Confederate Flag

[Foxrac]

When I was in deaf school, I learned North version of Civil War but at hearing school and community college, I learned South version of Civil War.

I trust South version of Civil War over North version.

It is not cool to indoctrinate the children with inaccurate information but there is problem - many histories have a lot of inaccurate or disputed.

 

[Jezie]

First of all, what history are they trying to erase? Second, it's not what it stood for but what it stands for today. Two entirely different things.

Incorrect... for what it stood for through time is still what southerners fly this flag for today.... it is groups that basterdize this flag, or otherwise foul it's meaning into a corrupt goal.... on this the swastika is a good example... before the Nazi part got a hold of it, it had a completely different meaning.

Now, the US is attempting and sadly managing to do the same thing with the confederate flag

 

[seb]

Incorrect... for what it stood for through time is still what southerners fly this flag for today.... it is groups that basterdize this flag, or otherwise foul it's meaning into a corrupt goal.... on this the swastika is a good example... before the Nazi part got a hold of it, it had a completely different meaning.

Now, the US is attempting and sadly managing to do the same thing with the confederate flag

And what exactly did it stand for through time, until these groups basterdized it?

 

[seb]

When I was in deaf school, I learned North version of Civil War but at hearing school and community college, I learned South version of Civil War.

I trust South version of Civil War over North version.

It is not cool to indoctrinate the children with inaccurate information but there is problem - many histories have a lot of inaccurate or disputed.

I went to college and I learned the history of the Civil War and it's causes. What did you learn and what is the South version of the Civil War.

 

[Jezie]

And what exactly did it stand for through time, until these groups basterdized it?

When the battle flag was designed it was dine so with a message, as most flags are. This flag simply states that the 13 colonies wanted to be left out of the union. That is why it has a big X with 13 stars.

In the south, this flag stands for the southern lifestyle as a whole.

The odd thing about symbols is that the meaning to them is fluid, it can mean whatever people apply to it. Thus, with the KKK, other surpremist groups, government, and other individuals deciding that they want the flag to stand for hate and racism, the south losses it's strongest symbol.

Yet, if one wants to truly fly the confederate flag, there is always the true confederate flag. However, not many know this flag, and the meaning behind flying the confederate flag is lost.

By stamping out this flag it is silencing the part of the nation that fights hardest for our nation's freedoms and liberties. But I am a bit bias on that.

 

[seb]

When the battle flag was designed it was dine so with a message, as most flags are. This flag simply states that the 13 colonies wanted to be left out of the union. That is why it has a big X with 13 stars.

In the south, this flag stands for the southern lifestyle as a whole.

The odd thing about symbols is that the meaning to them is fluid, it can mean whatever people apply to it. Thus, with the KKK, other surpremist groups, government, and other individuals deciding that they want the flag to stand for hate and racism, the south losses it's strongest symbol.

Yet, if one wants to truly fly the confederate flag, there is always the true confederate flag. However, not many know this flag, and the meaning behind flying the confederate flag is lost.

By stamping out this flag it is silencing the part of the nation that fights hardest for our nation's freedoms and liberties. But I am a bit bias on that.

Unfortunately, with the various factions who have taken up the rebel flag and made it their own it was and is time for it to go from being flown over various southern state capitals. It's too bad that the southern states didn't bring legal action against these fringe/radical groups years ago and get injunctions against them from using the flag for their various causes. However, it would of been tough to do so when some of these members of these groups held office in some of the states flying the flag.

 

[Jezie]

Unfortunately, with the various factions who have taken up the rebel flag and made it their own it was and is time for it to go from being flown over various southern state capitals. It's too bad that the southern states didn't bring legal action against these fringe/radical groups years ago and get injunctions against them from using the flag for their various causes. However, it would of been tough to do so when some of these members of these groups held office in some of the states flying the flag.

