Deaf education: Oralism

[jillio]

Jillo you did not answer my question. I am trying to understand what you are saying. I asked you how do you know that we oral teachers of deaf punish our students.

Actually, jackie,that wasn't what you asked. You asked how I would know how oral teachers were trained. But since you changed your question, I will be happy to answer that, as well. Byt he reports of numerous students who were educated in an oral only environment.

Then you said that "How would I know? I see the results in the literacy rates of your students." Let's just say you are right but I do not agree but let's just say you are right. Because deaf students literacy rates are down that means that oral teachers like myself punish our students.

Again, your question was about your training. I responded to that. I know that the training that oral teachers are receiving is parrallel to the training that all oral teachers have received throughthe results that are achieved with oral deaf students....that is, literacy rates.

You are making accusations but you do go into oral classes to see what they do. How dare you say that an oral teacher of the deaf punishes their students because they do not use their voice. How dare you say I would punish my oral preschool students because they do not use their voice. I would never ever punish my students because they do not use their voice. I would monitor and report to the parents their child is not using their voice.

Here we go, bringing everything back to you. Did I say anywhere in this post that Jackie punishes her students"? No I did not. This post was about oral education in general, not "jackie's classroom". Once again, you are taking everything that is said, and bringing it back to yourself specifically.

Just because I use a different approach you are accusing me of punishing my students. That is so wrong Jillo so wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are just making accusation because I do not believe in what you believe. I can respect what you do for a living and how you have raised your son why can't you respect what I do for a living and how I have raised my children.
I haven't accused you of anything, jackie. It is all in your head. Once again, you are trolling and trying to bring dissention to what was an intelligent discussion of the issues. I
Just a side note my daughter who is slight behind her peers is reading at a 9th grade level. when she was tested in 10th grade. My son the ninth grader is reading a 10th grade level. My oral deaf children literacy rates are quite good.

The thread about your children was closed. We are talking about deaf children as a population group, not your children. And jsut because your deaf children are reading only a year behind and a year ahead respectively, does not mean that it holds true for deaf children as a whole. If you bothered to read the research and the articles pertinent to the subject, you would know that.

Once again, jackie, if you have pertinent information to add regarding methodology or statistical information that could actually add a new dimension to the discussion, please do so. But to attempt to bring a discussion that was started several days prior to your joining in down to a discussion regarding your children is absolutely ridicuals.

 

[Roadrunner]

Mod Note:


Just a note of caution: Please 'do' be careful how one strings their words together in comments/views without perhaps giving or getting the conception or notation that any member here in AD is 'directly or indirectly' involved with. Bearing that in mind, 'respect' is the key that holds all discussions/debatings on nuetral grounds despite members' backgrounds, qualifications, etc.,...let's strive to maintain that vitality, please.






~RR

 

[jillio]

My thought and maybe his I am nosure. I believe the deaf adults that this sort of stuff use to happen. It doesn't happen any more. I have been in many many oral classes out here in CA, I know it doesn't.

The deaf students say otherwise.

 

[deafdyke]

Actually Jackie, not to attack you but jillo and shel are RIGHT. Although oral education has moved on from physical punishment, the mental side effects are STILL very much there! You've obviously never been teased b/c of your voice, you've obviously never been corrected CONSTANTLY on word pronouncation, you've obviously never been yelled at in the library(or other places) b/c you can't hear how loud you are, you've obviously never been thought of as retarded b/c of the way you talk (and even I got that, and everyone says I speak like a Harvard professor)
The way dhh kids are "punished" is more about attitude now. Even you yourself have said "I want my kids to be oral so they can have more oppertunties"
The gross majority of oral programs operate on more of a "healthy normal" approach, rather then a "this is a approach among MANY that they can use.
Deaf students aren't alone with getting this attitude. I have friends who are blind/low vision who say that the education/services they receieved were very "healthy normal" (ie function as a fake sighted kid) this attitude is prevalent in PT programs for physical handicapped kids (ask anyone who's attended Easter Seals or UCP about how much emphasis is placed on walking)

Oh, and rick, the reason why jillo brought up the mainstream is b/c it does seem to be EVERY oral program's end goal to totally mainstream their students.
And yes, the deaf schools/programs aren't some wonderful utopia. There are bullies and mean people there as there are everywhere. But in the mainstream there usually aren't too many "deaf" related resources to help kids who are having problems.

