Auditory-verbal therapy research claims

[rick48]

Jillio,

You response does not surprise me: devoid of facts and comprised merely of erroneous statements and baseless assumptions. When you can come up with some facts, not unsubstantiated statements that you create to bolster your bogus assumptions, please let me know.


Rick

 

[deafdyke]

Rick, hope you don't feel like we're all plieling on you, but very sadly your daughter is the exception. It's great that she's done that well, but most dhh kids do not get that level of involvement, or the choice whether or not to use Sign. I do wish there were a lot more oral parents like you. ....who decided on oral as a choice, rather then the default.

 

[rick48]

Rick, hope you don't feel like we're all plieling on you, but very sadly your daughter is the exception. It's great that she's done that well, but most dhh kids do not get that level of involvement, or the choice whether or not to use Sign. I do wish there were a lot more oral parents like you. ....who decided on oral as a choice, rather then the default.

DD,

Thanks for asking but don't worry, I'm doing fine. We may disagree on a few things...well most things, but you are always honest and above board.

I think what mattered most is that my wife never viewed our initial decisions as ones set in stone but she constantly re-evaluated and re-assessed them in order to determine what was best for our daughter.
Rick
Rick

 

[Sweetmind]

Kayla1234, don't take it personally.....I think shel is mostly venting... And I mean she's not a Sweetmind (ie extreme anti CI) She's NOT saying that there aren't sucess stories. Just that, just as with hearing aids, results vary enourmously across the board.
I guess too, that she,me and jillo are more targeting our comments towards the parents who are very audist. I've got a lot more to say, but I need to get to bed.......been a long day. deafdyke

Mind you, deafdyke There are too many huge oral militants here as well. You dont know nothing about me. I am not a Deaf militant since I was freaking ex deaf oralist if you mind after all those experiences I HAD for years and years. That is full of hogwash about having oral method rules only that these men are still use that kind of audist attitudes. Guess what I am not the only one who is against CI on these Deaf children who doesnt want it. Those deaf children have no way to stop their parents if you mind after all, the parents knew a deaf child doesnt want it. That's inhuman cruel treatment toward Deaf children. They give us impression that we must deal with a hearing world only that is bullshyte. They did not have any choices to prevent that happens. This is not the honorable awards for anyone to take over Deaf children s physical body that is usually become more double disabled as usual. SO BE IT because they do not have any faiths in Deaf children's natural abilities and adaptations. They are against their Deaf children 's wills.

Why dont you come up to me and face it with me instead of backstabbing on my back as u knew I dont come here since last June. I have counted many knives from you and others. (LOL) Guess what, I dont give a shyte about people 's thinking of me anymore because it doesnt matter anymore since I am not a horrible person like Beast 666. (LOL) Nice try, DeafDyke you think you know it all but NOT. So here I am.

Also, thank you SexyPorkie and few others for speaking it out. That was a nice of you and few others who did it.

I saw it Ricky aka Rick48 and CI pop and Gosnism aka Cloggy and his dishonest ghostwriter friend of Beast 666 so it tells me they are not being honest from a start. They have a huge nasty mind games with you all along as I saw the truth that they are taking advantage of you deaf people all along as i can see it in their own hearing words only after all, deaf oralists with a very negative attitude went all along with those Audism militants who are a huge disrespectful attacks deaf/hearing people with a positive outlook about Deaf children's needs that should come first.

Whats more I can see Cloggy and Rick48 are not being honest since they are actually avoiding to use Sign Language as much as they can since I have watched and read them closely for a long time. I immediately knew what are they up to for a long time. Their negative audist attitude shows me that they want their children must to have HEAR AND SPEAK ONLY from a start that I already saw it thru my Deaf eyes. I am not sorry for being so blunt because it ticks me off the way parents are trying to cover up their buns to pretend they use sign language a lot more than we know. However it s actually that they dont use it much and keep saying my CI child doesnt need or want to use Sign Language that is full of crapola.

Whats more Cloggy doesnt use ASL but other foreign language in his hometown. I truly remember he mentioned that there is no sign language in that area. So thats how I got the fishy feelings all along. NO one can read my deep thinking with the bottom of my heart. I knew the truth all along from a start that you dont know nothing.

Thats the way CI Representative s way of saying to those people out there that is why I said all adveristment shows that they are hearing as a latened deaf person as usual. Read many CI adveristment or website and read it closely and carefully, please. Then you might understand where I am coming from.

CI deaf children is not a hearing person. So be it! All they do is ability to hear many sounds like HA device but it doesnt mean they are able to hear everything with those devices like what hearing people can hear if you mind.

