cochlear implant opinons

jillio said:
I am personally agaist CI in children. While neuropathways for language development are formed by age 5, the pathways usually activated by auditory language will also adapt and become activated by visual language. As long as language exposure is constant, the same pathways will achieve language acquisition in either mode. The key is early and consistent input.

Response:
That sounds nice in theory, but in reality, as studies have shown, it does not work very well.



CI should be a choice of the d/hh individual. When hearing parents implant a child in an attempt to make that child more similar to themselves and the majority culture, the message is communicated to the child that unless they behave as hearing, and communicate as hearing, they are inferior as a person. I do not object to anyone of adult, or even late teen aged, years choosing a CI. I do however, object to major surgery, unless it is of a life saving nature, being chosen for another without their express consent.
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So you would object to parents opting for surgical procedures for thier children for a cleft palate, a club foot, straightening a shortened leg, etc.? All because they are non-life saving and you cannot obtain express consent from a child. Sorry, but as parents we have certain duties and responsibilities towards our children. It is in the performance of those duties and responsibilities that we must make decisions for, and on behalf, of our children. Hopefully, we make reasoned and informed decisions that are in the best interests of our child.
 
jillio said:
Yep: you believe speech is more important because you are hearing. You believe that communication within the family is important--I agree. But as I am the adult and the one who is responsible for addressing my child's needs, I believe that to faciltate communication, I had to make the adjustments. It was far easier for me to learn sign, and make adjustments in my life than it was for my son to learn spoken language, and force a situation on him that he did not understand. Ayoung child who cannot communicate doesn't understand the whys or the hows of the situation. They only know that Mommy doesn't understand what they are trying to get across, and their needs are not being met. The deaf child should not be the one made responsible for correcting that situation. The hearing parent should.
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Interesting that you allow yourself to don the cloak of parental rights and responsibilities to justify your decisions but refuse to extend those same rights and responsibilities to parents who made a ci decision different from yours.

We chose to raise our child orally, to raise her in the family environment into which she was born. We chose to give her the ci, as we believed it would help her and give her opportunities that she might otherwise not have. What we chose not to accept is that there is only one way to raise a child who is deaf. In fact, there is no "one way" to raise any child. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that the basis for our decision may be because we honestly felt that after carefully considering all the options we came to the conclusion that our child could have a more fulfilling life with increased opportunities and choices if she had a ci.
 
Welcome to AllDeaf Rick48,

Excellent statement here. I agree with you.

Hope to read more from you..
 
I'll join Cloggy in welcoming Rick48 to AD!

Jillo, I agree with what Rick48 had to say -- it should be THE parents' decision on how to raise their deaf children and he had made a very good point in his first post asking about surgery for cleft palate, etc.

I was very anti-CI until last spring when our deaf son brought up the suggestion that his deaf son be implanted -- AD helped me to accept CIs. I am accepting the hearing parents' decisions -- it is THEIR children so therefore it is THEIR decision whether their children be implanted or not, raise them orally or not, etc. etc. It is NO one else's decision to dictate to these parents what they can or cannot do with their OWN children.

What changed my mind? I realize my grandson would STILL be DEAF no matter what -- the implant won't make him hearing! BUT it will (and IS) be another tool to help him grow up in the hearing world. The more tools he has to work with, the more successful he will be in the world -- that is all what my son and his wife want for him. AND my deaf husband and I (deaf also) stand behind their decision for our grandson, their son.

(okay, I'm stepping off the soapbox) And a good day, all! :cool:
 
greema said:
I'll join Cloggy in welcoming Rick48 to AD!


What changed my mind? I realize my grandson would STILL be DEAF no matter what -- the implant won't make him hearing! BUT it will (and IS) be another tool to help him grow up in the hearing world. The more tools he has to work with, the more successful he will be in the world -- that is all what my son and his wife want for him. AND my deaf husband and I (deaf also) stand behind their decision for our grandson, their son.

(okay, I'm stepping off the soapbox) And a good day, all! :cool:
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I agree!

I must say that I am hearing. I've also been asked by some .."What would you do if..." What would you do if you had a child that was deaf?

Since that is a hypothetical question for me, I had to answer it hypothetically and honestly. I don't know what I would do unless and until I was in the situation, but I think I can say this....

Regardless of whether or not I would choose to implant my child, I would still consider my child deaf. After all, they ARE deaf no matter what. Take the CI off, and guess what happens? The child can't hear well. When it comes to communication, I would see to it that my child had the best of both worlds. I would raise them orally since myself and all of the family is hearing, but I would also encourage my child to learn sign. I am perceptive enough to realize there may be situations in which the child might not be able to rely on the CI and may need to sign to communicate.

