Deaf education: Oralism

[rick48]

You know..................I'll have to look this up for a cite....I think I read it in Exceptional Parent, that abuse of kids with disabilites is VERY common.
It's probaly due to many factors, but you know one major factor might be due to methodology. Jackie and Rick I'm NOT attacking you when I say this, but oral only can be VERY energy consuming b/c it's essentially therapy 24/7....It insists that the parents serve as therapists.
Oh and Jackie, maybe your daughter's reading level is the reason why she's not making straight As. Sure its only a grade level below (not TOO bad) but still.................

Once again, some quote from some guy in some magazine sometime ago.....I do not take any offence because you have no clue what you are talking about and are just making it up as you go along. What you describe is so far from the reality we experienced raising our child.

BTW ever going to name just one of those SAT imporving toys that we parents have to have? I betcha a hackey sack is one of them!

 

[Cloggy]

Oh, cloggy, you are very incorrect regarding your assumptions of Harlan Lane......

Oh really... is that the assumption that he knows about Deaf culture and History.? I thought I was correct about that.
Enlighten me!

 

[Cloggy]

......, maybe your daughter's reading level is the reason why she's not making straight As. Sure its only a grade level below (not TOO bad) but still.................

If "A" is the best grade, this is above the average grade for students.
Why is it nessasary for someone to read above the average grade?

 

[rick48]

Interestingly, Harlan Lane is neither a mother, nor the parent of a deaf child, and knowing a lot about D/deaf history, he has no clue about deaf children that can hear with CI.

"Tell the parents I said, "You are the adult, you bear the burden to give your child all the possibilities life can offer" - Cloggy

You are so right Cloggy he is not deaf and he is also childless but yet professes to be an expert on how to raise deaf children. He called the ci operation brain surgery on "60 Minutes"! He still maintains that there are no profoundly prelingually deafened kids who can speak with cis but refuses to meet with the parents of these kids along with their children.

You are not incorrect on your assumptions but 100% right about your facts.
W2G!

Remember Harlan Lane has been proven wrong!

 

[jillio]

Oh really... is that the assumption that he knows about Deaf culture and History.? I thought I was correct about that.
Enlighten me!

Stop playing childish games, cloggy. If you would attempt to enter into an educated, well informed discussion instead of spending all of your time trying to play games, you would be much better off. You are completely wasting the time of others with your tactics. Your effort would be much better spent becoming informed rather than using what limited knowledge you do have to attempt to play mind games at which you are less than skilled.

 

[jillio]

Once again, some quote from some guy in some magazine sometime ago.....I do not take any offence because you have no clue what you are talking about and are just making it up as you go along. What you describe is so far from the reality we experienced raising our child.

BTW ever going to name just one of those SAT imporving toys that we parents have to have? I betcha a hackey sack is one of them!

This post has been reported. You will not come in here and continue to attempt these bullying tactics of yours.

And get off the "my child" kick. We are discussing oralism in deaf education, not your single deaf child. Get out of that self centered box of yours.

 

[jillio]

You are so right Cloggy he is not deaf and he is also childless but yet professes to be an expert on how to raise deaf children. He called the ci operation brain surgery on "60 Minutes"! He still maintains that there are no profoundly prelingually deafened kids who can speak with cis but refuses to meet with the parents of these kids along with their children.

He maintains no such thing, and your claim that he does is indication of your woeful ignorance of the subject.

You are not incorrect on your assumptions but 100% right about your facts.
W2G!

Remember Harlan Lane has been proven wrong!

By whom?

 

[rick48]

By whom?

Find the article I posted months ago and by thousands of ci kids.

 

[jillio]

Find the article I posted months ago and by thousands of ci kids.

I've got it in hard copy. And if you will recall, when the entire article is accessed, rather than only a few select quotes from a few particiapnts, the results are not what you imply at all. Conclusions of the article still state that the students performing at the highest levels are those with CI that are exposed to both sign and speech.

Let's not beat a dead horse.