It s about time for someone woke up and see there is not full honest going on by these men from a start.

Thank you!
Sweetmind

 

[Cloggy]

Sweetmind ... back again, and cursing and insulting people within a few paragraphs.
You're a wonderful example for Deaf culture...
I hope Deaf people will ask you to leave, because I think that you are embaressing them... But, I'll leave that to them..

.........................

Whats more Cloggy doesnt use ASL but other foreign language in his hometown. I truly remember he mentioned that there is no sign language in that area. So thats how I got the fishy feelings all along. NO one can read my deep thinking with the bottom of my heart. I knew the truth all along from a start that you dont know nothing.

...............

So SxyPorky did get that stupid lie fed from you....
Thank you for confirming that....

Now, wash your mouth!!

 

[Sweetmind]

Yes, I can answer it. Your refusal to understand that your daughter has reached a level of acievement that most deaf children don't--don't because they are not capable, bur because they are not being provided oppoertunity in the most condusive environment implies that you do not have a realistic understandingof the problems that continue to face the deaf child and the deaf adult inthis country. Your continual focus on CI as the solution demonstrates that you have a very understanding of the issues. This is based on any number of posts in any number of threads, and your insistence that anyone who voices a limitation of CI is anti CI.

Thank you so much Jillo1! He has been doing that all along for almost ten years that has not bit changed in his own audist attiude in here and other deaf forums.. Believe it or Not!

What a relief to have you and Shel90 to be here!

Have a good day!
Sweetmind

 

[Sweetmind]

So SxyPorky did get that stupid lie fed from you....
Thank you for confirming that....

Now, wash your mouth!!

NICE TRY Cloggy Leave SexyPorkie out of it because she has nothing to do with me or I dont speak with her for a long time since she had her heart attacks few times and ended it up in the hopsital. Stop attacking at SexyPorkie or anybody else who doesnt agree with you. yeah you lied about me as being SexyPorkie from a start. LA LA I wouldnt dare to use the term " sexy' for myself. Scoffs!

Anyway back to topic please!

 

[Foxrac]

Sweetmind is back again?

Just behave yourself.

 

[jillio]

Thank you so much Jillo1! He has been doing that all along for almost ten years that has not bit changed in his own audist attiude in here and other deaf forums.. Believe it or Not!

What a relief to have you and Shel90 to be here!

Have a good day!
Sweetmind

Sweetmind! Good to see you back and posting! Shel and I will keep trying, because its the deaf kids that we are concerned about. And the parents of deaf kids that come here looking for information. Stick around for a while!

 

[jillio]

Jillio,

You response does not surprise me: devoid of facts and comprised merely of erroneous statements and baseless assumptions. When you can come up with some facts, not unsubstantiated statements that you create to bolster your bogus assumptions, please let me know.


Rick

My involvement with the Deaf Community, and sensitivity to the plight of the Deaf in the US gives me all the credibility I need. My assumptions are based not only on 20 yearss of involvement, but also extensive research doen in pursuit of my PhD. Obviously, you are far too intellectually lazy to do your own research and require the information to be spoon fed to you. Ih ave neither the time nor the inclination to attempt to educated those who are closed minded and incapable of learning.

 

[rockdrummer]

When a child is exposed to sign as their primary mode of communcation, the auditory centers in the brain process sign langauge as they would process audiory language in a hearing child. Auditory memory is stimulated through recognized morphemes in handshapes just the morphemes in oral language would be recognized through hearing.

You are right in that her conlcusions are based on her own interpretation of the data. However, there have been numerous studies done regarding auditory memory function in the field of cognitive psychology. And these are published studies, not simply research papers, which means that testing methods and data analysis, as well as particpant selection and research methods must comply with IRB standards, and must be reviewed by the board. I'd suggest you check out some of the very credible research done on this subject if you are truly interested.

Jillio, can you provide references or sources of this material and research. Thanks!

 

[jillio]

Sweetmind ... back again, and cursing and insulting people within a few paragraphs.
You're a wonderful example for Deaf culture...
I hope Deaf people will ask you to leave, because I think that you are embaressing them... But, I'll leave that to them..



So SxyPorky did get that stupid lie fed from you....
Thank you for confirming that....

Now, wash your mouth!!

You think--how is it that you can judge what is embarrassing to the Deaf community when y0ou approach it from such a completely hearing perspective? I bet you're a big believer in Manifest Destiny as well.

 

[jillio]

Jillio, can you provide references or sources of this material and research. Thanks!