Sons of confederate soldiers has fought long and hard against these groups. The whole freedom of speech thing tends to muck up their efforts. The flag does not belong to any person, so many let it slide... regardless if the flag goes or not, I do not believe it will take from the southern people or mindset. What does harm, is the whole deeducation of our youth. But that is another topic.
This flag should not be over governmental building unless it is a confederate memoral or the like. It is the defacing of private property and those memorials that is beyond wrong.

 

[Reba]

About the design:

". . . The layout (often referred to as the "Southern Cross") is a Saint Andrew's cross, named after the X-shaped cross used to crucify St. Andrew. It also known as a saltire. Some believe the symbol represents freedom and independence from oppression and tyranny. The design can be found in the flag of Jamaica, Scotland and the United Kingdom.

The 13 stars represent the 11 states of the Confederacy as well as Kentucky and Missouri, two slave states that were claimed by the Confederacy but never actually seceded during the Civil War…."

History of the Confederate flags

 

[Foxrac]

I went to college and I learned the history of the Civil War and it's causes. What did you learn and what is the South version of the Civil War.

North version: It is about slavery.

South version: It is about state rights.

One of my history teacher at hearing school was hardcore southerner and he has confederate ancestries told us that North version of Civil War lesson is myth and inaccurate so told me that blacks do joined the confederate army and mentioned that North had slavery, but federal went after southern states and ignore the slavery issue in northern states.

 

[CrazyPaul]

North version: It is about slavery.

South version: It is about state rights.

One of my history teacher at hearing school was hardcore southerner and he has confederate ancestries told us that North version of Civil War lesson is myth and inaccurate so told me that blacks do joined the confederate army and mentioned that North had slavery, but federal went after southern states and ignore the slavery issue in northern states.

SEB's quote;

Of what I've read on the South in the Civil War, the Blacks had basically non combat roles and where used in support roles such as cooks, servants, laborers, etc.

It still sounds like those black slaves were ordered to do their jobs to keep the South soldiers survive, not to fight against the North (I bet they didn't want to do those jobs but would be killed if they refused).

Can't you see it with your own eyes? The South army took advantage of the black slaves who served them. SMH

 

[Tousi]

North version: It is about slavery.

South version: It is about state rights.

One of my history teacher at hearing school was hardcore southerner and he has confederate ancestries told us that North version of Civil War lesson is myth and inaccurate so told me that blacks do joined the confederate army and mentioned that North had slavery, but federal went after southern states and ignore the slavery issue in northern states.

Also, I vaguely recall that some if not many of the slave owners offered freedom after the war in exchange for suiting up and fighting for the southern cause....true?

 

[Jezie]

SEB's quote;

It still sounds like those black slaves were ordered to do their jobs to keep the South soldiers survive, not to fight against the North (I bet they didn't want to do those jobs but would be killed if they refused).

Can't you see it with your own eyes? The South army took advantage of the black slaves who served them. SMH

Please get a history book and read it... there were many fighting blacks ... they have intergrated fighting units decades before the union's army ever allowed it...to include more often than not even the cooks and noncombative personnel took up arms and fought regardless of race... you keep speaking on a subject that you know little about... just sad...

 

[Jezie]

Also, I vaguely recall that some if not many of the slave owners offered freedom after the war in exchange for suiting up and fighting for the southern cause....true?

Many were freed prior to going to war and were given the choice, others were freed on the battle field...

 

[Wieisdoof]

A Confederate flag is a symbol of heritage.

 

[seb]

North version: It is about slavery.

South version: It is about state rights.

One of my history teacher at hearing school was hardcore southerner and he has confederate ancestries told us that North version of Civil War lesson is myth and inaccurate so told me that blacks do joined the confederate army and mentioned that North had slavery, but federal went after southern states and ignore the slavery issue in northern states.

I went to college in the North and I was taught it was more about states rights and unequal representation between Southern states which were more rural and had smaller populations and the North with more people, so the Northern states had a bigger representation in Congress, so they could basically control what was going on and what was brought up for a vote, which pissed off the Southern states.

