Childs behavior

s getting involved in a Hoh/Deaf peer play group that has children and adults who speak, sign or both - so that they are able to benefit from BOTH languages in an "informal, fun, natural way!!

It's a fantastic NATURAL "learning, without realizing they're learning" learning environment as well as a support network for the parents - and a great "fun time" for the child.
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Exactly!!! Great point!!!! Learning does not always have to take place in a formal classroom/therapy sitution. Kids can learn a LOT by just every day interaction.
Too much therap/formal learning time for a kid with a disabilty (ANY disabilty) really burns them out. It's exactly how there are overschuduled kids who are burnt out.
 
Oh and ryancher that is AWESOME that you want Tyler to be bilingal in ASL and oral skills!
 
ryancher said:
Just want to start out by saying hi :wave:

I'm kind of in the same situation. I have a 3 year old son, with a moderate/severe bilateral hearing loss. He wears hearing aids. He is also horribly delayed in his speech & language. He's got much more cognitive language but little expressive. Meltdowns were awful!!!

About 6 months ago, we started to step up our signing. We signed, signed, and signed to him. Even though our dream is for him to be bilingual (ASL & Oral English) we have moved away a bit from the oral route and started to concentrate more on ASL. We now have a Deaf Teacher from the local Deaf school come to our home bi-weekly to work with us & Tyler. We also have a ASL instructor come to our home once a week to teach us ASL. Not to mention we immerse ourselves in signs everyday - Signing Time, books, deaf friends, etc...

I will admit since starting signs, Tyler has completely changed. He's not as frustrated and he's able to communicate with us. He understands lots of signs and he's able to sign quite a few too. We're just beginning and have a long road ahead of us... but by adding ASL and not pushing so much for oral... we have actually begun to hear more intonation and trying to speak.

If you want to chat... feel free to drop me a pm or email. ;)
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Such great input -- I'm so happy for you and Tyler!
 
deafdyke said:
Oh and ryancher that is AWESOME that you want Tyler to be bilingal in ASL and oral skills!
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Why do you say "oral skills"? Why can't he be bilingual in English (spoken and written) and ASL? "Oral skills", to me, means the ability to ask where the bathroom is and lipread well enough to pick out a few common phrases. Bilingual would mean the ability to converse in and understand both languages freely. I feel like you are trying to limit the success that is possible, which I totally disagree with...
 
faire_jour said:
Why do you say "oral skills"? Why can't he be bilingual in English (spoken and written) and ASL? "Oral skills", to me, means the ability to ask where the bathroom is and lipread well enough to pick out a few common phrases. Bilingual would mean the ability to converse in and understand both languages freely. I feel like you are trying to limit the success that is possible, which I totally disagree with...
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A lot of deaf people say "oral" as in oral skills, etc. Bilingual wasn't a word commonly used when we were younger.
 
faire_jour said:
Why do you say "oral skills"? Why can't he be bilingual in English (spoken and written) and ASL? "Oral skills", to me, means the ability to ask where the bathroom is and lipread well enough to pick out a few common phrases. Bilingual would mean the ability to converse in and understand both languages freely. I feel like you are trying to limit the success that is possible, which I totally disagree with...
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oral skills refer to the one's ability to speak the spoken language.

Bilingual is the fluency of two languages whether one can speak them or not. Many deaf people without oral skills are bilingual.
 
shel90 said:
oral skills refer to the one's ability to speak the spoken language.

Bilingual is the fluency of two languages whether one can speak them or not. Many deaf people without oral skills are bilingual.
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Would you consider someone who was fluent in written English, spoken English, and ASL to be trilingual (do you see written and spoken English as self-contained languages in themselves)?

I read somewhere that had we standardized the English language at the time Beowulf was written, ~ 1100 AD, English written and spoken systems would be as disconnected as Chinese spoken and written language is today. Although as it is, spoken and written English are pretty distant from one another, given that written language was developed long after the spoken system, and most hearing people learn the written form years after learning the spoken form.
 
GrendelQ said:
Would you consider someone who was fluent in written English, spoken English, and ASL to be trilingual (do you see written and spoken English as self-contained languages in themselves)?

