Indiana religious objections bill signed for stores owners

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This doesn't have anything to do with gay people. It has to do with a Constitutional right.

Where does it give the right for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals in Indiana's Religious Objection law?

Please show me ... :ty:
 
This doesn't have anything to do with gay people. It has to do with a Constitutional right.

Where does it give the right for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals in Indiana's Religious Objection law?

Please show me ... :ty:

then you do agree that it is illegal for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals?
 
then you do agree that it is illegal for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals?

I actually asked you to show me where it gives the right for private business owners to discriminate against homosexuals in Indiana's Religious Objection law.

Was my question too confusing? Have you actually read the law?
 
I actually asked you to show me where it gives the right for private business owners to discriminate against homosexuals in Indiana's Religious Objection law.

Was my question too confusing?

I see that you're demanding that I answer your question when you conveniently refuse to answer our questions.

huh interesting. so let's try again, shall we? do you agree that it is illegal for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals and to refuse to provide a service to a gay customer based on his sexual orientation?

Have you actually read the law?
yes I did and I didn't even finish it because it's all messed up. what do you think why it's being reworked?
 
I see that you're demanding that I answer your question when you conveniently refuse to answer our questions.

huh interesting. so let's try again, shall we? do you agree that it is illegal for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals and to refuse to provide a service to a gay customer based on his sexual orientation?


yes I did and I didn't even finish it because it's all messed up. what do you think why it's being reworked?

Who is "our"?

You are the one claiming that Indiana's Religious Objection law is discriminating against homosexuals. I simply asked you to point out where this law allows it.

It's a fair question .. I don't think I am out of line for asking you to clarify your point by backing up your claim.
 
Who is "our"?

You are the one claiming that Indiana's Religious Objection law is discriminating against homosexuals. I simply asked you to point out where this law allows it.

It's a fair question .. I don't think I am out of line for asking you to clarify your point by backing up your claim.

so is my question. it's a very fair question and I've never said you're out of line. so let's be fair, shall we since I asked first.

do you agree that it is illegal for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals and to refuse to provide a service to a gay customer based on his sexual orientation?

an answer to my question will lead to an answer to your question and you will see it very clearly.
 
so is my question. it's a very fair question and I've never said you're out of line. so let's be fair, shall we since I asked first.

do you agree that it is illegal for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals and to refuse to provide a service to a gay customer based on his sexual orientation?

an answer to my question will lead to an answer to your question and you will see it very clearly.

Your question arose after I corrected you on the meaning of the 1st Amendment.

read the 1st Amendment again (especially the part about the free exercise of religion).

It is an act of discrimination to impede any individual's free exercise of religion. So if a homosexual wishes a private business owner to perform in a ritual that is contrary to the private business owner's religious beliefs, then uses government force to make them do it, that is an act of hateful discrimination and a violation of the 1st Amendment. It has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the homosexual - it has to do with the private business owner's right to freely exercise their religion.

If a straight person wishes to use government force to compel a private business owner to perform in a ritual that is contrary to the business owner's religious belief, then that too is an act of hateful discrimination and a violation of the 1st Amendment. Again, it has nothing to do with the straight person's sexual orientation, but rather, the private business owner's 1st Amendment right to freely exercise their religious beliefs, with no impediment placed upon them, by anyone.

this has nothing do with sexual orientation discrimination, as in both above mentioned examples, the private business owner was the one violated by a straight person, as well as a homosexual person, yet the violation was the exact same thing - use of government force to force a private business owner to participate in a ritual (or other activity) that contradicts with the business owner's religious beliefs.

The law recently passed in Indiana does not give the right for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals - so please, since you made this claim, point out where this law explicitly and clearly states this. Thank you.

The law, as I understand it, protects the 1st Amendment rights of private business owners.
 
Your question arose after I corrected you on the meaning of the 1st Amendment.

read the 1st Amendment again (especially the part about the free exercise of religion).

It is an act of discrimination to impede any individual's free exercise of religion. So if a homosexual wishes a private business owner to perform in a ritual that is contrary to the private business owner's religious beliefs, then uses government force to make them do it, that is an act of hateful discrimination and a violation of the 1st Amendment. It has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of the homosexual - it has to do with the private business owner's right to freely exercise their religion.

If a straight person wishes to use government force to compel a private business owner to perform in a ritual that is contrary to the business owner's religious belief, then that too is an act of hateful discrimination and a violation of the 1st Amendment. Again, it has nothing to do with the straight person's sexual orientation, but rather, the private business owner's 1st Amendment right to freely exercise their religious beliefs, with no impediment placed upon them, by anyone.

this has nothing do with sexual orientation discrimination, as in both above mentioned examples, the private business owner was the one violated by a straight person, as well as a homosexual person, yet the violation was the exact same thing - use of government force to force a private business owner to participate in a ritual (or other activity) that contradicts with the business owner's religious beliefs.

