Cop "Not Sorry"

[kokonut]

The officer had no other information about the two people at the house other than two had backpacks and had gained entry to a house from a 911 call. Crowley wasn't treating this as an intruder. Crowley doesn't know who lived at that house. Upon arriving and some talking all he needed was a confirmation of Gates identity. All Gates had to do was produce an ID and that'd be the end of it. But noooooooooo, Gates acting like an ass saying how he was connected to somebody big and that Crowley doesn't know who he's "messin with" proves once again Gates' own stupidity. He's the one who acted stupidly, not Crowley. So did Obama acted stupidily for opening his mouth for the entire nation to watch and hear by attacking Crowley and the police force. Bad day for Obama. Bad move by Gates.

 

[darkdog]

The problem here is people like Liebling don't understand why cops do things the way they do, so because they don't understand it, they think it's wrong. In reality, many decades of experience among thousands of police departments determines the way they do things. That experience trumps the inability of a non-cop to understand.

Perhaps people should interpret their inability to understand police procedures not as evidence that the procedures are wrong, but as evidence that they lack knowledge about the realities of police work.

 

[Jiro]

The problem here is people like Liebling don't understand why cops do things the way they do, so because they don't understand it, they think it's wrong. In reality, many decades of experience among thousands of police departments determines the way they do things. That experience trumps the inability of a non-cop to understand.

Perhaps people should interpret their inability to understand police procedures not as evidence that the procedures are wrong, but as evidence that they lack knowledge about the realities of police work.

and plus - some people just simply do not respond well to people of authority because of traumatic experience in their childhood life. They automatically view authority as abuse.

 

[Royale]

The problem here is people like Liebling don't understand why cops do things the way they do, so because they don't understand it, they think it's wrong. In reality, many decades of experience among thousands of police departments determines the way they do things. That experience trumps the inability of a non-cop to understand.

Perhaps people should interpret their inability to understand police procedures not as evidence that the procedures are wrong, but as evidence that they lack knowledge about the realities of police work.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Officers do not have to have permission, if they are investigating a probable cause.

http://www.flexyourrights.org/frequently_asked_questions

The Police Officer can´t walk into owner´s home without owner´s or tenant´s permission/a warrant or the consent of someone who resides there. THAT violates the Fourth Amendment.

He was simply asking Gate to prove his residence.

Yes, Gates did showed his IDs to Police Officer and want Police Officer´s name and badge number but Police Officer choose to ignore his demand.

It was not like the cop came and saw Gates at his home and questioned him...

Police Officer has no reason to treat Gates as an intruder/suspect when he told Police Officer who he is and this is his home.

The cop was responding to a call. :roll: He was doing his job by investigating it.

When Gates gave Crowley his IDs to prove that he lived there, Crowley should have apologized and then give Gates one of his business cards with his name, badge number and wish him good day, then leave.

Gates just simply over reacted

.

Agreed.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Really? so please enlighten me - what are most US police officers' reputation in here?

and you are basing that on what? newspapers that reported about 10 bad cops per year?

Why should I enlighten you when you know there´re many articles/videos about Police Officers´ behavior?

but doesn't that contradict to your previous post #41? You said "Unfortunlately yes, it would be my first reaction is to blame the police officer for the whole situation because it was stupid to arrest a man in his home after show his ID to the officer."

I have already listened to both sides from all major news articles hence I came to a conclusion - my post #9.

Yes I stand correction what I said that Police Officer behaved stupidly in the beginning because Gates did is not violate the law.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

let's see... a full uniform plus a police car plus a badge. yep that's a cop for sure. But then.... what if it's a fake cop? Let's see... risk getting charged with resisting arrest and assaulting the cop or not?

that's what you get for living in state that wants to abolish 2nd Amendment.

Jiro´s post

asking for badge number is irrelevant if Gates' being arrested. Like I said - Crowley's primary concern was to control the situation because Gates was increasingly hostile. If Gates would just calm down and be civilized, Crowley would offer his badge number as requested. Accusing officer of being racist isn't exactly a great way to talk to officer responding to burglary call.

A Henry Louis Gates Jr. Explainer roundup. - By Brian Palmer - Slate Magazine

 

[Jiro]

Why should I enlighten you when you know there´re many articles/videos about Police Officers´ behavior?

No I don't. Please enlighten me.

Yes I stand correction what I said that Police Officer behaved stupidly in the beginning because Gates did is not violate the law.

ok.

