Animal Cruelty is okay?

sr171soars said:
***ROLLING EYES***
***DOUBLE ROLLING EYES***

Unbelievable how this gets so misconstrued...

Let me take this one by one so everybody understands what I was saying.

1) Dreama's response - I said nothing about implanting wildlife...you did. I see no benefit in implanting any animal for any reason. I was pointing the fact you cannot impute human attributes upon animals. Some animals are more social than others and I will concede your statement about helping each other for some animals but not all. Some animals that can't keep up are left behind as there is no choice. In those circumstances, it is a lonely and sad condition.

...

3) Cheri - You cannot compare the two in terms of cognition. Therefore, do not try to compare humans with animals. In other words, how I feel about animals doesn't translate into what I think about people. Two totally different issues. I could care less whether a person has a CI or not, deaf or not. It is their choice and their business. If they prefer being deaf, more power to them.
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This was all clear to me in your original post, for what it's worth.
 
sr171soars said:
***ROLLING EYES***
***DOUBLE ROLLING EYES***

Unbelievable how this gets so misconstrued...
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Take it easy, Is this how some CIer behave, getting all hostile? Simple explain in another way, don't get too up-tight. :ugh:
 
Cheri said:
Take it easy, Is this how some CIer behave, getting all hostile? Simple explain in another way, don't get too up-tight. :ugh:
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Hostile?!? I didn't name call, use swear words, or belittle anybody. I merely was expressing my disbelief and as far as I know...that is not a hostile action.

In case it was the word misconstrued that got you upset...let me help...

mis·con·strue (mĭs'kən-strōō') Pronunciation Key
tr.v. mis·con·strued, mis·con·stru·ing, mis·con·strues
To mistake the meaning of; misinterpret.

One last thing, to label one's behavior on a CI is really offensive. A CI has nothing to do with the character of a person. It is a tool to hear not a behavior modification device. So, to help you understand this one better let me reverse your statement and say "if this is the way that some deaf behave..." Get my drift...?
 
sr171soars said:
2) Angel - Read what I said about CIs above. When you think about it, they really don't know what they are missing. So, I guess maybe in that context being sad and miserable isn't quite the case. I concede that point.
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What they are REALLY missing here?... Please educate me

And before you do, let me tell you something here training deaf animals requires a major commitment and lots of patience, they don't need to hear in order to learn or to be trained, you can teach a pet as many signs as you want in order to communicate with your pet, if you want to get your pet's attention then thump on the floor with your foot or wave, and it's not so hard to do, all my 6 cats are hearing, they don't hear me as often when I called out for them, so I have to thump on the floor with my foot , wave or get up to get their attention..A friend of mine has a deaf dog, she used a flashlight to get her dog's attention when she takes her dog outside for a walk or potty during the evenings...all they need is extra attention...


Being deaf has nothing to do with how to handle, and respond to various situations and even hearing animals get attacked or killed and deaf animals are just like deaf people and they can use their eyes and nose to sense danger so I don't see what they're really missing out on unless you think being able to hear is soo much more important than being able to hear less....You will be surprise to discover that there are some deaf dogs are out there that know up to about 50-70 signs...

Beside, what is important is that we know our own abilities and our willingness to try our best to make the most of each day... Life is full of surprises aren't it,

All these animals need is our kindness and love nothing more and nothing less....
 
Angel said:
What they are REALLY missing here?... Please educate me

And before you do, let me tell you something here training deaf animals requires a major commitment and lots of patience, they don't need to hear in order to learn or to be trained, you can teach a pet as many signs as you want in order to communicate with your pet, if you want to get your pet's attention then thump on the floor with your foot or wave, and it's not so hard to do, all my 6 cats are hearing, they don't hear me often when I called out for them, so I have to thump on the floor with my foot , wave or get up to get their attention..A friend of mine has a deaf dog, she used a flashlight to get her dog's attention when she takes her dog outside for a walk or potty during the evenings...all they need is extra attention...


Being deaf has nothing to do with how to handle, and respond to various situations even hearing animals get attacked or killed and they're hearing, deaf animals are just like deaf people and they can use their eyes and nose to sense danger so I don't see what they're really missing unless you think being able to hear is soo much more important than being able to hear less....You will be surprise to discover that there are some deaf dogs are out there that know up to about 50-70 signs...beside

What is important is that we know our own abilities and our willingness to try our best to make the most of each day... Life is full of surprises aren't it,

All these animals need is our kindness and love nothing more....
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Sorry, but when fighting for survival...it is the fittest who survive period. The animal that is missing a sense is never ever going to totally make up for the missing sense by compensating with the others. If they don't hear danger coming upon them, they often lose. Same can be said for those who are blind or whatever problem they have. Don't sidetrack the arguments over animals that have all senses and getting attacked and killed. That is to be expected and there is always a situation that may come along and overwhelm them. Such is life...and life is never fair. I speak of those in the wild not those who live with people. Two totally different issues. In the wild, if they don't have all senses, they don't have a full deck for survival purposes. In other words, they have a distinct disadvantage. Some might have the ability to do better than others but all things being equal...the one with all senses does better. Fair or not, that is the way of nature...
 