 

[rockdrummer]

This happened to me in 60's. The teacher with a piece of wood teached 4th grade so I was in her class in late 60's. My state banned corporal punishment in mid 70's when I was almost done with high school in another state.
I looked up on coporal punishment for more information and was shocked that coporal punishment is still legal in some states.
Is your child at risk of smoking? - FamilyEducation.com
Facts About Corporal Punishment
CORPORAL PUNISHMENT OF CHILDREN (SPANKING): introduction and* legality

I seriously doubt that deaf children are free from abuse today. Shel90 and Deafdyke told you their stories that are later on from my time. Today the deaf children's parents don't include them in group conversations. Mine don't eventhough they already know that I will eventually lose my sight. That is why I am planning on moving out of state in order to build my support (notice I didn't said rebuild as I didn't really have that in the first place). I want to go to some place warm where I don't have to worry about tripping over snow or slipping on some ice. I still want to work so I will have to figure this one out by looking at products for the blind.

Thanks Buffalo. That is all I was curious about was the year the physical abuse was happening. I'm sure there are other forms of abuse and my question was not to minimalize anything nor do I have a hard time believing you as it's been suggested.

 

[rockdrummer]

Jillio,

Here's the conversation as I see it. Focus on me being told that I have a hard time believing the experiences shared to me by deaf individuals. I still don't know where that is comming from.

It started with Buffalo's Post #2 http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/44593-deaf-education-oralism.html#post829324
Where he talks about physical abuse that he experienced.
My curiosity below was based on the physical abuse Buffalo talked about.

I am curious as to what year this occured in.

Then you said.

Why do you have such a hard time believing what these deaf individuals tell you, rd?

My response

What makes you think I don't believe them?

You responded citing what I said in post #4

Post #4 "I don't think this abuse happens anymore." "We have evolved and changed...."

Then I said.

I'm sorry but I dont' see how post #4 gives any impression that I don't believe what others are telling me about such abuse. And to be clear its the physical abuse as mentioned in the post I was responding to that I am referring to.

And your response

I assumed that it wa the physical abuse that you were referencing

If you assumed it's the physical abuse I am talking about then I have to ask again; What makes you think I have a hard time believing the experiences shared by deaf individuals? If you just don't have the capacity to retract your comment about me not believing deaf individuals then lets just move on. To continue would be like watching a dog chase it's tail around in circles.

 

[rockdrummer]

Despite what the others tell you to calm you down, perhaps you need to reread what you said here: http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/44593-deaf-education-oralism.html#post829617

I, personally, don't go for people who speak out of both corners of their mouth. To read what more shel went through makes me even more determined to go to law school to STOP this from happening to any deaf/hoh person again. Better get your checkbook ready for lawsuits that won't stop.

No offense Pete but while your comment gives the appearance of substance all one need do is exactly what you have suggested and re-read the conversation. And if you are suggesting that I am talking out of both sides of my mouth then please by all means show me exactly what you are talking about. Where have I talked out of both sides of my mouth? How a simple question about the year that Buffalo experienced physical abuse turns into law suits is beyond me. I think people may be reading way to much in to my question. It was truly a curiousity about the year in which Buffalo experienced physical abuse. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[rick48]

I've got it in hard copy. And if you will recall, when the entire article is accessed, rather than only a few select quotes from a few particiapnts, the results are not what you imply at all. Conclusions of the article still state that the students performing at the highest levels are those with CI that are exposed to both sign and speech.

Let's not beat a dead horse.

Don't know what you are referring to since the article I posted was from the Washington Post but if you are still trying to maintain that there are no prelingually profoundly deaf children who can speak with the use of a ci as Lane maintains then you are as mistaken as he. You are beating a dead horse for that misrepresentation has been proven false over a decade ago.

 

[Sweetmind]

:bsflag:

Originally Posted by Cloggy
Interestingly, Harlan Lane is neither a mother, nor the parent of a deaf child, and knowing a lot about D/deaf history, he has no clue about deaf children that can hear with CI.

"Tell the parents I said, "You are the adult, you bear the burden to give your child all the possibilities life can offer" - Cloggy

:bsflag:



Interestingly, Harlan is a human being filled with feelings of LOVE for the Deaf children and he knows a lot about d/Deaf history. He has a clue about d/Deaf and even Latened Deaf who was hearing children that cannot/can hear or can't understand or are able to hear but cannot understand everything with devices. He knew the truth but you continue to be in denial, Cloggy/Rick48

You need to un-Clog your brain! We gave you many excellent, valid points; you dont give a hoot about other d/Deaf children's best interest (two way street). I dont care what you do with your deaf child but I would like to say good luck. It s too late for you to change your mind anyhow. Nevertheless, other innocent parents have the right to see the truth. So be it! I dont need your mind games and bigot attitude to supercede our d/Deaf, Hoh, and Latened Deaf's true experiences that had happened from the past up to today that has not changed for the better yet.