 

[deafskeptic]

I grew up in the late 70s and throughout the 80s (graduated high school in 1990) so it wasn't too long ago. Nobody hit me or anything but I was constantly criticized by my speech teachers especially the one I had in middle school. She wud make me repeat the letter "X "for every session and constantly told me that I need to work harder on making it sound perfect. Mind u, that was in isolation so when she would tell me to use sentences with words that had X in them, I wud screw up and she would slam her fist on the table and tell me that I am not trying hard enough. It got to the point where I cried and I was 13 or 14 years old..not a 3 or 4 year old. That was how bad it was. That and other situations such as the contant bullying of kids calling me "deaf and dumb" plus more year after year put a huge emotional toll on me. I tried telling my teachers or my mom about those situations but they would tell me that I am being dramatic or I need to toughen up. To me, that was a form of mental abuse cuz I started blaming myself for not having the perfect speech skills nor not being able to understand everything that is being said in class.

It is like an abusive husband telling his wife that she is no good or that everything she does is worthless. That was the message I got from some teachers, most of my speech teachers and the kids who constantly critized me for my less than perfect oral skills.

Yep..I was abused but in a more subtle way...no child should have to endure so much negativity about his or herself year after year.

That lead me to my self-abusive behaviors in my 20s cuz I felt that I wasn't worthy enough to have a good life or to have happiness.

How's that for a good well-rounded oral education? I think my educational upbringing was a joke.

Your speech teacher reminds me of the one that I had in grade school. That speech teacher of mine would overreact to everything. I was a bit afraid of her.

I do not recall anyone ever making fun of my speech other than the time I mispronounced the letter w when reciting the alphabet in the 4 grade or when the girls in middle school asked me where I shopped and they'd giggle every time I said Regency Square. I can not pronounce the letter R in certain words correctly like rare as in I want my steak done med rare. I speak well enough to pass as Hearing 95% of the time. I'm told I don't sound deaf now that I have been implanted.

Although I rarely had a bad experince with the oral program when I was enrolled in it from preschool to 3rd grade, some of my classmates were not so fortunate. I remember when I was dating some HOH guy, his mother told me that he got punished for using sign on the bus on the way to the oral program. I was a bit taken aback. That HOH bf could speak on the phone and he really didn't have deaf speech or anything like that. Both of us were in the same oral program when we were little.

I do have vague memories of being slapped by my mother when I was young and we were doing speech stuff. It was only when I entered mainstream that things got bad for me.

 

[rockdrummer]

"We have evolved and changed, and I don't believe this type of abuse happens anymore." My point is whether it is physical abuse or abuse of a more subtle variety, kids continue to be abused. Rather than minimizing past experiences of deaf people, by saying it doesn't occur at this point in time, we open the door for the more subtle abuses to continue. The fact that oralism ever led to any abuse at all is a reason to question the methods.

Good God! You basically accuse me of calling deafies liars when nothing can be further from the truth. Then you twist the conversation so that you don't appear to be wrong about anything. I NEVER minimized anything and have stated many times that the physical abuse from the past is tragic. And AGAIN.. I said the PHYSICAL abuse which is what the poster was mentioning. It's one thing to make a point about the abuse of today. I have no problem with that. But, don't tell me or paint a picutre that I think deafies are lying to me about what they have experienced. If you truly believe I think that way then you have no clue about the kind of person I am.

