Deaf education: Oralism

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jillio said:
Get over it. Its been explained, and you chose not to understand.
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I have been over it and from where I sit it's you that chooses to not understand. Just because you feel you have explained it doesn't make it a valid explanation or even one that has merit. Again... let it go
 
rockdrummer said:
I have been over it and from where I sit it's you that chooses to not understand. Just because you feel you have explained it doesn't make it a valid explanation or even one that has merit. Again... let it go
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You asked for an explanation....you got one. And then you asked for an explanation again...you got one. Then you asked for an explanation again...you got one. Obviously, the problem is that you didn't get the explanation you were looking for.

These games are getting very tiresome.
 
I am dizzy...RD and Jillo, not a big deal on who said what. Important physical abuse is not happening to deaf kids for signing but now we just need to stop the mental abuse that happens to them in oral-only prgrams especially neglect which is very rampant.
 
Yes, please let it go. That Jillio has a lot to offer is a given. However, I also think RD is a truly curious, caring individual who keeps his mind open so let's not lose either one of you.
 
jillio said:
Who said there are no prelingually, profoundly deaf children with a CI that can speak? "

Harlan Lane, that's who.

"For god's sake, there are prelingually, profoundly dea children that can speak without a CI."

Never said there were not.


"What has that got to do with anything?"

Thank you for answering your own question.

"Is speech the end all and be all for you?
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Nope, never said it was.
 
rockdrummer said:
I read your entire quotes and still don't see where you came to the conclusion that I have a hard time believing the experiences of deaf individuals. I'ts ok. You are incorrect in your assumptions but I can see how you don't realize that based on your responses. Lets just move on. For the record I do not have a hard time believing experiences shared by others as you have suggested. Just because I asked Buffalo which year the physical abuse occured in doesn't mean I don't believe her.
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Given that they occurred in the 50s, 60s and 1970s I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that these experiences did not happen. It was common for teachers to hit children regardless of hearing status in this time period because corporal punishment was allowed. Even in the Catholic primary school I briefly attended in the 1980s, I can remember seeing a teacher having a temper tantrum, shaking a child by the shoulders and slamming him against the wall.

It never happened to me though. I was educated orally in the middle 1970s to late 80s and had for the most part nice teachers who didn't hit me or threaten me. They made it fun. In some cases, I was favoured and it made it a bit of a problem for me with the other kids. I did have some stupid teachers in the mainstream school who would talk past me, who treated me like I was a waste of time in music lessons (I retaliated by refusing to go to music lessons anymore) but mostly they were good and believed in me.

I personally think that it would rarely happen today due to the amount of legislation around today that protects the child.
 
Cloggy said:
Pete, - you funny !

But on a serious note.
There's so much talk from you about you going to lawschool.... have you actually applied...?? (and even more important - been accepted.??)
Whn you decide to apply, don't show your posts on AllDeaf as reference.....
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In about a year is when I'll be taking the LSAT, then I start applying. Once I'm accepted, it's anyone's guess where I'll go.
 
rockdrummer said:
........Again... let it go
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RockDrummer...
In any discussion, Jill will have the last word, and no matter if you are right or wrong... she will be right.
Anything you say after this will be you starting a new discussion.
 
R2D2 said:
Given that they occurred in the 50s, 60s and 1970s I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that these experiences did not happen. It was common for teachers to hit children regardless of hearing status in this time period because corporal punishment was allowed. Even in the Catholic primary school I briefly attended in the 1980s, I can remember seeing a teacher having a temper tantrum, shaking a child by the shoulders and slamming him against the wall.

It never happened to me though. I was educated orally in the middle 1970s to late 80s and had for the most part nice teachers who didn't hit me or threaten me. They made it fun. In some cases, I was favoured and it made it a bit of a problem for me with the other kids. I did have some stupid teachers in the mainstream school who would talk past me, who treated me like I was a waste of time in music lessons (I retaliated by refusing to go to music lessons anymore) but mostly they were good and believed in me.

I personally think that it would rarely happen today due to the amount of legislation around today that protects the child.
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Thanks for sharing that R2D2. I agree about the whole punishment thing. I know hearing kids that were wacked with rulers as well because it was part of the disiplinary practices in the old days. The reason I asked the question was to a) satisfy my curiosity and b) to find out if it was still happening today. If the answer to B0 is yes, then I would personally do everything in my power to report the offenders to the authorities.

Instead I get accused of not believing what others are telling me about their experiences. I'ts very transparant to me when someone displays such arrogance and dis-regard for the words of others simply to promote an agenda. Sometimes it makes me wonder why I even bother.
 
Cloggy said:
RockDrummer...
In any discussion, Jill will have the last word, and no matter if you are right or wrong... she will be right.
Anything you say after this will be you starting a new discussion.
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You know it's funny. I have always given folks the benefit of the doubt no matter what others may say about an individual. I do that because sometimes the views of others are subjective based on their experiences and also because I believe in being fair. In time if others are correct then that persons true colors will eventually come through as I am seeing in this case. My opinion for what it's worth is that she is quite arrogant in her quest to serve the deaf community which is sad. She could be far more effective if she had more of an open mind and the capacity to admit when she is clearly wrong or mistaken. She doesn't realize that she is actually hurting her cause instead of helping it by the way she conducts herself on this board.
 
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