Absolutely, rockdrummer. Give me over the weekend to sort through all of my books and papers and journals to provide you with that info.

 

[rockdrummer]

Please reread my statement. To make it a bit simpler, if the standards for reading at a 12th grade level is A for a hearing child, when the deaf child is measured using that standard, then her score is equal to or better than that of her hearing peers and is deemed a success. Therefore, when the score is equal to or better than that of her hearing peers, she is considered to be an exception to the results normally found for orally educated deaf children. More often standards are lowered and scores are maniluplated to indicate success. In other words, the oral deaf child is not functioning as well or better than her hearing peers, she is simply being judged by lowered standards. This propogates the idea that the deaf child's abilites are not as high as the hearing child's because we must lower the standards to identify them as successful.

Jillio, In another thread you said the standards should be different for deaf vs hearing kids. Other than lowering the standards how would you make them different? Are you talking about completly revamping the testing procedures for deaf kids?

 

[jillio]

Jillio, In another thread you said the standards should be different for deaf vs hearing kids. Other than lowering the standards how would you make them different? Are you talking about completly revamping the testing procedures for deaf kids?

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that standards should be lowered. That is already happening in many mainstream programs, and that is why kids are being passed through the public school system without the knowledge and the skill base they need to be successful. I am talking about revamping testing procedures would remove all of the biase toward the hearign population--in other words make the testing procedures directed toward the specificity of issues in the deaf individual to remove the bias in the instrument. I have yer to speak with a practicing developmental psychologists that does not agree that this is something that must be done in order to make the necessary improvements in education for deaf students.

 

[deafdyke]

You dont know nothing about me. I am not a Deaf militant since I was freaking ex deaf oralist

Um YES, I do! I know your story very well, since you've been posting a lot in places I have frequented.
I was not stabbing you in the back.......simply using you as a reference point. You ARE VERY against CIs.....that is all I meant! Sheesh!

 

[rick48]

"He has been doing that all along for almost ten years that has not bit changed in his own audist attiude in here and other deaf forums.. Believe it or Not! "


Actually SM, its closer to 20 years that I have advocated for the rights of individuals and parents to make reasoned and well informed choices on behalf of themselves or their children and that the ci remain as one of those choices. Unlike you, I am willing to accept diversity within the deaf community and to accept that parents may take many different paths in raising their children.
Rick

 

[rick48]

Ih ave neither the time nor the inclination to attempt to educated those who are closed minded and incapable of learning.

You missed the point, I am not asking you to educate yourself, just provide the factual basis for your statement about myself and my child.

"Just the facts Ma'am" - Jack Webb

 

[rick48]

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that standards should be lowered. That is already happening in many mainstream programs, and that is why kids are being passed through the public school system without the knowledge and the skill base they need to be successful.

Can you please name those specific mainstream programs and public school systems? I think it would be a wonderful service to any parent who has a deaf child in one of those programs/schools or is considering them for their child.

 

[shel90]

Rick48 and Cloggy,

I have read posts where u say stuff like sign language is not needed. U both need to understand by saying stuff like that here, u will have people attacking u because sign language is very valuable to us and we cherish it. No, it doesnt make them right for attacking u but I can understand why. There are times, that I attack u in my mind but I wont do it here cuz I am not like that.

I know that the general hearing population dont use sign language and that you want your daughters to fit in with the hearing world but what about having the option to interact with the deaf community too? Rick, u said something about oral deaf people...I am sorry I dont think your daughter and her friends are really a part of the deaf community if they dont know sign language. I wasnt a part of the deaf community growing up and I was completely rejected by the deaf community when I tried learning sign language. Yes, it made me angry but I can understand cuz if I dont know ASL, how can I interact with the deaf community? Yesterday, I met a deaf guy at the store and he knew very very little signs and he was asking me questions about CIs...it felt VERY awkward not to be signing to another deaf person. I kept signing to him cuz in my mind, I saw him as a deaf person and my ASL kept taking over. It was very awkward and he kept misunderstanding me. It would be hard for me to be friends with him if he refuses to learn ASL which he even told me when I asked him about learning it. I just think that is sad..cuz even hearing people who have no ties to the deaf community or deaf people do try to learn ASL when they befriend deaf people. My husband was one of them. I admire that...refusal to learn ASL makes me feel turned off.

It made me think if all these children who get CIs and do well with them which is great but are not exposed to sign language, they wont be part of the deaf community even though they are still deaf themselves. Maybe it is not important to you or to the oral deaf people not to be a part of the deaf community but to say that u dont need us is kinda hurtful in a way. Like we are beneath u all.

That's all I have to say.