 

[jillio]

Good God! You basically accuse me of calling deafies liars when nothing can be further from the truth. Then you twist the conversation so that you don't appear to be wrong about anything. I NEVER minimized anything and have stated many times that the physical abuse from the past is tragic. And AGAIN.. I said the PHYSICAL abuse which is what the poster was mentioning. It's one thing to make a point about the abuse of today. I have no problem with that. But, don't tell me or paint a picutre that I think deafies are lying to me about what they have experienced. If you truly believe I think that way then you have no clue about the kind of person I am.

Whoa! Calm down. I never accused you calling anyone anything. I asked a question, and stated that I didn't understand why it was difficult for you to beleive the stories these deaf individuals were telling you. No need to get so defensive.

A lot of hearing parents are reluctant to believe some of the stories of this nature. It is understandable becasue to beleive this means that their child, under certain circumstances, is subject tothe same time of treatment from some members of hearing society, and no one wants to accept that this could happen to thier child. Its painful to a parent. Your son is still relatively young, and it has been my experience, and I believe the experience of the majority of these posters, that the ostracism gets worse beginning at about 4th grade and continuing through high school for mainstreamed deaf kids. I wasn't suggesting in any way that you were calling these people liars, but simply that you were not understanding that things have not changed as much as perhaps we would all like to believe.

I understand that you were speaking about the physical abuse, and the only reason I brought up other forms of abuse was to highlight the point that perhaps the means have changed, but the consequences haven't.

The only thing I know about you, rd, is what you have chosen to share in your posts on these forums. And if you will recall, I believe I have said more than once that I believe that you are a parent who is open minded, and that truly wants to learn and understand. I have, in fact, gone out of my way several times to explain, and re-explain a point that I was making that you would have difficulty understanding, and would do so at your request. And I have also told you that as long as I felt someone was atempting to undersand, rather than simply create an argument, I would continue to do so.

Please keep in mind, that a statement remarking on difficulty in understanding something is often a request for you to explain to me why it is difficult for you, so that perhaps I can explain it from a perspective that addresses the area you are having difficulty with. It is not an accusation in any form.

 

[Sweetmind]

Good God! You basically accuse me of calling deafies liars when nothing can be further from the truth. Then you twist the conversation so that you don't appear to be wrong about anything. I NEVER minimized anything and have stated many times that the physical abuse from the past is tragic. And AGAIN.. I said the PHYSICAL abuse which is what the poster was mentioning. It's one thing to make a point about the abuse of today. I have no problem with that. But, don't tell me or paint a picutre that I think deafies are lying to me about what they have experienced. If you truly believe I think that way then you have no clue about the kind of person I am.

Hi Rockdrummer, Many people like you dont really know of all the kinds of abuse that Deaf children went through in their own homes, Deaf (Oral) Schools, and public schools; abuse that still exists today.

Jillo 's

The only thing I know about you, rd, is what you have chosen to share in your posts on these forums. And if you will recall, I believe I have said more than once that I believe that you are a parent who is open minded, and that truly wants to learn and understand. I have, in fact, gone out of my way several times to explain, and re-explain a point that I was making that you would have difficulty understanding, and would do so at your request. And I have also told you that as long as I felt someone was atempting to undersand, rather than simply create an argument, I would continue to do so.

She is totally right about that; I agree with her quote.

On the other hand, I applaud your effort to learn more and become more educated about Deaf issues; that s what I love to see. You did fine and asked many questions and shared your thoughts. I can see you are full of curiosity and want to learn about us and our Deaf life. One question: Have you had the opportunity to mingle with many Deafies in social events lately? If not, then that explains your lack of understanding about oral issues. There are some people with audist attitudes that are running their mouths here. They think they know it all and denied themselves the truth, even after we shared a lot of things that needed to be heard or telling the truth NOW. These Audists are trying to be a huge influence on innocent parents of deaf children in many ways, They make hearing people think that it is sooo horrible to have deaf children in their lives so therefore the parents then disregard Sign Language as an option.


I truly do not see how Jillo accused you from her statement. it seems that you are having your own issues....and possibly could be a little too paranoid.

Anyway, Here are some examples of AUDISM s abuse toward Deaf children since they were born from day one until today.