I read somewhere that had we standardized the English language at the time Beowulf was written, ~ 1100 AD, English written and spoken systems would be as disconnected as Chinese spoken and written language is today. Although as it is, spoken and written English are pretty distant from one another, given that written language was developed long after the spoken system, and most hearing people learn the written form years after learning the spoken form.
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English is one language...ASL is one language.

Someone who is fluent in both is bilingual. That's all there it is. If someone is fluent in Chinese, Eglish and ASL,t hen they are trilingual.

spoken and written are the modes, not the language itself.
 
shel90 said:
English is one language...ASL is one language.

Someone who is fluent in both is bilingual. That's all there it is. If someone is fluent in Chinese, Eglish and ASL,t hen they are trilingual.

spoken and written are the modes, not the language itself.
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I totally agree.

I am in the middle of learning Swedish.

This will make me trilingual. English, ASL, and Swedish.

I would not consider my use of spoken English and written English as 2 separate languages.
 
shel90 said:
English is one language...ASL is one language.

Someone who is fluent in both is bilingual. That's all there it is. If someone is fluent in Chinese, Eglish and ASL,t hen they are trilingual.

spoken and written are the modes, not the language itself.
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OK, I'm surprised. I would have thought you did consider that written English was a language in itself, not just one mode of a whole language with two modes.
 
GrendelQ said:
OK, I'm surprised. I would have thought you did consider that written English was a language in itself, not just one mode of a whole language with two modes.
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English is the language. I am lost to what you are trying to say. If a deaf person can communicate via the written form of English despite not having any oral skills, that deaf person is fluent in English.
 
shel90 said:
English is the language. I am lost to what you are trying to say. If a deaf person can communicate via the written form of English despite not having any oral skills, that deaf person is fluent in English.
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Ok, if someone can speak English but not read or write, are they fluent in the language?
 
shel90 said:
English is the language. I am lost to what you are trying to say. If a deaf person can communicate via the written form of English despite not having any oral skills, that deaf person is fluent in English.
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The question is that if somene has fluency in one mode, but not the other, is that true bilingualism.
 
Bilingual means being fluent in 2 languages. We are saying we are fluent in English and ASL. That's 2 languages. Speaking English and writing English are not 2 languages.
 
shel90 said:
oral skills refer to the one's ability to speak the spoken language.

Bilingual is the fluency of two languages whether one can speak them or not. Many deaf people without oral skills are bilingual.
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:D You said it, Shel.
 
faire_jour said:
Ok, if someone can speak English but not read or write, are they fluent in the language?
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Yes. There are many people all over the world who can speak a language fluently but cannot read and write. So, either spoken - or written gives fluency - or both together regardless.
 
There's an argument in linguistic circles that standard written English and spoken English can each be considered a distinct language in itself, not requiring a conjoined spoken or written mode to fulfill all requirements of being a language. These arguments for spoken and written English to be considered distinct languages are based on the significant difference in grammars, in both morphology and syntax -- something that sets English apart from other Western languages.

I thought that argument was the basis for considering someone bilingual if he or she has fluency in stand-alone written English + ASL (or, conversely, fluency in spoken English + ASL).

Based on that, it seems like if you consider written English + ASL = bilingual, adding spoken English to the mix would make you trilingual.
 
Spoken and written English are both forms of English. Either one or both can give you fluency in English.

Sign language + spoken English = bilingual
Sign language + written English = bilingual
Sign language + English (spoken and written combined) = bilingual
 
Why not just make it easier and say "multilingual" if you really want to emphasize on having more than one language. It's become a semantics discussion where there are gray areas, and linguists often argue what defines fluency.

Here's a case example:
Someone knows the Fujian dialect, can read and write in Chinese, which is interchangeable between all regions in China.
By default language acquisition, s/he can also read and write in Cantonese (HK) but cannot speak the language.
By default language acquisition, s/he can also read and write in Mandarin but cannot speak the language (but generally, modernized mainlanders can).
By default language acquisition, s/he can understand general kanji in Japanese but cannot speak or fully read the language.

So, what does this make this person?

It's just semantics. No different than saying that there are different accents in english.

If I were communicating with another individual who spoke in the King's English, I personally wouldn't consider them bilingual. But to each their own.
 
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