Declaration of Occupy Wall Street

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deafskeptic said:
I've watched the video several times and as far as I can tell she wasn't being threatening though she appears to be pulling on something then cops came down on her.
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Ugh....*shudders* my Hannah crying in that video just breaks my heart......
 
deafdyke said:
Oh for DUMB! My friends are peaceful loving people...Hannah would NEVER hurt a fly! They aren't violent protestors like egg throwing or the type to call cops pigs or whatever. Heck Sophie (other sister) stated in her status that she DID NOTHING...they weren't catcalling or reaching for a gun or anything like that. If you knew my friends, you would laugh hysteraically at the thought of them being violent.
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No one is saying they are violent. We are not even saying she did anything wrong. But clearly the officer thought she did and grabbed her. Then she either pulled away or was pulled by others. I don't think the cop attacked her.

deafdyke said:
Ugh....*shudders* my Hannah crying in that video just breaks my heart......
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That would be upsetting for me as well if it were my friend. IF the officer can not justify his actions I hope he will be punished.But I don't think we can decide that based on the video here. I can understand how you feel differently actually knowing the people involved. No one is trying to be rude to you.
 
kokonut said:
LEOs are not allowed to use pepper spray??

I tried to help in getting the guideline on that very subject but got this "I'm not asking ya!"
:dunno:
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correct!

Case #1
if LEO is not trained nor certified to pepper-spray, it is illegal. or if you want to quibble around with technicality and semantic in here, it's a violation of department policy to use any means of force or method if you are not trained in it and/or if it does not meet within departmental guidelines to justify the use of any means of force or method.

As I posted previously in my Post #2192, NYPD Deputy Inspector Bologna was disciplined by losing 10 vacation days after the pepper spraying incident was reviewed by the NYPD Internal Affairs Bureau. According to an official statement by the chief spokesman Paul J. Browne, the investigation determined that Bologna used the pepper spray outside departmental guidelines, which doesn’t allow for its use in “disorder control.”

Case #2
as posted in my Post #2381
Chancellor of University apologizes for pepper-spraying - CNN.com

Case #3
we have a new ADer in here with over 18 years of experience as LEO. Based on his professional opinion, he believed:

airportcop said:
Yes, based on the video it looks as though the cop or cops was way out of line and if that is the case he should be fired, prosecuted and sued.
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so what are you jawing on about, kokonut?
 
Jiro said:
correct!

Case #1
if LEO is not trained nor certified to pepper-spray, it is illegal. or if you want to quibble around with technicality and semantic in here, it's a violation of department policy to use any means of force or method if you are not trained in it and/or if it does not meet within departmental guidelines to justify the use of any means of force or method.

As I posted previously in my Post #2192, NYPD Deputy Inspector Bologna was disciplined by losing 10 vacation days after the pepper spraying incident was reviewed by the NYPD Internal Affairs Bureau. According to an official statement by the chief spokesman Paul J. Browne, the investigation determined that Bologna used the pepper spray outside departmental guidelines, which doesn’t allow for its use in “disorder control.”

Case #2
as posted in my Post #2381
Chancellor of University apologizes for pepper-spraying - CNN.com

Case #3
we have a new ADer in here with over 18 years of experience as LEO. Based on his professional opinion, he believed:



so what are you jawing on about, kokonut?
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Are you saying this officer at UC Davis isn't trained. I haven't seen that. :dunno:

And of course I know you were not saying that UC Davis goes by NYPD departmental policy. :lol:

What happened at UC Davis would have been against Oakland PD Policy too (not that it applies either) simply because they are sitting down but I am not aware of the California State law to which TWA is referring. Like Koko said though, I would have preferred to see the police just leave them alone in this instance. Pepper spray was definitely unnecessary in this instance whether allowed or not. Unless they are interfering with business entrances or committing crimes I say let them be.
 
Banjo said:
*shrugs*

It was pretty clear. You can't expect everyone to be like Ken Burns.
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Not really clear. Appearances can be deceiving which is why it's better to have multiple videos with better shots of that same incident to get a better and clearer picture.
 
TXgolfer said:
Are you saying this officer at UC Davis isn't trained. I haven't seen that. :dunno:
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did you miss this? ".....if it does not meet within departmental guidelines to justify the use of any means of force or method. "

Apparently, this police officer's use of pepper spray was not justified.

TXgolfer said:
And of course I know you were not saying that UC Davis goes by NYPD departmental policy. :lol:
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All departments have such policy and what I just posted is pretty much identical for all police department in USA. All LEOs must be trained and certified for use of force/methods such as tazer, pit maneuver, pepper spray, radar gun, etc.

TXgolfer said:
What happened at UC Davis would have been against Oakland PD Policy too (not that it applies either) simply because they are sitting down but I am not aware of the California State law to which TWA is referring. Like Koko said though, I would have preferred to see the police just leave them alone in this instance. Pepper spray was definitely unnecessary in this instance whether allowed or not. Unless they are interfering with business entrances or committing crimes I say let them be.
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UC Davis has its own police department. That's why they have authority to suspend them (or aka "place them on administrative leave pending investigation")
 
kokonut said:
Not really clear. Appearances can be deceiving which is why it's better to have multiple videos with better shots of that same incident to get a better and clearer picture.
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mincing around? quibbling about? jawing on?

let's admit it. you have no idea what you're talking about LOL! :cool2:
 
deafdyke said:
Oh for DUMB! My friends are peaceful loving people...Hannah would NEVER hurt a fly! They aren't violent protestors like egg throwing or the type to call cops pigs or whatever. Heck Sophie (other sister) stated in her status that she DID NOTHING...they weren't catcalling or reaching for a gun or anything like that. If you knew my friends, you would laugh hysteraically at the thought of them being violent.
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Not implying anything. My point of contention is that the video is shaky, blurry at times, and only shows half or third of what went on. It'd be tons better to have better video quality with a wider view to see what actually took place on both sides and not something that's barely a minute long with a bunch of shaking and out of focus video shots.
 