Parents need to do what is best for their child, and I don't believe either is right or wrong. What I find upsetting is people think it's a horrible thing to put their youngster through surgery. How is it horrible when the parents are doing what they feel is best, and who are WE to judge them? It's not our call to make, but theirs.
 
i believe its up to parents on their desicion on THEIR own CHILD. and i support both ways to implant or not to. as i am aware that the earlier the child is implanted the better they will be. when the child becomes older then the implant won't work much as those kids who are implanted for years.
 
The biggest misconception is that the parents of CI children "made' the chocie for him/her....... I totally disagree with this statement......... In fact, it's these parents that are giving their children a CHOICE..... How......Well, my son was implanted at a very early age............If he decided when he was an adult (even a teenageer for that matter) that he no longer wanted to wear the device, then it's truly his choice. If I raised him to be ASL only, and then wanted the implant later on, the implant would not be as successful . Then the choice has been made for him.. Heather Artinian was on NPR radio a few days back and was asked if she regretted not getting implanted earlier...........Her response????????? Yes.......And that's a kid who was implanted at 9 years old......ulnlike her cousins, who were implanted much earlier.
 
greema said:
I'll join Cloggy in welcoming Rick48 to AD!

Jillo, I agree with what Rick48 had to say -- it should be THE parents' decision on how to raise their deaf children and he had made a very good point in his first post asking about surgery for cleft palate, etc.

I was very anti-CI until last spring when our deaf son brought up the suggestion that his deaf son be implanted -- AD helped me to accept CIs. I am accepting the hearing parents' decisions -- it is THEIR children so therefore it is THEIR decision whether their children be implanted or not, raise them orally or not, etc. etc. It is NO one else's decision to dictate to these parents what they can or cannot do with their OWN children.

What changed my mind? I realize my grandson would STILL be DEAF no matter what -- the implant won't make him hearing! BUT it will (and IS) be another tool to help him grow up in the hearing world. The more tools he has to work with, the more successful he will be in the world -- that is all what my son and his wife want for him. AND my deaf husband and I (deaf also) stand behind their decision for our grandson, their son.

(okay, I'm stepping off the soapbox) And a good day, all! :cool:
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*gives u a standing ovation* YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WELL SAID! i agree 100%
 
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doubletrouble said:
The biggest misconception is that the parents of CI children "made' the chocie for him/her....... I totally disagree with this statement......... In fact, it's these parents that are giving their children a CHOICE..... How......Well, my son was implanted at a very early age............If he decided when he was an adult (even a teenageer for that matter) that he no longer wanted to wear the device, then it's truly his choice. If I raised him to be ASL only, and then wanted the implant later on, the implant would not be as successful . Then the choice has been made for him.. Heather Artinian was on NPR radio a few days back and was asked if she regretted not getting implanted earlier...........Her response????????? Yes.......And that's a kid who was implanted at 9 years old......ulnlike her cousins, who were implanted much earlier.
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Lillys Dad, I see you have new pictures of Lilly in your avatar and signature...she is very adorable!
 
:ty: My hair is turning gray just thinking about her teenage years. :fly3: I am definately gonna have my hands full! It would be very easy to do the overprotective cop dad thing and terrorize any boy that come to my house. While I would looove doing thaat, it would only drive my daughter away from me as she gets older. Instead, I have a feeling that I am gonna be in a world of ignorant bliss when it comes to my daughter. "Those"years will be the responsibility of my wife. If not, you will eventually see me on the national news, after I kill the first boy that breaks her heart.:rifle: :rl:
 
Thanks, for the welcome. Sorry for taking so long to acknowledge everyone! I am the parent of two teenage girls and so I no longer have a life of my own!
 
Rick, I can only imagine.......Im having a hard time keeping up with 1 two year old!
 
rick48 said:
Interesting that you allow yourself to don the cloak of parental rights and responsibilities to justify your decisions but refuse to extend those same rights and responsibilities to parents who made a ci decision different from yours.

We chose to raise our child orally, to raise her in the family environment into which she was born. We chose to give her the ci, as we believed it would help her and give her opportunities that she might otherwise not have. What we chose not to accept is that there is only one way to raise a child who is deaf. In fact, there is no "one way" to raise any child. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that the basis for our decision may be because we honestly felt that after carefully considering all the options we came to the conclusion that our child could have a more fulfilling life with increased opportunities and choices if she had a ci.
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You are free to make any choice that you desire for your child. At no time did I state, or even imply that you are not free to do so. The thread requested my opinion, and that is exactly what I gave. I hope that your decision results in a very happy and well adjusted adult. I know that my decision did. I also know many Deaf adults that were raised in an oral environment in an attempt to give them skills that would allow them to "live in a hearing world and be able to communicate just like hearing" that suffered needlessly on an emotional level. Should you choose to do some research on the negative effects on identity, educational achievement, social adjustment, and mental health issues that are experienced by the deaf that are not exposed to sign and Deaf culture, I will be happy to refer you to some excellenct resources.

