California Bill AB 2027

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faire_jour said:
You are not reading the whole of her or my post.

Shel said that she knows professional who advocate for spoken language, just like I did.
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So you are admitting that it's a strong consensus among deaf professonials, and Shel90 is a part of it?
 
flip said:
So you are admitting that it's a strong consensus among deaf professonials, and Shel90 is a part of it?
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I would agree that most deaf teachers of the deaf advocate using ASL. But again, not all.
 
Who are these "deaf professionals" then? Educators, administrators, audiologists, what? I just need some clarification here.
 
faire_jour said:
:wtf:

I advocate for ASL for all children with a hearing loss. HOW DO THEY DISAGREE WITH ME????
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Shel90 wrote:"I have met so many teachers who are deaf and they all agreed with me."

We have seen you disagree with Shel90.

If you agree with the statement from Shel90, that it's a strong consensus among deaf teachers, among them, Shel90, you also admit that you disagree with most deaf teachers.
 
kokonut said:
Who are these "deaf professionals" then? Educators, administrators, audiologists, what? I just need some clarification here.
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Mainly those into education and linquistics, but in some posts, only teachers, as you can read up yourself.
 
flip said:
Shel90 wrote:"I have met so many teachers who are deaf and they all agreed with me."

We have seen you disagree with Shel90.

If you agree with the statement from Shel90, that it's a strong consensus among deaf teachers, among them, Shel90, you also admit that you disagree with most deaf teachers.
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People don't have to agree on everything to agree on somethings. I believe that all children with a hearing loss should have ASL, but I also believe in parental choice, which means it is not my decision to make for any child but my own

I agree with Shel on somethings and disagree on others.
 
faire_jour said:
You are not reading the whole of her or my post.

Shel said that she knows professional who advocate for spoken language, just like I did.
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Those professionals who advocated oral-only deaf ed caused so much misery for my friends and I when we were growing up. Now, all of us from that preschool class use ASL as our primary language and wish we werent placed in classrooms where we were constantly left out, lost, and fighting to keep our heads above water. Same thing with social settings...we all paid a heavy price for these professionals' opinions.

The only people I have met who have advocated for oral-only deaf ed are hearing.
 
shel90 said:
Those professionals who advocated oral-only deaf ed caused so much misery for my friends and I when we were growing up. Now, all of us from that preschool class use ASL as our primary language and wish we werent placed in classrooms where we were constantly left out, lost, and fighting to keep our heads above water. Same thing with social settings...we all paid a heavy price for these professionals' opinions.

The only people I have met who have advocated for oral-only deaf ed are hearing.
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This is not the case in my experience.

We have a deaf oral teacher at our school. Also, like I mentioned at JTC. Also the new AG Bell president is deaf, and the outgoing president is as well. They both have bilateral CI's.
 
faire_jour said:
This is not the case in my experience.

We have a deaf oral teacher at our school. Also, like I mentioned at JTC. Also the new AG Bell president is deaf, and the outgoing president is as well. They both have bilateral CI's.
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Have they ever seen what happens to deaf children who fall through the cracks from oral-only deaf ed or mainstreaming programs?
 
shel90 said:
Have they ever seen what happens to deaf children who fall through the cracks from oral-only deaf ed or mainstreaming programs?
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You would have to ask them, not me. I was letting you know that there are deaf people that strongly advocate listening and spoken language. It is not just hearing people.
 
"Fall through the cracks"....can you clarify that, Shel90?
 
fall through the cracks.. one of big example is when teachers ignore the deaf child's writing and let them pass anyway. Even mainstreamed colleges do this (I passed for a deaf person, but in reality, I did not pass for a hearing person), but they won't do it for other students.
 
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i can't understand some people. Do people really want professionals and parents to say "NO" to ASL????
 
A said:
i can't understand some people. Do people really want professionals and parents to say "NO" to ASL????
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Some people believe that deaf kids need to learn spoken language from the start because there is a limited window of opportunity to learn to use the auditory pathways in their brains.
 
So basically the answer is no. you know, parents wouldn't say no, if those professionals did not believe ASL would affect them.
 
A said:
i can't understand some people. Do people really want professionals and parents to say "NO" to ASL????
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A, many professionals I've encountered discuss the benefits of full immersion in one language for most efficient development rather than the cons of one vs. the other. But an argument against ASL that that several people have posed to me is some variation of the following: instead of the effort and time involved in sending my child to a school where voices-off prevails for half the day and she's on a van for 4 hours getting there and back, I could be using that time to just be with my child, bathing her in a flow of everyday language that occurs naturally. Because my daughter is likely getting something less than half the English input she would in a different environment, she'll likely experience a slower rate of development during these first few years. I think that's a pretty good argument, and yet, I'm also convinced that splitting her time between the two languages will ultimately provide more benefit in the long run, with two native languages available to her.
 
faire_jour said:
People don't have to agree on everything to agree on somethings. I believe that all children with a hearing loss should have ASL, but I also believe in parental choice, which means it is not my decision to make for any child but my own

I agree with Shel on somethings and disagree on others.
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So you disagree with 95 percent of deaf teachers out there. Is it really that hard to admit it?

"Parental choice" is a term coined by those who don't want to follow the consensus in the deaf community.

And like other posters here have asked you numerous times, what the heck have "parental choice" done to improve the situation for deaf people? It has degraded deaf education for decades.

You keep on pulling in outcasts in an effort to make it look like it's a 50 50 disagreement on.. what? What a load of bollocks.
 
faire_jour said:
Some people believe that deaf kids need to learn spoken language from the start because there is a limited window of opportunity to learn to use the auditory pathways in their brains.
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Do you dare investigate how many of them are deaf compared to hearing?
 
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