Deaf Culture..

[deafdyke]

Answer to the OP is simple. No.

Care to elaborate?
I think the theory that Deaf Culture is dying is based on the assumption that only oral failures or only severe/profounders will learn ASL.
First of all, while many kids can reach hoh listening levels with CI, overall the effectiveness of the CI varies. Exactly like how one kid with severe-profound loss can get a lot of benifit out of HA, but another can't.
Second of all, I've noticed more and more parents of hoh kids being open to sending them to Deaf School or program.
Will it be like in the golden ages of res schools? No, but that's the thing about culture...it changes and evolves!

 

[Hohtopics]

Absolutely. And the irony is, the oralists insure that it will always exist.:P

Exactly what is it that you're trying to accomplish? That you have such a strenous need to consistently make posts of such nature like the one above? Me thinks that although you like to give off the impression that you're this supposed secured person hiding behind all these credentials and psychobabble brouhahas, you're actually showing your fear. As indicated in your 42,000+ posts. IMHO.

 

[shel90]

Exactly what is it that you're trying to accomplish? That you have such a strenous need to consistently make posts of such nature like the one above? Me thinks that although you like to give off the impression that you're this supposed secured person hiding behind all these credentials and psychobabble brouhahas, you're actually showing your fear. As indicated in your 42,000+ posts. IMHO.

No..just an intolerance for audism views.

 

[marcyp06]

There are many kids AND adults in my community who have CI's. Two boys in the elemenarty class have ushers and CI's. When asked if they are hearing or deaf they both say deaf. One can hear adn speak well, but he still considers himself deaf and ASL his primary language. The other still has little hearing even with both CI's, and he is the most Deaf kid you will meet.
I was hanging out with a new friend last summer, signing away in the car, and all the sudden she slipped on her CI and turned the radio on. I was surprised to see her do that and asked her if she liked having it. She sadi yes it was a wonderful addition to her life, she really enjoys music, and would implant her kids if they wanted it when they were older. I asked if it made her feel not part of the Deaf world and she looked at me like I was crazy and said "No, thats just silly! I can hear music when I have this thing attached to my head. when i take it off, im still deaf! And my head thinks Deaf no matter what is attached to it"

 

[deafdyke]

When asked if they are hearing or deaf they both say deaf. One can hear adn speak well, but he still considers himself deaf and ASL his primary language. The other still has little hearing even with both CI's, and he is the most Deaf kid you will meet.

Heck there are still a lot of CI folks who are involved in the Deaf World....Even Train Go Sorry (one of my favorite books) prophasayed gloom and doom about CIs almost twenty years ago. They are compatible with Deaf Culture. The only thing they will do is make Deaf Culture more hoh friendly. Which is good! The CI simply means that there are going to be a lot less voice off or oral failure kids.....

 

[Frisky Feline]

 

[jillio]

Heck there are still a lot of CI folks who are involved in the Deaf World....Even Train Go Sorry (one of my favorite books) prophasayed gloom and doom about CIs almost twenty years ago. They are compatible with Deaf Culture. The only thing they will do is make Deaf Culture more hoh friendly. Which is good! The CI simply means that there are going to be a lot less voice off or oral failure kids.....

I'm not at all certain about the bolded. There are few completely voice off kids with HA. There will still be the rate of problems in the oral environment with implanted kids given the fact that they still require the accommodations that kids who use an HA require. We aren't seeing a huge change in function. We are just seeing more parents deciding on an oral environment for their deaf kids.

 

[deafdyke]

I'm not at all certain about the bolded. There are few completely voice off kids with HA. There will still be the rate of problems in the oral environment with implanted kids given the fact that they still require the accommodations that kids who use an HA require. We aren't seeing a huge change in function. We are just seeing more parents deciding on an oral environment for their deaf kids.

That's very true. They still require basicly ALL the hoh style accomondations.
But then again, I do think that with the closure of two oral preschools (a growth industry just ten years ago!) AND the fact that CIs are really expensive(and an insurance boondoogle) parents might be opting for both ASL and speech in the future.
I think that some people here may not understand that a part of the reason why oral only is popular, isn't b/c of THOSE types of oralists, but b/c oral support at deaf programs may not be the best in the world. If deaf schools and programs could improve spoken language therapy, the number of oral only kids would prolly be as small as cued speech users.