When you "honestly considered" between CI and no CI for your daughter, where did you obtain all of the facts that weighed in your decision? I can only assume that your information came from a host of hearing professionals--audiologists, ENTs, speech therapists, and surgeons. I only recommend that one also consult with those who know what it is to live life as a deaf person--The Deaf Adult who has survived childhood, and allow that to figure into your decision. If that has not been taken into consideration, then you are still approaching your decision with only half of the information available to you.

My decisions don't need to be justified. I raised a profoundly deaf child with the advise and support of many wonderful people from the Deaf community. I sent himt to a school for the Deaf as a day student--relocating so that he would not have to go as a residential student. My son is currently a sophomore at a major hearing university and maintains a 3.5 gpa. He has a social life that is so active that I don't get to spend nearly as much time with him as I would like. That, my friend is the only justification I need for my decisions. I am completley confident that I made the right decisions. Should he decide that he wants a CI, then I will support him in that decision as well. But to date, he is secure enough in his identity, and comfortable enough with his Deafness that he sees no reason to explore that option. And yes, it is his decision to make--he is the one who is deaf.

In conclusion, A CI has the potential to influence identity formation, and also has the potential to lead well meaning parents into faulty assessments of their child's deafness. Cleft palate, club foot, or one leg shorter than the other do not carry the implications that deafness does. And if you categorize deafness on the same level as a club foot, it tells me quite a lot re: your ideas of what it is to be deaf. You put it in the same category as a physical disability. Which is the very basis of our disagreement. You see deafness as a disability, I see it as a cultural and linguistic differnce.
 
jillio said:
You see deafness as a disability, I see it as a cultural and linguistic differnce.
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Ok, so since deafness is not a disablity why is it covered under IDEA (which is about disablities) If deafness is not a disablity why are deaf able to collect SSKI based on their deafness. If deafness is not a disablity why is it covered under ADA? The truth is deafness is a pain in the rear end and causes no end of problems in the employment world. It also causes isolation. The CI gives those of us who have hearing problems the chance to finally experience the sounds more like a hearing person, it's very cool.

I'd agree with Rick when he says that waiting is taking away the choice. You see if the choice is to get the most out of the CI and develope spoken language waiting until the child can decide is not a choice, you have in effect denied the choice.

If my child was profoundly deaf and an option was available to help them develope spoken language then I as a parent would have to take advantage of that. why? because studies show early language developement is easy, toddlers in bi lingal home switch easily from one language to the other, if I would wait to let a toddler decide if he 'wanted' the CI then I've failed to give that toddler the chance to communicate with his extended family.

Even with my hearing loss and having to struggle at times to understand my extended family I would never deny that opertunity to my child. Without the CI the child would be locked into a world of missing what was going on 'even' with the parents best intentions of interpeting for him. Interpeters and family who sign will not always be available at events, family or friends.

And that's basically what I got when talking to Cindy who does talk and did spend her childhood in the dorms only seeing her family a couple times a year. Being away from her family sucked, she actually speaks very well. Not everyone has the opertunity to pick up and move half way across the state so the CI does give children a chance to be with their FAMILY and gives parents a chance to raise their own child.

And just a fyi, I do have a disabled child in the residential school for the deaf here in my state, the decision made when she was around 12. She has a mild hearing loss but her primary disablity effects her ability to speak and communicate. We kept her home until she finished 6th grade and decided that immersion was probably the best way to help her. She likes going to school and living in the dorms. I hate the fact that she lives there. But her communication skills have improved. So i'm not against deaf educaion, but I am for real choice for the child. and delaying a CI is not a 'real' choice. (imo)
 
rick48 said:
Thanks, for the welcome. Sorry for taking so long to acknowledge everyone! I am the parent of two teenage girls and so I no longer have a life of my own!
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I lived through 3. LOL PMS raging hormones etc....I did survive so will you. :)
 
Ok, so since deafness is not a disablity why is it covered under IDEA (which is about disablities) If deafness is not a disablity why are deaf able to collect SSKI based on their deafness. If deafness is not a disablity why is it covered under ADA? The truth is deafness is a pain in the rear end and causes no end of problems in the employment world. It also causes isolation. The CI gives those of us who have hearing problems the chance to finally experience the sounds more like a hearing person, it's very cool.
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:gpost: I would have to agree with Jag here.
 
jag said:
Ok, so since deafness is not a disablity why is it covered under IDEA (which is about disablities) If deafness is not a disablity why are deaf able to collect SSKI based on their deafness. If deafness is not a disablity why is it covered under ADA? The truth is deafness is a pain in the rear end and causes no end of problems in the employment world. It also causes isolation. The CI gives those of us who have hearing problems the chance to finally experience the sounds more like a hearing person, it's very cool.