1. There is a very high percent of physical abuse outside of the home and in schools. No matter what you think.. It s the worst for those Deaf children who are very passive and couldnt express their own true feelings in ASL; that 's how Audist people ignored our Deaf children 's needs that should come first. Sign language is still forbidden toward CI deaf children; that is not necessary for them to be separate from other Deaf children who don't have one.. Scoffs! That dictatorship attitude tells us that Audist people want to destroy our deafness and Deaf people in this society completely.


2. I have seen this topic somewhere in this forum and another forum. That other verbal/sexual abuses that someone created the topic "Deaf girls are easy". That is a big turn off statement. that is very prejudicial and discriminatory toward Deaf girls. thats leads into a physical abuse, that has not ended yet, by many men for years and years.


3. Now I have a chance to say this bluntly out loud, these audism people, who went to Deafchat site, tried to break too many rules that we are trying to keep it clean and fun.. Most of them sexually harrass / verbally abuse other chatters... to degrade our Deaf languages and many others in your own oral speaking that comes out of your mouth. Most of people dont read the rules or ignore them even though you must agree with them in order to enter the chatroom in the first place. As far as you saw those topics in here that went too far as you knew the answer. RME!

A. People love to blame Deaf school. Their purpose is to destroy the image of Deaf schools. However, Audism people did this all along from day one to today. No matter where u are.. Audism people in this society are emotional and mental abusers toward our Deaf children against their will.


I want to say thank you for standing up and letting them know that you are more welcomed to be with us all along. All over topics that they think I am against hearing people that makes me laugh so hard because I hate Audism people who dont have any respect for people who have a very positive outlook about our deafness. Thats why I am there to stop the degradation of our Deaf people s Natural abilities and adaptations. Many times I have tried to bring up anything that relates to Educational issues however they came at me with bitter feelings and namecalled us for a long long time. So Thats why I m very outspoken and want people to know the whole truth that they are afraid of .

So this is why I dont understand this anymore; after all, they think it s okay to make a joke article or make fun of about a little deaf gal? That is very abusive to our Deaf children s image of the Deaf community. It is also Very ignorant!

That topic ~Deaf girls are easy~ reminds me of Jake O Donnell aka Bush, whistleblower, beast 666, that is ghost writer relates to this friend of Cloggy/Boult who destroyed many topics and too many nicknames that he hasnt faced himself since he is a Latened deaf with a very stinky audist attitude as far as I know. Thats what he did created this article about CI nonsense and Audism hearing / deafies are lying to themselves after all most of those statements are not true that u are fall for it. What a sly joke! Many of them are true facts that had happens in this society that u dont want to hear the truth.


Thats what he wants...all Deaf schools to be closed...all Deaf children to have CI after they born deaf as is. Everything that Audism want to destroy us and our Deaf children 's natural abilities and adaptation. Thats a CHILD ABUSE. That s the other issue of showing it to me that people are punished Deaf children for who we are in Deaf/Mainstream schools while Audism people did it to themselves. NO one accept Deaf children from day one all along that is showing a true color. Something wrong here that has to be a Hearing child first.

NO wonder Audism people and Positive outlook people are not getting along that makes a big sense. People do not understand the severe problem of Deaf children's self esteem / emotional/mental condition. I dont see any respect for Deaf children s Rights and feel this is not totally right for us to have our plights of suffering more than 200 years. Deaf children's need that should come first. After all, the Hearing Audism people looked for the easy way out and don't have a real communication with their own Deaf children's needs. That should comes first from day one until now. That's their own naturally communication not audism people's communication of Hearing Standard only.

No matter if they can speak fair or good they still have the communication barrier between the parents and Deaf children or Deaf and Hearing people in this society. That hasn't changed a bit for years in today.

