me like Lilys_dad was there trying to open his child's horizons.


Cloggy: I am so sorry that you had that experience. One would expect that interest in Deaf culture would be welcomed.
Lack of signlanguage is not an excuse to be treated that way. I think that the reaction from "Deaf Images" above this post gives an idea of the mindset of the people that treated your family so bad.
It's their loss.

I hope that you will be able to keep contact with the few deaf/CI people that you met and were helpfull. These contacts might be the most valuable persons in your and your daughters life.

Lillys dad AND mom -- Interpretrator and Cloggy made very important points that I wholly agree with! Don't let these scum bother you!

 

[Lillys dad]

Greema, I'm not going anywhere. I have met waaay to many people that I enjoy talking to and learning from. I look at the whole deaf culture thing as an issue that will effect my daughter. So, like any other thing that gets passed on to your children, you want to make it better for them than it was for you.