 

[seb]

Please get a history book and read it... there were many fighting blacks ... they have intergrated fighting units decades before the union's army ever allowed it...to include more often than not even the cooks and noncombative personnel took up arms and fought regardless of race... you keep speaking on a subject that you know little about... just sad...

Sorry, but you need to read more than just a southern history book. Yes, the South had blacks in their army, but most were in non combat roles and many of them deserted and went to the North and by 1863, there were basically no blacks in the Souths army and it remained that way until March of 1865, just before the end of the war, when the South conscripted 300,000 blacks to take up arms for the "cause" but only a few thousand joined before the war ended in April. And this account is from many historians including Shelby Foote a southern historian.

 

[hoichi]

Sorry, but you need to read more than just a southern history book. Yes, the South had blacks in their army, but most were in non combat roles and many of them deserted and went to the North and by 1863, there were basically no blacks in the Souths army and it remained that way until March of 1865, just before the end of the war, when the South conscripted 300,000 blacks to take up arms for the "cause" but only a few thousand joined before the war ended in April. And this account is from many historians including Shelby Foote a southern historian.

Right.
An those same blacks were descendents of those slaves that were chained and shipped on slave ships that flew the stars and stripes.....
No one denies ,more blacks fought for the north, and those same blacks had regements that after the war was used in the conquest and genocide of natives during the indians wars....
Your point is what then?
That blacks fought for the north and when the south was conquered the natives were next?
And this aids your argument how?

 

[Foxrac]

Also, I vaguely recall that some if not many of the slave owners offered freedom after the war in exchange for suiting up and fighting for the southern cause....true?

Many were freed prior to going to war and were given the choice, others were freed on the battle field...

That's correct.

Please get a history book and read it... there were many fighting blacks ... they have intergrated fighting units decades before the union's army ever allowed it...to include more often than not even the cooks and noncombative personnel took up arms and fought regardless of race... you keep speaking on a subject that you know little about... just sad...

Yes, we know that CP is totally clueless about the history and he's anti-southerners.

There is problem - he never went to southern states.

 

[Jezie]

Sorry, but you need to read more than just a southern history book. Yes, the South had blacks in their army, but most were in non combat roles and many of them deserted and went to the North and by 1863, there were basically no blacks in the Souths army and it remained that way until March of 1865, just before the end of the war, when the South conscripted 300,000 blacks to take up arms for the "cause" but only a few thousand joined before the war ended in April. And this account is from many historians including Shelby Foote a southern historian.

I love how people assume what I read and do not... however, you want history, skip white authors who have an agenda, try going to journals of the men that where there. Read their words. Not a politicians, not some free roaming fool, and not a southern lady who is living well after the facts...
The men with thwir boots muddy, freezing their tuckases off; shoulder to shoulder with the men around them regardless of color, watching the other's back... read their words, add it to histories written by the north, south, boarder states, and international historians.... then come back at this statement...

 

[seb]

I love how people assume what I read and do not... however, you want history, skip white authors who have an agenda, try going to journals of the men that where there. Read their words. Not a politicians, not some free roaming fool, and not a southern lady who is living well after the facts...
The men with thwir boots muddy, freezing their tuckases off; shoulder to shoulder with the men around them regardless of color, watching the other's back... read their words, add it to histories written by the north, south, boarder states, and international historians.... then come back at this statement...

Ok, let me put it this way, get your history on the Civil War from actual scholars who study the history and have facts that they can back up. The facts are: yes, there were blacks in the Confederate Army at the beginning of the war, but they were used in the roles of cooks, teamsters, servants, etc. and very, very few actually had a gun in their hands. Also by 1863, there were basically no blacks in the Confederate Army and at the wars end there were about 2,000 blacks after the order was given to conscript 300,000 blacks into the army in March of 1865, and the war ended the next month. Can you give sources of these men with their boots muddy, if so I would love to read what they said.