" Any metal objects does cost you or damage anything that harms Deaf children's Mind, Body, and Soul - which belongs to them not you. I strongly feel that no one can cross a person's boundaries is the answer. "

Too much mixed message from Hearing people as usual. They dont give a hoot about us and being ourselves as being deaf or totally deaf from the beginning. After all, Medical professional did use their biblicial quotes to turn against our deafness that is their own abuses to lie about our feelings of being deaf that is not always hate ourselves for being deaf . Because they make us hate ourselves because of those abuses we are dealing with every single day from day one until today. As they said we are not happy for being ourselves because AUDISM said so to cover up their own abuses toward Deaf children for many many years.

Everything that I am seeing, thats their AUDIST ATTITUDE to destroy our Deaf children and Deaf community as they tried so hard for many years that haven't given it up yet.. Wake up, d/Deafies and Latened Deaf how could you dare to let Oralism people treat you like that all your life?


Thats the truth! I am not sorry for saying it very straightforwardly.

Have a good day!
Sweetmind

 

[Sweetmind]

Shel90

I grew up in the late 70s and throughout the 80s (graduated high school in 1990) so it wasn't too long ago. Nobody hit me or anything but I was constantly criticized by my speech teachers especially the one I had in middle school. She wud make me repeat the letter "X "for every session and constantly told me that I need to work harder on making it sound perfect. Mind u, that was in isolation so when she would tell me to use sentences with words that had X in them, I wud screw up and she would slam her fist on the table and tell me that I am not trying hard enough. It got to the point where I cried and I was 13 or 14 years old..not a 3 or 4 year old. That was how bad it was. That and other situations such as the contant bullying of kids calling me "deaf and dumb" plus more year after year put a huge emotional toll on me. I tried telling my teachers or my mom about those situations but they would tell me that I am being dramatic or I need to toughen up. To me, that was a form of mental abuse cuz I started blaming myself for not having the perfect speech skills nor not being able to understand everything that is being said in class.

I agree with you. What happened to you at school was really unfair. That is a real AUDIST people attitude about our deafness and orally speaking with our deaf voices that is not the same as hearing people s voices to speak.

Also it s very negative remarks that people tell us that we have to live with this hearing world that is the way it goes. That's full of crapola. We have the rights to enjoy our deafness in this society as well as we want to have a real communication with hearing people while they dont make their effort to learn and understand what American Sign Language is all about so what does it tells you? I find this is no excuse for them to abuse us because we are deaf as is.

Thats why I strongly feels that Deaf children should not cover up ourselves from being deaf or by being deaf for their sakes..

People out there in this society need to open their eyes and show their respect toward us Deaf people as Human Being as well as it goes all kind of minorities that is who are deaf. So be it!

Many deafies and hearing people with audist attitude dont tell you everything because they dont want to face the truth for having their own selfish reasons. Cuz they think hearing people are more superior to Deafies that they think we are nothing and lying about Oral Method issues in our childhood. They dont want the whole truth that has already come out of coffin to be locked up again. so some of them in here to stick up someone s bun that are still abusing in their situation they dont realized it.. It s more of brainwashing by AUDISM people that did it to those Deaf children as usual. So thats why they are so much denial in themselves that I cannot blame them for having those feelings all those years. They just want to have their attention because they mentioned they can hear and speak without any problem with hearing people. I find this is not quite true at all. Sorry I had to say this bluntly.

Thank you
Sweetmind

 

[deafdyke]

You know..................I'll have to look this up for a cite....I think I read it in Exceptional Parent, that abuse of kids with disabilites is VERY common.
It's probaly due to many factors, but you know one major factor might be due to methodology. Jackie and Rick I'm NOT attacking you when I say this, but oral only can be VERY energy consuming b/c it's essentially therapy 24/7....It insists that the parents serve as therapists.
Oh and Jackie, maybe your daughter's reading level is the reason why she's not making straight As. Sure its only a grade level below (not TOO bad) but still.................

 

[jillio]

You know..................I'll have to look this up for a cite....I think I read it in Exceptional Parent, that abuse of kids with disabilites is VERY common.
It's probaly due to many factors, but you know one major factor might be due to methodology. Jackie and Rick I'm NOT attacking you when I say this, but oral only can be VERY energy consuming b/c it's essentially therapy 24/7....It insists that the parents serve as therapists.
Oh and Jackie, maybe your daughter's reading level is the reason why she's not making straight As. Sure its only a grade level below (not TOO bad) but still.................