sr171soars said:
Sorry, but when fighting for survival...it is the fittest who survive period. The animal that is missing a sense is never ever going to totally make up for the missing sense by compensating with the others. If they don't hear danger coming upon them, they often lose. Same can be said for those who are blind or whatever problem they have. Don't sidetrack the arguments over animals that have all senses and getting attacked and killed. That is to be expected and there is always a situation that may come along and overwhelm them. Such is life...and life is never fair. I speak of those in the wild not those who live with people. Two totally different issues. In the wild, if they don't have all senses, they don't have a full deck for survival purposes. In other words, they have a distinct disadvantage. Some might have the ability to do better than others but all things being equal...the one with all senses does better. Fair or not, that is the way of nature...
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I think I remember watching something like that on animal planet about survival of the fittest. I had to laugh at about implanting all deaf wildlife. Wouldnt that be a hoot and that for sure will create a serious controversy not only in the deaf community but in the hearing community too. It is a silly idea. LOL!

If there are people implanting their deaf pets, that is when I would probably never get and have strong opinions about.
 
sr171soars said:
1) Dreama's response - I said nothing about implanting wildlife...you did. I see no benefit in implanting any animal for any reason.
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In which case why keep talking about wildlife for? Implanted animals are usually part of animal research or some rich people's misguided attempts to 'help' their pets. I'm glad you can see the futility of it but you seemed to be saying that animals were sad when not whole so I assumed you were for animals having CI.

You keep giving examples of how animals behave in the wild for your supposed claim that disabled animals do not cope so well. First of all I've heard stories about animals in the wild caring for disabled pack members. I'll hunt them down if you like.

Yes, in some ways Animals are different then us and differant from each other, which is why animal research often gives wrong results.

As one of the more intelligent species of animal, humans are probably more self aware then most animals, and can compare themselves with other humans around them. Wheras other animals would more instinctively made do with whatever bits they had, instead of mourning the bits that were missing like some humans may do if they don't have a positive attitude.

You say you shouldn't atribute human carateristics on animals yet you also say animals are miserable if they don't come fully equiped, which isn't true. They just basicly get on with it and so should we.

We do have shared features with other animals, partiularly other intelligent animals. Having worked with 2 guide dogs and observed my rat colony, and from what I have read elsewhere animals are capable of a whole range of emotions and are not just mindless robots that are just driven by instinct the way some people think they are. They all have differant and distinctive personalities. They can feel pleasure, Jalousy, remorse, embarrasment, grief, fear, etc etc...

For example: When my rat Nancy came at first she had great problems getting along with other rats and didn't behave very well towards them. She did mellow eventually. However only one rat would show forgiveness for her past behavior. The others continued to be very hostile to her. Particularly Bella who was the group Alpha and knew her when she was behaving particularly badly. She definately remembered Nancy although Momma and Candy weren't around at the time but were still hostile with Nancy non the less. (I got Momma and Candy to keep Nancy company) It's as if Bella told them: "Nancy's a trouble maker. You will have to attack her if she tries to join us". (The words are mine but there was definately communicated emotions between Bella and the other rats).

When Nancy died suddenly, the other rats avoided Bella. They also avoided each other as if they were feeling remorse.
 
dreams,
he's talking about survival in the wilderness. animals do prey on each other and if one was deaf, it does has a huge disadvantage, greater chance of becoming another animal's food. B/C it does not hear when a prey is near. i don't see any point in implanting wildlife and i'm sure he thinks that too. Just stating that they do have the disadvantage.


sr171soars, correct if i'm wrong lol.
 
StacieLeigh said:
dreams,
he's talking about survival in the wilderness. animals do prey on each other and if one was deaf, it does has a huge disadvantage, greater chance of becoming another animal's food. B/C it does not hear when a prey is near. i don't see any point in implanting wildlife and i'm sure he thinks that too. Just stating that they do have the disadvantage.


sr171soars, correct if i'm wrong lol.
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The idea of implanting all deaf wildlife still cracks me up. I don't know why but I think it is such a funny concept. :)
 
StacieLeigh said:
dreams,
he's talking about survival in the wilderness. animals do prey on each other and if one was deaf, it does has a huge disadvantage, greater chance of becoming another animal's food. B/C it does not hear when a prey is near. i don't see any point in implanting wildlife and i'm sure he thinks that too. Just stating that they do have the disadvantage.


sr171soars, correct if i'm wrong lol.
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You stated my case correctly. I'm not sure why the issue of implanting an animal in wildlife ever came up. Boggles my mind to say the least.
 
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