 

[jillio]

That's very true. They still require basicly ALL the hoh style accomondations.
But then again, I do think that with the closure of two oral preschools (a growth industry just ten years ago!) AND the fact that CIs are really expensive(and an insurance boondoogle) parents might be opting for both ASL and speech in the future.
I think that some people here may not understand that a part of the reason why oral only is popular, isn't b/c of THOSE types of oralists, but b/c oral support at deaf programs may not be the best in the world. If deaf schools and programs could improve spoken language therapy, the number of oral only kids would prolly be as small as cued speech users.

Agreed. I am just hoping that even though we still have the parents using the CI as an excuse to place a child in an oral only environment, the time that they are left there to accumulate delays will grow shorter and shorter so that the deaf schools at least have a chance of remediating.

 

[deafskeptic]

Agreed. I am just hoping that even though we still have the parents using the CI as an excuse to place a child in an oral only environment, the time that they are left there to accumulate delays will grow shorter and shorter so that the deaf schools at least have a chance of remediating.

well, I have mixed feelings about this. :/ On one hand, delays are easier to fix but they should've been prevented in the first place.

 

[deafdyke]

Agreed. I am just hoping that even though we still have the parents using the CI as an excuse to place a child in an oral only environment, the time that they are left there to accumulate delays will grow shorter and shorter so that the deaf schools at least have a chance of remediating.

So you agree with me that if Deaf Schools improved their spoken language offerings, a lot of parents would opt for placement there? I think too that a lot of parents are unaware that Deaf Schools can be really decent. It's like a lot of them seem to think that they're like something out of the 60's or that they're only for voice off kids.
There are some amazing schools out there......I bet you anything if a lot of the parents who are protesting that deaf schools don't concentrate enough on voice, saw what happens at Kansas School, Florida School, TLC, NY State School for the Deaf, and many many others they'd be all " OMG I want my kids to come here!"

 

[deafdyke]

well, I have mixed feelings about this. :/ On one hand, delays are easier to fix but they should've been prevented in the first place.

Agreed. In other words, the majority have hoh style delays instead of the severe deaf style delays that were seen in the old days. Which is good....I mean they don't desperately need to dorm it at Clarke/CID etc.....and did you know that the reason that the oral dorm system surived so long wasn't b/c a lot of parents of oral kids were sending their little kids off to the dorms, but rather a lot of kids would hit the fourth grade glass ceiling, and then be sent off to live in the dorms.

 

[jillio]

well, I have mixed feelings about this. :/ On one hand, delays are easier to fix but they should've been prevented in the first place.

Oh, I agree with you completely. They SHOULD have been prevented. But unfortunately, we have to deal with what is, and not what should be.

 

[jillio]

So you agree with me that if Deaf Schools improved their spoken language offerings, a lot of parents would opt for placement there? I think too that a lot of parents are unaware that Deaf Schools can be really decent. It's like a lot of them seem to think that they're like something out of the 60's or that they're only for voice off kids.
There are some amazing schools out there......I bet you anything if a lot of the parents who are protesting that deaf schools don't concentrate enough on voice, saw what happens at Kansas School, Florida School, TLC, NY State School for the Deaf, and many many others they'd be all " OMG I want my kids to come here!"

No, I don't really agree with that. If the Deaf schools all became Oral schools, then I think we would see more hearing parents opting for placement. As long as the Deaf schools continue to offer ASL, hearing parents will avoid them until their child forces them, through lack of progress academically and linguisitically, to let go of their Oral dreams.

