Climate Skeptics See 'Smoking Gun' in Researchers' Leaked E-Mails

Aw...

I thought economy is your favourite subject?

You're no fun today.
 
But I thought the reason why the government listed CO2 as a pollutant was for tax reasons?

You see... I offered one side of the issue, you offered the other side. Shall we wait to see what route corporates will take?
 
souggy said:
But I thought the reason why the government listed CO2 as a pollutant was for tax reasons?

You see... I offered one side of the issue, you offered the other side. Shall we wait to see what route corporates will take?
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Corporates have no choice in this matter. If they'll get taxed because of some govt fantasy thinking CO2 is a pollutant they'll get taxed. And the that cost will pass onto the consumers. It always has.
 
And pray tell, if taxing CO2 emission won't get corporates to tighten up on their environmental issues... What you propose the government should do to wean ourselves off of fossil fuel?

Sponsor geothermal development? Subsidize solar panels so every household can return electricity back into the grid and profit from it?

Look like Iceland and Germany beat us to it. But no, you wouldn't agree because those would be "socialist" ideas... well, taxing things have always been the American way to get people to change their lifestyle.
 
souggy said:
And pray tell, if taxing CO2 emission won't get corporates to tighten up on their environmental issues... What you propose the government should do to wean ourselves off of fossil fuel?

Sponsor geothermal development? Subsidize solar panels so every household can return electricity back into the grid and profit from it?

Look like Iceland and Germany beat us to it. But no, you wouldn't agree because those would be "socialist" ideas... well, taxing things have always been the American way to get people to change their lifestyle.
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It's not going to happen overnight. It'll be a long process. I'd rather see that we use our own oil and gas rather than depend 70% of our oil on imports, mostly from countries that are unstable and unfriendly toward the U.S. and that they do not follow proper environmental protocols. The U.S. have environmental protocols in place when it comes to drilling and transporting oil and gas. It's better to use our own and at the same time help create jobs and improve the economy and at the same time allow us the opportunity to work on cleaner form of energy down the road. This is a long term prospect that could take 2 to 3 decades for the transition to complete. Why send $500 billion dollars a year on foreign oil when the money could be used here in North America and recycled back into the economy? It's a no brainer. By the time we've successfully transitioned we would have sent 5 to 15 trillion dollars overseas for oil when that money could've easily help pay down the debt, create jobs, strive for the transition to cleaner energy and renewable energy. This CO2 thing is pretty much a stand alone strawman. Anyway you look at it we will be dependent on oil for some time. Might as well use our own oil and folllow proper environmental protocols to help protect the environment. It's really a simple idea.
 
Problem is that people are taking the attitude of "not in my backyard!" when it come to oil and mining because they are seeing the beauty of the land disappearing before them. :)
 
souggy said:
And pray tell, if taxing CO2 emission won't get corporates to tighten up on their environmental issues... What you propose the government should do to wean ourselves off of fossil fuel?

Sponsor geothermal development? Subsidize solar panels so every household can return electricity back into the grid and profit from it?

Look like Iceland and Germany beat us to it. But no, you wouldn't agree because those would be "socialist" ideas... well, taxing things have always been the American way to get people to change their lifestyle.
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Each area or region of the U.S. (or North America in this case) are able to benefit from solar energy. Same thing for wind. You have wave generated electricity as well. Geothermal development is limited in specific areas that would benefit from generating electricity. Iceland is known for it's volcanism so, it's not a good idea to use Iceland as an example since the population is 360,000 people on island that's almost 10 smaller than the United States and almost 10 smaller in size with an area of almost 400,000 square miles.

I'm for clean energy development but we have to be realistic on the time scale and the time it takes to make a full transition. Having control of *all* of our energy resources allow us to transition easier and without hurting our economy by passing that pain onto consumers.
 
souggy said:
Problem is that people are taking the attitude of "not in my backyard!" when it come to oil and mining because they are seeing the beauty of the land disappearing before them. :)
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Not really. Most of these oil and gas drillings are in done remote places or in low populated areas.
 
kokonut said:
Each area or region of the U.S. (or North America in this case) are able to benefit from solar energy. Same thing for wind. You have wave generated electricity as well. Geothermal development is limited in specific areas that would benefit from generating electricity. Iceland is known for it's volcanism so, it's not a good idea to use Iceland as an example since the population is 360,000 people on island that's almost 10 smaller than the United States and almost 10 smaller in size with an area of almost 400,000 square miles.

I'm for clean energy development but we have to be realistic on the time scale and the time it takes to make a full transition. Having control of *all* of our energy resources allow us to transition easier and without hurting our economy by passing that pain onto consumers.
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Either way, you will agree with me that taxing things to death until the industry is dead is the American way of changing lifestyles, right... instead of subsidizing alternative competitions?
 
souggy said:
Either way, you will agree with me that taxing things to death until the industry is dead is the American way of changing lifestyles, right... instead of subsidizing alternative competitions?
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You're missing the picture. Tax the industry to death, it get passed onto the consumers...poor, the well off, and the rich...in the attempt to force a lifestyle change. Technology has to be robust enough to support such a change where it creates a demand for such a product. Again, the problem boils down to the time it takes to fully transition into a cleaner source of renewable energy. It won't take 10 years. Not even 20 but more than that. It's the revamping of the whole infrastructure and adopting to a different kind of lifestyle. Average length of time on car ownership is about 9 to 10 years. While we're at that, use our own oil and gas for a change and re-circulate the money back into our own economy and at the same time help pay down the debts. Why use other countries' oil when we have enough of our own? Why limit other countries access to oil they need while the U.S. gobbles a good portion of it up? Why spend $500 billion a year on oil where most of the money go to unfriendly, unstable and/or environmentally uncompliant countries? It's really simple solution here. Use only our resources, which include oil and gas, and wean away from foreign imported oil.
 
I like the idea of taxing CO2 directly from our mouths! That way, those that talk a lot will be taxed for it. Those of us that listen will gain relief.
 
saywhatkid said:
I like the idea of taxing CO2 directly from our mouths! That way, those that talk a lot will be taxed for it. Those of us that listen will gain relief.
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Problem is... they will learn ASL, and we don't have the option of ignoring those by turning off our CIs/hearing aids.
 
souggy said:
Problem is... they will learn ASL, and we don't have the option of ignoring those by turning off our CIs/hearing aids.
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Do what deaf couples around the globe do: look away! :giggle:
 
Climategate: The fix is in.

RealClearPolitics - ClimateGate: The Fix is In

Good read. Think of this as a whistle blower in action on a much bigger and brazen crime such as defrauding the govt of money using fake data to get more research money. Things like that including trying to fool the public. Tsk...

Yeah, I'm sure there were plenty of "consensus" in this collaborative, inside deal efforts. Consider this as their own "man-caused" disaster blown wide open here all the dirty laundry for people to see.

Quite a sight....and we're still digging.
 
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