You are correct in that, dd. It is so0mething that was emphasized in almost all of my grad classes.

 

[deafskeptic]

This thread confirms something my counseler who was late deafened told me many years ago. She said that children with disablities tend to report higher instances of abuse from parents and families.

 

[jillio]

This thread confirms something my counseler who was late deafened told me many years ago. She said that children with disablities tend to report higher instances of abuse from parents and families.

Yep, its a sad fact.

 

[Buffalo]

I am curious as to what year this occured in. Nowadays this kind of thing will not only get a teacher arrested for assult but will also get them fired. I understand the pain and frustration with the old methods but I also believe we have evolved since then and have changed and I don't think this abuse happens anymore. If it does then it's up to the victims to speak out and get those individuals arrested for assult. Teacher or not NOBODY has the right to strike a student for any reason. PERIOD!!

This happened to me in 60's. The teacher with a piece of wood teached 4th grade so I was in her class in late 60's. My state banned corporal punishment in mid 70's when I was almost done with high school in another state.
I looked up on coporal punishment for more information and was shocked that coporal punishment is still legal in some states.
Is your child at risk of smoking? - FamilyEducation.com
Facts About Corporal Punishment
CORPORAL PUNISHMENT OF CHILDREN (SPANKING): introduction and  legality

I seriously doubt that deaf children are free from abuse today. Shel90 and Deafdyke told you their stories that are later on from my time. Today the deaf children's parents don't include them in group conversations. Mine don't eventhough they already know that I will eventually lose my sight. That is why I am planning on moving out of state in order to build my support (notice I didn't said rebuild as I didn't really have that in the first place). I want to go to some place warm where I don't have to worry about tripping over snow or slipping on some ice. I still want to work so I will have to figure this one out by looking at products for the blind.

 

[deafdyke]

but oral only can be VERY energy consuming b/c it's essentially therapy 24/7....It insists that the parents serve as therapists.

and to elaborate on this, while some families do well under the "therapy 24/7 role, many others don't. And yes, I know you know many parents of oral kids whose families thrived, BUT think about it..........the majority of those families are probaly stereotypical suburban high achiever types. Like that kind of family is the type that wants to get wittle Smashlie into a country day school preschool, and makes their kids take SAT enrichment classes, and where its "normal" to be overprogrammed.
Whereas a more not so high achiver family might find the therapy 24/7 route to be a little too stressful. So they get burnt out by the constant demands that serving as a surrogate 24/7 therapist entails.

 

[Sweetmind]

The whole Corruption of our Govt' and Medical Code of ethic!!!!

This is the Whole Corruption of our Government and Medical Code of Ethic's intention to destroy our deafness.

Those audist people do not tell you everything that is just the same concept of our Government and Medical s purpose of having the destruction of Deaf human being. So therefore it s actually that they did damaged our Deaf ears and hands that has been abused badly, too. We deafies were forced and conformed in their own Hearing standard that has a lack of real communication between Deaf and Hearing people.

Now I strongly feels that Government and Medical's Code of Ethics are full of it that still owes us in a big time and payment for our Health insurance that we as Deaf teamwork could sue for it. I am so tired of paying all those health expenses that is very high prices that I couldnt pay Dr s visit fee anymore. It relates to our Deaf ears and my hands that causes more severe problems that leads on other side of effect by MEDICAL professionals for hearing people s sake while they could not give us our RESPECT our rights in our needs that should come first. It s not supposed to be what hearing people want for themselves that shouldnt be done by AUDIST people with a very negative attitude about our Deaf Natural Abilities and Adaptation. That is a real dictatorship 's rules only. I got terminated from the first full time job and lost the second full time jobs because of my hands that is not just from injury at work only however Audist people did slapped my unique hands with the freaking rulers and harm my hands by holding the books to lift it up in the air or bend my hands to be folded that is where the wrist are. Scoffs! Audist people got away with it as well as it s A CHILD ABUSE. For you information, I do not have any health insurance for myself as well as NO ONE cares about older people that tells me everything now. I am not even 53 years old yet if you mind.