Jiro said:
did you miss this? ".....if it does not meet within departmental guidelines to justify the use of any means of force or method. "

Apparently, police officer's use of pepper spray was not justified.
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I have not seen the UC Davis Policy :dunno:

All departments have such policy and what I just posted is pretty much identical for all police department in USA. All LEOs must be trained and certified for use of force/methods such as tazer, pit maneuver, pepper spray, radar gun, etc.
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I doubt the bold, but maybe. :dunno:


UC Davis has its own police department. That's why they have authority to suspend them (or aka "place them on administrative leave pending investigation")
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Obviously.
 
TXgolfer said:
I have not seen the UC Davis Policy :dunno:

I doubt the bold, but maybe. :dunno:

Obviously.
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contact your local PD and inquire about its department policy. and contact other PD. it's all very identical.

Apparently - NYPD and UC Davis's Police Department have probably identical department policy regarding the use of pepper spray and that's why they've been spanked for violating the policy.
 
kokonut said:
Not really clear. Appearances can be deceiving which is why it's better to have multiple videos with better shots of that same incident to get a better and clearer picture.
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kokonut said:
Not implying anything. My point of contention is that the video is shaky, blurry at times, and only shows half or third of what went on. It'd be tons better to have better video quality with a wider view to see what actually took place on both sides and not something that's barely a minute long with a bunch of shaking and out of focus video shots.
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same shit, different words.

is there a reason to post this twice? what's the matter? my post's undermining your hulkiness? I'm just a little Asian guy and I probably can't carry your fireman ax :dunno2:
 
My bro's an aggie (attends UCDavis). He said that if anything, the school is apologizing for the officer's behavior.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t--SdwpdfRY"]Occupy Rome POLICE VOILENCE.. PEOPLE FIGHT BACK - YouTube[/ame]

If US woke up, realized they could fight back the police like these other countries are doing, it would change the way the protests are going. See the Rome citizens fight back.

I always used to think that protests in other countries are much more vocal and violent than the ones in the US.. People here are unlikely to take action or initiative to put the police down in response for unwarranted behavior.
 
naisho said:
Occupy Rome POLICE VOILENCE.. PEOPLE FIGHT BACK - YouTube

If US woke up, realized they could fight back the police like these other countries are doing, it would change the way the protests are going. See the Rome citizens fight back.

I always used to think that protests in other countries are much more vocal and violent than the ones in the US.. People here are unlikely to take action or initiative to put the police down in response for unwarranted behavior.
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That would be interesting.
 
“I appreciate you guys making your point; let me go ahead and make mine,” Obama said before continuing his speech. “I'll listen to you, you listen to me, OK?”

A few minutes later, Obama acknowledged the Occupy protest movement again, saying: “You are the reason I ran for office.”
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Obama to Occupy Wall St. Protesters: "You are the reason I ran for office." | The Weekly Standard

Makes sense....


“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night.
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Obama brings a gun to a knife fight - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com

"I want you to argue with them and get in their face."
Did ACORN Take Obama’s ‘Get In Their Face’ Rallying Cry Literally? - By Jim Geraghty - The Campaign Spot - National Review Online

"It's tempting not to negoitate with hostage takers unless the hostage gets harmed," President Obama said at his Tuesday press conference. "In this case, the hostage was the American people," Obama said.
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RealClearPolitics - Video - Obama Calls The GOP "Hostage Takers" Over Tax Cut Compromise
 
just FYI - "OWS" is not a singular organization. It's a movement. The idea. 1% vs. 99%. There is no chain of command or a leader. There is no collusion between Occupy agents. Occupy Rome is not the same as Occupy Wall Street. Majority of "OWS" protests in entire USA is peaceful and non-violent. OWS does not speak for Occupy Rome nor orchestrate it.

I believe what we're seeing in that video is a work of professional rioters inciting violence and vandalism just for their own perverse amusement.
 
TXgolfer said:
No one is saying they are violent. We are not even saying she did anything wrong. But clearly the officer thought she did and grabbed her. Then she either pulled away or was pulled by others. I don't think the cop attacked her.



That would be upsetting for me as well if it were my friend. IF the officer can not justify his actions I hope he will be punished.But I don't think we can decide that based on the video here. I can understand how you feel differently actually knowing the people involved. No one is trying to be rude to you.
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You're implying that she did something wrong and the cop is in the right with your stance here though. You do not understand. My second Mom (Hannah and Sophie's real mom) was SO pissed about Hannah getting attacked, she was going to go down to NYC that night from VT. This is a woman who was VERY proud of Hannah for being arrested for performing a rodeo dressed as a clown on the Wall St Bull : [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfrf71ALsEs]CLOWNS ARRESTED IN NEAR-SUCCESSFUL ATTACK ON WALL STREET BULL - YouTube[/ame]
and for her sister for defending Zucotti Park chained to something. If the cop had NOT attacked her, and it was an innocent little mistake, Mama Nan would NOT have been so pissed.(I know this woman very well, and love her as my own) It was a legit attack from what I hear from Nancy, Sophie and the other Occupiers. Sophie said in her status that the NYPD put handcuffs on Hannah's hand so tight they turned purple!?!? And Nancy posted Hannah's text from when she was released " Mom....I'm out, I got kind of beaten up but not too bad." ...and as I said in an e-mail to Mama Nan "this is really riling my activist and journalistic senstabilties....and I would be pissed even if Hannah was not my dear friend."
 
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