The law recently passed in Indiana does not give the right for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals - so please, since you made this claim, point out where this law explicitly and clearly states this. Thank you.

The law, as I understand it, protects the 1st Amendment rights of private business owners.

ok so..... since you're unable to give me a simple yes-or-no answer and instead gave me a rather verbose hyperbolic rhetoric that doesn't really answer my question... I suppose we'll just move on.

do you agree that Indiana's new law is exactly same as federal religious freedom law?
 
1. Indiana's religious freedom law is not the same as federal religious freedom law called "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" signed by President Bill Clinton in 1993

2. 19 states have adopted religious freedom laws that are modeled after federal religious freedom law

3. Last February, Arizona Governor Brewer had vetoed a very similar law as Indiana's new law

4. Indiana's religious freedom law mirrors the federal religious freedom law but with two additional provisions which are causing a massive backlash since it gave a wider berth to discriminate

5. that's why this new law has been sent back to reword the language.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/us/religious-freedom-restoration-act-arkansas-indiana.html?_r=0
20 states have “religious freedom” laws. Indiana’s law, written more expansively than other states, has caused a national uproar. Critics say it could be used by businesses to deny services to gay and lesbian couples.

The bill in Arkansas is similar to the Indiana law, with both diverging in certain respects from the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act. That act was passed in 1993 and signed into law by President Bill Clinton, Arkansas’s most famous political son.

But the political context has changed widely since then. The law was spurred by an effort to protect Native Americans in danger of losing their jobs because of religious ceremonies that involved an illegal drug, peyote. Now the backdrop is often perceived to be the cultural division over same-sex marriage.

Both states’ laws allow for larger corporations, if they are substantially owned by members with strong religious convictions, to claim that a ruling or mandate violates their religious faith, something reserved for individuals or family businesses in other versions of the law. Both allow religious parties to go to court to head off a “likely” state action that they fear will impinge on their beliefs, even if it has not yet happened.

The Arkansas act contains another difference in wording, several legal experts said, that could make it harder for the government to override a claim of religious exemption. The state, according to the Arkansas bill, must show that a law or requirement that someone is challenging is “essential” to the furtherance of a compelling governmental interest, a word that is absent from the federal law and those in other states, including Indiana.

“It has way too broad an application,” said John DiPippa, a professor at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock law school, who had spoken before the legislature in 2011 on behalf of a narrower and ultimately unsuccessful version of the bill. “I never anticipated or supported applying it to for-profit companies and certainly never anticipated it applying to actions outside of government.”

As late as Tuesday afternoon, legislators who opposed the bill in Arkansas were trying to add amendments clarifying that it could not be used to discriminate against gays and lesbians, similar to what political leaders in Indiana are considering. But the sponsors of the legislation refused those amendments during the legislative process and on Tuesday dismissed them as last-minute efforts to kill the bill.

“All the way through this I thought it was unnecessary because of the fact that it didn’t do everything that everybody was saying it was doing,” Representative Bob Ballinger, a Republican and the chief sponsor of the bill, said in the minutes after the bill’s successful passage. “In hindsight maybe I would have done it to maybe avoid all the pain.”
 
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ianas-religious-freedom-law-different/388997/
“Indiana is actually soon to be just one of 20 states with a version of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, or RFRA,” the Post’s Hunter Schwarz wrote, linking to this map created by the National Conference of State Legislatures.

The problem with this statement is that, well, it’s false. That becomes clear when you read and compare those tedious state statutes. If you do that, you will find that the Indiana statute has two features the federal RFRA—and most state RFRAs—do not. First, the Indiana law explicitly allows any for-profit business to assert a right to “the free exercise of religion.” The federal RFRA doesn’t contain such language, and neither does any of the state RFRAs except South Carolina’s; in fact, Louisiana and Pennsylvania, explicitly exclude for-profit businesses from the protection of their RFRAs.

The new Indiana statute also contains this odd language: “A person whose exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened, by a violation of this chapter may assert the violation or impending violation as a claim or defense in a judicial or administrative proceeding, regardless of whether the state or any other governmental entity is a party to the proceeding.” (My italics.) Neither the federal RFRA, nor 18 of the 19 state statutes cited by the Post, says anything like this; only the Texas RFRA, passed in 1999, contains similar language.