The reason is that Hearing people cannot do it while Deaf people can do it.. How interesting that we on the opposite side. So they think they have the power and control over us and our deafness.. Scoffs!

American Disability Act doesnt really applying for many Deafies rights at all from day one since they established new law in around 1980's in many ways. Now Where are our Deaf rights in Deaf Education? Deaf Languages? Professional Interpreters not interpreter certificate? More Deaf teachers for Deaf Educator of the Deaf like Shel90 with a very positive outlook that has everything to provide for each deaf child altogether? NOW it s time to have the wake up calls for you Deafies and Latened Deaf. Thats all up to you! I m done my hardwork effort to keep myself going as long as I live. Mind you, Liza that is what I am waitng for saying this to you in the right time/place. Thanks!

Deaf will be always deaf. Thats our extremely Spirits of being deaf in our own true expression that needs to be heard. Deaf people can do anything except hear.

**Ears do not think but Brain does.**

Now u need to reread this Harlen Lane's quote on the bottom of this comment that tells you what it means.

Have a good day!

Sweetmind

"Pure, Simple, Natural, Honest Total Communication; loving bonds between Deaf and Hearing people in this diverse world." Quote,Fact of Sweetmind's Beliefs in Natural Method: ASL. It tells you that there is "two way street" for Hearing and d/Deaf people.

 

[Cloggy]

...............
Now u need to reread this Harlen Lane's quote on the bottom of this comment that tells you what it means.
"Tell the mothers I said, "Don't try to change your child; you are the adult, you bear the burden of change" - Harlan Lane

Interestingly, Harlan Lane is neither a mother, nor the parent of a deaf child, and knowing a lot about D/deaf history, he has no clue about deaf children that can hear with CI.

"Tell the parents I said, "You are the adult, you bear the burden to give your child all the possibilities life can offer" - Cloggy

 

[pek1]

Good God! You basically accuse me of calling deafies liars when nothing can be further from the truth. Then you twist the conversation so that you don't appear to be wrong about anything. I NEVER minimized anything and have stated many times that the physical abuse from the past is tragic. And AGAIN.. I said the PHYSICAL abuse which is what the poster was mentioning. It's one thing to make a point about the abuse of today. I have no problem with that. But, don't tell me or paint a picutre that I think deafies are lying to me about what they have experienced. If you truly believe I think that way then you have no clue about the kind of person I am.

Despite what the others tell you to calm you down, perhaps you need to reread what you said here: http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/44593-deaf-education-oralism.html#post829617

I, personally, don't go for people who speak out of both corners of their mouth. To read what more shel went through makes me even more determined to go to law school to STOP this from happening to any deaf/hoh person again. Better get your checkbook ready for lawsuits that won't stop.

 

[Cloggy]

Despite what the others tell you to calm you down, perhaps you need to reread what you said here: http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/44593-deaf-education-oralism.html#post829617

I, personally, don't go for people who speak out of both corners of their mouth. To read what more shel went through makes me even more determined to go to law school to STOP this from happening to any deaf/hoh person again. Better get your checkbook ready for lawsuits that won't stop.

Pete, - you funny !

But on a serious note.
There's so much talk from you about you going to lawschool.... have you actually applied...?? (and even more important - been accepted.??)
Whn you decide to apply, don't show your posts on AllDeaf as reference.....

 

[jillio]

Interestingly, Harlan Lane is neither a mother, nor the parent of a deaf child, and knowing a lot about D/deaf history, he has no clue about deaf children that can hear with CI.

"Tell the parents I said, "You are the adult, you bear the burden to give your child all the possibilities life can offer" - Cloggy

Oh, cloggy, you are very incorrect regarding your assumptions of Harlan Lane.
Of course, you would attempt to discredit his expertise.