 

[Jiro]

http://www.flexyourrights.org/frequently_asked_questions

The Police Officer can´t walk into owner´s home without owner´s or tenant´s permission/a warrant or the consent of someone who resides there. THAT violates the Fourth Amendment.

please read post #66, 67. The officer had probable cause and with that, it is not a violation of Fourth Amendment nor it is illegal as dictated by U.S. Supreme Court.

Yes, Gates did showed his IDs to Police Officer and want Police Officer´s name and badge number but Police Officer choose to ignore his demand.

Police Officer has no reason to treat Gates as an intruder/suspect when he told Police Officer who he is and this is his home.

When Gates gave Crowley his IDs to prove that he lived there, Crowley should have apologized and then give Gates one of his business cards with his name, badge number and wish him good day, then leave.

Agreed.

Please read post #69, 80, 97

Please stop repeating yourself and read these posts first. If your answer is still same, do not bother repeating yourself.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Looks like it's time for a game of "Put Yourself in Their Shoes".

Now, suppose you're a police officer driving around Cambridge, Massachusetts. You get a call about a break-in in progress. You say to your partner "Nah, it's a waste of time."

Dereliction of duty- you're fired!

And that is why you are not a cop. But suppose you have a good partner who says, "You have to respond or else you'll get fired" and you say "Oh, right. Thank you". You drive to the house. Now remember, the information you have is that there are intruders inside the house. You don't know if they're armed or dangerous. The owners may be in trouble inside. You walk up, see a man inside, say to your partner "Meh, he's probably the owner. Don't want to waste his time" and start to walk away.

Dereliction of duty- you're fired!

And that is why you are not a cop. But suppose your partner says "We can't assume he's the owner until we verify. There may be people in trouble in there. We don't know the situation yet," so you say "Oh, right. Thank you." You walk up to the door and ask the man to come speak to you because you're investigating a report of a break-in. He flies into a rage and starts accusing you of racism. You say to your partner, "He's probably the owner. He looks pretty mad. Why else would he say that? We should be respectful and leave."

Dereliction of duty- you're fired!

And that is why you are not a cop. But suppose your partner says, "Well of course an intruder's going to claim to live there. You have to actually verify that he's the owner and nobody's in trouble," so you say "Oh, right. Thank you." You ask him if anybody else is inside and he yells that it's none of your business while accusing you of being a racist cop. He walks away and you say to your partner "Well, I can't go in there. I don't have a search warrant."

Dereliction of duty- you're fired!

And that is why you are not a cop. But suppose your partner says, "The Supreme Court has said you don't need a search warrant if you're investigating an intrusion," so you say "Oh, right. Thank you." You walk in and, he asks for your name and you give it to him (see the police report: Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report - July 23, 2009) but he keeps yelling over you. You tell him you need to see his ID and he finally shows you his Harvard ID. You say to your partner, "OK, he lives here. I'm going to call in my findings and leave"...

Good work, Officer Liebling.

You try to call in but you can't hear because the guy is yelling so loud, so you head out towards the porch. The guy follows you out. So now you're outside the house with this guy yelling and ranting at you. Neighbors are gathered around and you say to your partner "Oh no, what do I do?" He says, "Well, you could give him a warning and then arrest him for disorderly conduct if he keeps it up." You say "Oh, but that violates his first amendment free speech rights." Your partner says, "Actually it's not. You're not arresting him for what he's saying, but for his behavior. Disorderly conduct is not protected by the Constitution." You say, "You may be right, but I'm just going to let it be"...

OK, that's fine.

But still remember, you are not a cop. If you had years of experience under your belt, you might find it more prudent to arrest him.

I don´t know why you misinterpreted my posts.

I learn by yesterday thru Reba´s link and then Jiro´s link of this morning that the link of police report, Barbaro, Jiro and you posted is false. Sorry to tell you that the police officers fabricated the police report.

 

[Jiro]

I don´t know why you misinterpreted my posts.

I learn by yesterday thru Reba´s link and then Jiro´s link of this morning that the link of police report, Barbaro, Jiro and you posted is false. Sorry to tell you that the police officers fabricated the police report.

please kindly point out what part on police report was fabricated.

 

[C.C.Sinned]

...........

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Crowley's police report - link

You should take both side of their story, not just police report.

Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. speaks out on racial profiling after his arrest by Cambridge police.

Transcript of 911 Call - link

for link. It open my eyes that the Police Officer fabricated the police report.

Both the 911 tape and the dispatch tape do not support the Crowley’s claims in police report.

At first I was skepical when Reba posted the link over 911 call yesterday and then you of this morning. Few hours later I found out the truth that the Police Officer fabricated on police reports!

 

[C.C.Sinned]

but blogs a web-tabloids are facts?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

please kindly point out what part on police report was fabricated.