What these words mean is, first, that the Indiana statute explicitly recognizes that a for-profit corporation has “free exercise” rights matching those of individuals or churches. A lot of legal thinkers thought that idea was outlandish until last year’s decision in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, in which the Court’s five conservatives interpreted the federal RFRA to give some corporate employers a religious veto over their employees’ statutory right to contraceptive coverage.

Second, the Indiana statute explicitly makes a business’s “free exercise” right a defense against a private lawsuit by another person, rather than simply against actions brought by government. Why does this matter? Well, there’s a lot of evidence that the new wave of “religious freedom” legislation was impelled, at least in part, by a panic over a New Mexico state-court decision, Elane Photography v. Willock. In that case, a same-sex couple sued a professional photography studio that refused to photograph the couple’s wedding. New Mexico law bars discrimination in “public accommodations” on the basis of sexual orientation. The studio said that New Mexico’s RFRA nonetheless barred the suit; but the state’s Supreme Court held that the RFRA did not apply “because the government is not a party.”

Remarkably enough, soon after, language found its way into the Indiana statute to make sure that no Indiana court could ever make a similar decision. Democrats also offered the Republican legislative majority a chance to amend the new act to say that it did not permit businesses to discriminate; they voted that amendment down.

Of all the state “religious freedom” laws I have read, this new statute hints most strongly that it is there to be used as a means of excluding gays and same-sex couples from accessing employment, housing, and public accommodations on the same terms as other people. True, there is no actual language that says, All businesses wishing to discriminate in employment, housing, and public accommodations on the basis of sexual orientation, please check this “religious objection” box. But, as Henry David Thoreau once wrote, “Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in the milk.”

So—is the fuss over the Indiana law overblown?

No.

The statute shows every sign of having been carefully designed to put new obstacles in the path of equality; and it has been publicly sold with deceptive claims that it is “nothing new.”

Being required to serve those we dislike is a painful price to pay for the privilege of running a business; but the pain exclusion inflicts on its victims, and on society, are far worse than the discomfort the faithful may suffer at having to open their businesses to all.
 
is it famous is it the people that demonstrate against gays,i think they came uk but got flung thank god
Yes, that's them but I would call them notorious or infamous, not famous.
 
yes that better words....I don't know how they equate being Christian and then calling gays fags.If we can fling them out of country why cant America shut them down..got so many factions in all relgions that hate gays so much I just don't understand why never have understood it..but saying that why tell someone who baking you a cake or your shopping how in gods name do your sexuality come into mundane daily events,it no ones business at sametime I go buy pound of potatoes I don't say can I have those potatoes and by the way I gay
 
This doesn't have anything to do with gay people. It has to do with a Constitutional right.

Where does it give the right for a private business owner to discriminate against homosexuals in Indiana's Religious Objection law?

Please show me ... :ty:

"INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - Indiana Gov. Mike Pence vigorously defended the state religious objections bill that he signed into law Thursday as businesses and organizations including the NCAA pressed concerns that it could open the door to legalizing discrimination against gay people" This was taken from the link in my first post. This is way this bill need to be reword . It should had been
DOA!
 
The problem is, that until someone feels they were discriminated against and sues in court, we really won't know if it's discriminatory or not. However such a case sets a precedent either way it's decided. Just like the hobby lobby case did
 
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/31/politics/arkansas-religious-freedom-anti-lgbt-bill/index.html
Washington (CNN)Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson says he does not plan to sign the religious freedom bill that sits on his desk right now, instead asking state lawmakers to make changes so the bill mirrors federal law.

The first-term Republican governor said he wants his state "to be known as a state that does not discriminate but understands tolerance."

"We wanted to have it crafted similar to what is at the federal level," Hutchinson said. "To do that, though, changes need to be made. The bill that is on my desk at the present time does not precisely mirror the federal law."

Hutchinson is the latest Republican governor to back away from religious freedom measures in the wake of Indiana's controversy. North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory said earlier this week that such a law "makes no sense."

very very clear that Indiana's new Religious Freedom Law is not the same as the federal religious freedom law as it is more expansive to make a tiny leeway for business owners to discriminate against people based on their sexual orientation. and now it's going back on table to most likely remove those extra provisions.
 
so no one can asnwer my question. Cool.
Lets see.what the future holds i guess..
 
My question was in post 70.
Its fair question.i think.any gay rights.activist or supporter should really give some thought too.
 
if one can force someone against their religion, to do something
What stops those opposed.to gay rights doing.the same thing against you?

I want to know..

It's to keep people civilized towards one another and not find excuse to discriminate any other person for whatsoever reason.

It goes both ways.

I'm straight person and suppose I walked in a restaurant with my married straight sister and the restaurant think we gay..... :shock: what will happen to innocent people in this situation
 
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