These information is not just for you only, if you mind, and stay out of it.. Let people read it and have them express or ask any questions. YOu are nothing to me because I m the winner after all with my freedom of speech and respect that I have had been doing that all along.

Guess what your child is no different from me, if you mind. She and I were born as a profoundly deaf as is. Some areas she might understand while I dont.. Some areas I might understand while she doesn't that's very typical because no one has the same level of deafness that DR couldnt find the answer. That s all there is to it. No one can fix our deafness and adjust our brains if you mind. NO one can stop our eyes from looking at a person s lips with or without devices, if you mind. NO difference! She will be left out in some ways as I strongly believe because of all of your bigot attitude that might get you something that you lose ur own soul and destroy your daughter s soul. .. What a pity!:bsflag:

Fed up with the childish audist attitudes in here!

Sweetmind

 

[jillio]

Jillio,

Here's the conversation as I see it. Focus on me being told that I have a hard time believing the experiences shared to me by deaf individuals. I still don't know where that is comming from.

It started with Buffalo's Post #2 http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/44593-deaf-education-oralism.html#post829324
Where he talks about physical abuse that he experienced.
My curiosity below was based on the physical abuse Buffalo talked about.

Then you said.

My response

You responded citing what I said in post #4

Then I said.

And your response

If you assumed it's the physical abuse I am talking about then I have to ask again; What makes you think I have a hard time believing the experiences shared by deaf individuals? If you just don't have the capacity to retract your comment about me not believing deaf individuals then lets just move on. To continue would be like watching a dog chase it's tail around in circles.

Buffalo is a she.

Selective quotes, rd. You left out about 1/2 of my responses that already gave you the exact wording that led me to that conclusion, as well as a couple of psots following that clarified.

 

[jillio]

Don't know what you are referring to since the article I posted was from the Washington Post but if you are still trying to maintain that there are no prelingually profoundly deaf children who can speak with the use of a ci as Lane maintains then you are as mistaken as he. You are beating a dead horse for that misrepresentation has been proven false over a decade ago.

Who said there are no prelingually, profoundly deaf children with a CI that can speak? For god's sake, there are prelingually, profoundly dea children that can speak without a CI. What has that got to do with anything?

Is speech the end all and be all for you?

 

[rockdrummer]

Buffalo is a she.

Selective quotes, rd. You left out about 1/2 of my responses that already gave you the exact wording that led me to that conclusion, as well as a couple of psots following that clarified.

I read your entire quotes and still don't see where you came to the conclusion that I have a hard time believing the experiences of deaf individuals. I'ts ok. You are incorrect in your assumptions but I can see how you don't realize that based on your responses. Lets just move on. For the record I do not have a hard time believing experiences shared by others as you have suggested. Just because I asked Buffalo which year the physical abuse occured in doesn't mean I don't believe her.

 

[jillio]

I read your entire quotes and still don't see where you came to the conclusion that I have a hard time believing the experiences of deaf individuals. I'ts ok. You are incorrect in your assumptions but I can see how you don't realize that based on your responses. Lets just move on. For the record I do not have a hard time believing experiences shared by others as you have suggested. Just because I asked Buffalo which year the physical abuse occured in doesn't mean I don't believe her.

It wasn't the question about the year, it was the statements following. I already quoted them for you previously.

 

[rockdrummer]

It wasn't the question about the year, it was the statements following. I already quoted them for you previously.

Right, I got that and still don't see where those statements make you think I have a hard time believing what I have been told. But for the sake of sanity I really don't care. Watching a dog chase it's tail makes me dizzy.

 

[jillio]

Right, I got that and still don't see where those statements make you think I have a hard time believing what I have been told. But for the sake of sanity I really don't care. Watching a dog chase it's tail makes me dizzy.

Get over it. Its been explained, and you chose not to understand.