Interesting!!! Nobody answered my question over Police Officer´s report after read your link over 911 caller this morning.

911 caller in Gates arrest never referred to 'black suspects'

CNN) -- The woman who made the 911 call that led to the arrest of Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. never referred to black suspects when she called authorities for what she thought was a potential break-in.

Harvard University professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested after a break-in was reported to police.

1 of 2 Police in Cambridge, Massachusetts, released the 911 phone call Monday. In the call, Lucia Whalen reports seeing "two larger men, one looked kind of Hispanic, but I'm not really sure, and the other one entered, and I didn't see what he looked like at all."

"I just saw it from a distance, and this older woman was worried, thinking somebody's breaking in someone's house and they've been barging in," Whalen says. "She interrupted me, and that's when I noticed. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have noticed it at all, to be honest with you. So I was just calling because she was a concerned neighbor, I guess." Listen to the entire 911 call »

Attorney Wendy Murphy, who represents Whalen, also categorically rejected part of the police report that said Whalen talked with Sgt. James Crowley, the arresting officer, at the scene.

"Let me be clear: She never had a conversation with Sgt. Crowley at the scene," Murphy told CNN by phone. "And she never said to any police officer or to anybody 'two black men.' She never used the word 'black.' Period."

She added, "I'm not sure what the police explanation will be. Frankly, I don't care. Her only goal is to make it clear she never described them as black. She never saw their race. ... All she reported was behavior, not skin color."

Black in America »

Calls to the Cambridge Police Department about the issue have not been returned. Police Commissioner Robert Haas told reporters at a news conference Monday that the 911 tape and police transmission from that day "speak for themselves, and I would ask that you form your own opinion." He added that police always ask themselves: "If I had to do it over again, what would I have done differently?"

"This matter is not resolved," Haas said. "We have a long way to go. We recognize that we are going to take advantage of the situation and we're going to learn from it. We're going to move forward."

In the police report, filed by Crowley, he says he spoke with Whalen outside the home before he approached Gates' house.

"She went on to tell me that she observed what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the porch of Ware Street," the report says. "She told me that her suspicions were aroused when she observed one of the men wedging his shoulder into the door as if he was trying to force entry."

Murphy also disputed accounts of her client as a white woman in the traditional sense. "The fact is, she's olive-skinned and of Portuguese descent. You wouldn't look at her and say, necessarily, 'Oh, there's a white woman.' You might think she was Hispanic," Murphy said.

Murphy's comments add yet another layer of intrigue to the July 16 arrest that has prompted heated discussion across the nation on race relations in America, including President Obama weighing in on the issue.

Obama last week first said police "acted stupidly" in arresting Gates after he presented identification that showed he lived in the home. But by Friday, the president said that he had spoken with Crowley and that he didn't mean to malign the Police Department.

The president acknowledged that his words "helped to contribute to ratcheting" up the debate and controversy surrounding the arrest. "I could have calibrated those words differently, and I told this to Sgt. Crowley," Obama said.

Obama spoke about two hours after police unions in Massachusetts called on him to apologize. Obama has invited Crowley and Gates to the White House this week for beer.

Mayor: Gates' arrest shouldn't have happened
Meanwhile, authorities in Cambridge announced they have created a panel to advise police on racial issues as a result of Gates' arrest.

"I am committed to making sure our city is not defined by that day. Today is the day to move forward," City Manager Robert Healy told reporters at Monday's news conference. Watch "lessons learned" panel formed »

The committee, led by "nationally recognized experts," will not investigate the arrest of Gates -- one of the nation's most prolific scholars on African-American affairs -- nor will it "make any judgments" on the officers involved, Healy said. The committee "will identify lessons to be taken from the circumstances surrounding the incident" and will advise the Police Department on how "those lessons can be applied" to its policies and practices.

"It's time to move forward and look at lessons learned and go from there," Healy said.

He also weighed in on the upcoming meeting in Washington between Gates, Crowley and Obama: "I hope they enjoy their beer at the White House." The meeting will take place on Thursday, said a senior administration official.

Also at the news conference, Cambridge mayor Denise Simmons, who is African-American, said the arrest was a "turning point for the city."

"While this has been a trying time for Cambridge, we are confident that we can ultimately come out stronger and more unified," she said. "We see ourselves as America's classroom."

Speaking to CNN by phone, Murphy said she was trying to clear Whalen's name after she's come under attack by bloggers and in chat rooms, accused of racial profiling when she first called police.


She said Whalen is "devastated" by such characterizations because she is sensitive about such issues because of her own complexion. Whalen worked down the street and was on her lunch break when she called police.