 

[deafdyke]

No, I don't really agree with that. If the Deaf schools all became Oral schools, then I think we would see more hearing parents opting for placement. As long as the Deaf schools continue to offer ASL, hearing parents will avoid them until their child forces them, through lack of progress academically and linguisitically, to let go of their Oral dreams.

jillo, really? Then how come enrollment in the actual school part of Clarke isn't booming like it was in the old days? Did you know that enrollment at the oral schools is ALSO dwindling? It's not just signing Deaf schools whose enrollments are dwindling.
I think that while there are a lot of "THOSE" types of parents (meaning stereotypical AG BAD ie MY child will NOT learn ASL and needs to be auditory verbaled) a lot more parents are simply unaware that there are Deaf schools that are Hoh friendly....or even that there are even Deaf Schools! I really think that a lot of parents of dhh kids are more like the parent of that hoh girl who ended up going to FSDB.

 

[jillio]

jillo, really? Then how come enrollment in the actual school part of Clarke isn't booming like it was in the old days? Did you know that enrollment at the oral schools is ALSO dwindling? It's not just signing Deaf schools whose enrollments are dwindling.
I think that while there are a lot of "THOSE" types of parents (meaning stereotypical AG BAD ie MY child will NOT learn ASL and needs to be auditory verbaled) a lot more parents are simply unaware that there are Deaf schools that are Hoh friendly....or even that there are even Deaf Schools! I really think that a lot of parents of dhh kids are more like the parent of that hoh girl who ended up going to FSDB.

Yeah, I know that the Oral schools are facing reduced registration as well. But I see that happening for a different reason than the reduction at the signing schools.

While it is true that parents do not know what they need to about deaf schools in general, it is also true that so many parents still see ASL as a crutch and something that makes their child's deafness more obvious. Although few parents will admit it, it is always evident when they are coming at things from that perspective.

For most hearing parents, mainstream is the first choice of placement because they feel it normalizes deafness more than any other placement. The second choice would be an Oral deaf school, because while it is still a "special school" and therefore undesirable, at least it normalizes deafness to the degree that kids are forced to use the language of the hearing population. The last choice is the signing deaf school, and most hearing parents do not send a child there by choice, but simply because they have reached the point where they have no choice if they want their child to have any academic progress at all.

 

[BecLak]

Wirelessly posted

jillo, really? Then how come enrollment in the actual school part of Clarke isn't booming like it was in the old days? Did you know that enrollment at the oral schools is ALSO dwindling? It's not just signing Deaf schools whose enrollments are dwindling.
I think that while there are a lot of "THOSE" types of parents (meaning stereotypical AG BAD ie MY child will NOT learn ASL and needs to be auditory verbaled) a lot more parents are simply unaware that there are Deaf schools that are Hoh friendly....or even that there are even Deaf Schools! I really think that a lot of parents of dhh kids are more like the parent of that hoh girl who ended up going to FSDB.

Yeah, I know that the Oral schools are facing reduced registration as well. But I see that happening for a different reason than the reduction at the signing schools.

While it is true that parents do not know what they need to about deaf schools in general, it is also true that so many parents still see ASL as a crutch and something that makes their child's deafness more obvious. Although few parents will admit it, it is always evident when they are coming at things from that perspective.

For most hearing parents, mainstream is the first choice of placement because they feel it normalizes deafness more than any other placement. The second choice would be an Oral deaf school, because while it is still a "special school" and therefore undesirable, at least it normalizes deafness to the degree that kids are forced to use the language of the hearing population. The last choice is the signing deaf school, and most hearing parents do not send a child there by choice, but simply because they have reached the point where they have no choice if they want their child to have any academic progress at all.

I agree with this 100%

 

[Speedy Hawk]

Yeah, I know that the Oral schools are facing reduced registration as well. But I see that happening for a different reason than the reduction at the signing schools.

While it is true that parents do not know what they need to about deaf schools in general, it is also true that so many parents still see ASL as a crutch and something that makes their child's deafness more obvious. Although few parents will admit it, it is always evident when they are coming at things from that perspective.

For most hearing parents, mainstream is the first choice of placement because they feel it normalizes deafness more than any other placement. The second choice would be an Oral deaf school, because while it is still a "special school" and therefore undesirable, at least it normalizes deafness to the degree that kids are forced to use the language of the hearing population. The last choice is the signing deaf school, and most hearing parents do not send a child there by choice, but simply because they have reached the point where they have no choice if they want their child to have any academic progress at all.