I'd agree with Rick when he says that waiting is taking away the choice. You see if the choice is to get the most out of the CI and develope spoken language waiting until the child can decide is not a choice, you have in effect denied the choice.

If my child was profoundly deaf and an option was available to help them develope spoken language then I as a parent would have to take advantage of that. why? because studies show early language developement is easy, toddlers in bi lingal home switch easily from one language to the other, if I would wait to let a toddler decide if he 'wanted' the CI then I've failed to give that toddler the chance to communicate with his extended family.

Even with my hearing loss and having to struggle at times to understand my extended family I would never deny that opertunity to my child. Without the CI the child would be locked into a world of missing what was going on 'even' with the parents best intentions of interpeting for him. Interpeters and family who sign will not always be available at events, family or friends.

And that's basically what I got when talking to Cindy who does talk and did spend her childhood in the dorms only seeing her family a couple times a year. Being away from her family sucked, she actually speaks very well. Not everyone has the opertunity to pick up and move half way across the state so the CI does give children a chance to be with their FAMILY and gives parents a chance to raise their own child.

And just a fyi, I do have a disabled child in the residential school for the deaf here in my state, the decision made when she was around 12. She has a mild hearing loss but her primary disablity effects her ability to speak and communicate. We kept her home until she finished 6th grade and decided that immersion was probably the best way to help her. She likes going to school and living in the dorms. I hate the fact that she lives there. But her communication skills have improved. So i'm not against deaf educaion, but I am for real choice for the child. and delaying a CI is not a 'real' choice. (imo)
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Yep, studies do show that early language development is easier for the child, but this is where you are confused. The studies don't say verbal language, they just say language. Sign is as much a language as spoken English. And the studies also show that even the most successful oral deaf rely on visual for comprehension of receptive skills. Perhaps your daughter likes living in the dorms and going to school because she has found a place that sees her as a whole individual, and not as a disabled individual. She is permitted to function to the best of her ability without judgement as being inferior.

Deafness is not a disability. Hearing loss is a disability. The communication difficulties that arise as a result cause the disability. Not perceiving sound in and of itself is not a disability unless communication is restricted by well meaning hearing people who refuse to accept that any way other than hearing is viable.

IDEA refers to educational issues. SSI is an option for those who are having difficulty functioning in mainstream society. I don't consider that depression is a disability in most form either, but there are those who collect SSI on that basis.

And no CI is absolutely a real choice, and a choice that is made every day by many Deaf. It is as viable as the choice to implant.
 
jillio said:
Should you choose to do some research on the negative effects on identity, educational achievement, social adjustment, and mental health issues that are experienced by the deaf that are not exposed to sign and Deaf culture, I will be happy to refer you to some excellenct resources."

Response:

I thank you for the offer but as my daughter, also a college sophomore, is secure in her identity as a person, who among many other things is deaf and has a ci; I have no need for what is certainly excellent resources.

"When you "honestly considered" between CI and no CI for your daughter, where did you obtain all of the facts that weighed in your decision? I can only assume that your information came from a host of hearing professionals--audiologists, ENTs, speech therapists, and surgeons. I only recommend that one also consult with those who know what it is to live life as a deaf person--The Deaf Adult who has survived childhood, and allow that to figure into your decision. If that has not been taken into consideration, then you are still approaching your decision with only half of the information available to you."

Response:

Do I need to remind you of the problem when one "assumes"? We spent time talking to many d/Deaf adults as well as families of deaf children with and without cis. I truly hope that you too also spoke to deaf people with cis and the parents of ci children so that you did not approach "your decision with only half of the information available to you."

"I am completley confident that I made the right decisions."

Response:

So too am I.



"In conclusion, A CI has the potential to influence identity formation, and also has the potential to lead well meaning parents into faulty assessments of their child's deafness."

Response:

I agree. Likewise, not giving a ci to a child also has the same potential to influence identity formation.


"And if you categorize deafness on the same level as a club foot, it tells me quite a lot re: your ideas of what it is to be deaf. You put it in the same category as a physical disability. Which is the very basis of our disagreement. You see deafness as a disability, I see it as a cultural and linguistic differnce.
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Response:

Nice try, but that is not the context in which those examples were cited. As you recall, you said you were opposed to any major surgeries for children unless they were life saving surgeries. Just wanted to know if you were opposed to those surgeries or is it just surgery for cochlear implants that you oppose. I think the basis for our disagreement is more complex then that for my focus was, and always has been, what is in the best interests for my daughter. I leave the semantical arguments for others.
 
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