"She just wants to clear her name. She doesn't want to create more controversy," Murphy said. "She falls outside the plain lines of race, and I think she wanted people to know that."

911 caller in Gates arrest never referred to 'black suspects' - CNN.com

It's illegal to fabricate information on a police report.

Crowley wrote on police report that the 911 Caller is white but Lucia is olive-skinned and Portuguese descent, not white.

Why do Crowley mentioned 2 "black" men ... on police report for when Lucia Whalen and 911 Caller never say anything those word "black"?

Why do Crowley mentioned that he met Lucia Whalen and claim that her skin is white which Lucia said that she NEVER met him.

I understand now why many black people feels about racial profiling.

If Crowley lied about the caller, why would you or anyone else believe anything he said about Gates?

 

[Reba]

...Perhaps people should interpret their inability to understand police procedures not as evidence that the procedures are wrong, but as evidence that they lack knowledge about the realities of police work.

:post:

 

[Jiro]

Interesting!!! Nobody answered my question over Police Officer´s report after read your link over 911 caller this morning.
It's illegal to fabricate information on a police report.

Crowley wrote on police report that the 911 Caller is white but Lucia is olive-skinned and Portuguese descent, not white.

Why do Crowley mentioned 2 "black" men ... on police report for when Lucia Whalen and 911 Caller never say anything those word "black"?

Why do Crowley mentioned that he met Lucia Whalen and claim that her skin is white which Lucia said that she NEVER met him.

I understand now why many black people feels about racial profiling.

If Crowley lied about the caller, why would you or anyone else believe anything he said about Gates?
[/FONT][/SIZE]

the police officer writes a report AFTER the arrest. The police officer does not have an immediate access to 911 tape. It is a simple human mistake which is understandable to overlook a small thing such as "2 men" and "2 black men". That is not a fabrication.

So any other fabrication, Liebling? and are you telling me you are now fully supporting Gates?

 

[darkdog]

I don´t know why you misinterpreted my posts.

I learn by yesterday thru Reba´s link and then Jiro´s link of this morning that the link of police report, Barbaro, Jiro and you posted is false. Sorry to tell you that the police officers fabricated the police report.

The only inconsistency I can see is that he wrote in the report that Whalen told him she saw two black men breaking in and she denies saying they were two black men. The most reasonable explanation is that he remembered wrongly after the fact. It's not uncommon to get a few minor details wrong about a situation. But you jumped to the more sinister and less likely conclusion that this is proof he intentionally falsified the report. What would he have to gain from that? If he were really racially profiling and wanted to cover it up, he would claim to not know the race going in. He would lie the other way.

I interpreted your posts just as you wrote them. You think he was wrong to assume Gates was an intruder. However, despite what some guy at Slate says, he did have probable cause to believe Gates was an intruder. My point was that in a high-stakes situation like that, he can't afford to assume otherwise until he confirmed it.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

How can Crowley commit racial profiling when he responded to a call since he was in the area? He followed protocol. As did other officers.

My co-workers and I agreed that Gates is a raciophobic and overreacted but we also agreed that the Police Officer is also overreacted as well.

Gates was arrested for public disorderly

No, Gates was arrested as soon as he stepped out onto porch from his home, not a public place.

Accord the article, the tapes prove that Crowley had identified Gates while they were both still *inside* the house.

outside *AFTER* he was warned to calm down. Gates followed Crowley outside, down the stairs and continued to berate him loudly. He warned him again to calm down. This was two warnings Gates received while outside by which he ignored and continued to rant and berate after Crowley. Liebling, the report is clear.

The police corroboration is clear. Gates was being an asshole and nothing to do with the color of his skin. Playing the race card gets very, very old nowadays though racism does exist. In this case, racism wasn't the issue here. It was Gates' own stupidity and lack of respect.

That original story, as far as we know, came from Crowley's own report.

How do we know that Gates acted out?

If you assume that Crowley made an accurate report but the tape showed that it’s not evidence of yelling. If he doing his duty, he would have left once he identified the homeowner.

Both the 911 tape and the dispatch tape do not support the Crowley’s claims.

To me, it´s not about race but false arrest and fabricated on police reports!

He and Obama should both apologize to Crowley.

Accord to the side of Gates´s story, why should he apologize Crowley when he know he did nothing wrong?

Obama acknowledged his error and invite Crowley and Gates to have a beer with him. What´s your point?

 

[Jiro]

^^ Liebling - I'm not interested in what your coworkers said or agreed with. You've already stated your point and you continued to repeat it. Please re-read my post #109. Again - if you are going to repeat same thing, do not bother and do not waste your time typing it up. We can look back at your previous post.