I agree with that. Also some parents will keep their child in mainstream schools or oral schools even child is very behind with school work and refuses to send their child to signing deaf schools.

 

[deafdyke]

Yeah, I know that the Oral schools are facing reduced registration as well. But I see that happening for a different reason than the reduction at the signing schools.

While it is true that parents do not know what they need to about deaf schools in general, it is also true that so many parents still see ASL as a crutch and something that makes their child's deafness more obvious. Although few parents will admit it, it is always evident when they are coming at things from that perspective.

For most hearing parents, mainstream is the first choice of placement because they feel it normalizes deafness more than any other placement. The second choice would be an Oral deaf school, because while it is still a "special school" and therefore undesirable, at least it normalizes deafness to the degree that kids are forced to use the language of the hearing population. The last choice is the signing deaf school, and most hearing parents do not send a child there by choice, but simply because they have reached the point where they have no choice if they want their child to have any academic progress at all.

I totally agree with you. There is a "OH NOES MY CHILD has "speshal needs" attitude when it comes to placement or communication methodolgy. Which irrirates the crap out of me. A LOT, and I mean a lot of decisions about communication methodology is based on " oh ASL/Sign is special needs. Speech and auditory training is the only way. We can chose that and pretend everything is just ducky. Oh it's SO wonderful that our kid doesn't have to use ASL! Our child must be "normal" BUT, on the other hand, how much of that attitude is parental caused vs. "what the experts tell them?" We have had quite a few parental posters who say that they basicly did what the experts told them...meaning a solotaire mainstream experiance. Then they discovered Deaf Ed and ASL and are amazed at how good the system is.
I really do think that a lot of parents are basicly like my parents were.....they're really frustrated with the lack of services in the mainstream, but they think that Deaf School/programs aren't hoh friendly or they think any number of things. You're also forgetting that it hasn't been the norm to attend deaf school/program for decades now(Your son's and mine generation was prolly the last to know about the Deaf school option through a lot of people who had gone there. Most kids in the 80's and 90's were mainstreamed. A lot of parents may not even be aware or be misinformed about the Deaf School option. Remember today's parents were being raised AFTER the deaf school option was even that common. Unless they're informed, they're not aware of the Deaf school option....or they think it's for voice off profound kids. You know, I was talking to someone who is involved in education (and thinks that the trend towards inclusion at all costs is fucking dumbassed....and jillo, believe it or not, there's a lot of debate about inclusion and mainstreaming. Many of my friends who are teachers agree that inclusion SOUNDS good, but very rarely works out well in practice.) and she wasn't even really aware that I could have gone to deaf school, or that deaf school was an option.
Matter of fact, she says that most sped kids in her school are either behavorial or austistic.
I think we're both right. I think if we could get rid of the attitude by the experts and teachers that Deaf Schools are just for voice off kids or just for profound kids, we'd get a LOT of parents sending their kids there. I do see a LOT of frustration by parents and a lot of "Oh the deaf school/programs are just for oral failures/mainstream failures/ or whatever mentality.

 

[Mountain Man]

So here's an interesting question, has the internet had a bigger (possibly negative) impact on Deaf culture than cochlear implants? Some reasons I ask:

I heard a story from one Deaf fellow who said that in years past, he would attend NAD conventions and hundreds of Deaf people would spend hours in the common areas of the hotel chatting and socializing, literally all night in some cases. He said now days this doesn't happen as much because people either have their heads stuck in their phones where they contact their friends and then meet up somewhere so that there aren't the big gatherings like there used to be.

The historic Deaf club in my town recently closed its doors. I have a friend who attended just before it closed, and he said hardly anybody was there and that it broke his heart because in years past, it used to be THE place for Deaf people to meet and hang out. Now days most Deaf "clubs" are on Facebook or MySpace, and it doesn't seem there are the casual mass meet-ups anymore. I've also been a part of some Deaf events recently (one at the local Deaf school) that were very lightly attended by members of the community.​

Has the internet fragmented Deaf communities in a more fundamental way than cochlear implants ever could?