A Violation of Human Rights Re: Forcing A Deaf Child to Wear CI

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LDNanna said:
Hmph. It is my personal opinion only - AGBell is the Antichrist. Just throwing that out in a random way.

(squeeek-squeeek as I wipe my monitor)
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:giggle:

I wonder if AGBell is still alive today, would he be charged in committing genocide against the deaf?
 
Miss-Delectable said:
:giggle:

I wonder if AGBell is still alive today, would he be charged in committing genocide against the deaf?
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He would most certainly be charged with hate crimes for some of the statements he made against the deaf. And no doubt with falsifying data due to his gross misrepresentation of genetics.
 
Just got on AD and wow @ this thread. I am totally confused at all the different topics that I dont know where to begin.

However, it is not a bad thing though.

I grew up with 2 other oral deaf girls and an oral deaf guy since 18 months old. One died 15 years ago but she became fluent in ASL during high school and the rest of us are now fluent in ASL and active members in the Deaf community.
 
jillio said:
He would most certainly be charged with hate crimes for some of the statements he made against the deaf. And no doubt with falsifying data due to his gross misrepresentation of genetics.
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I read somewhere that he made deaf marry hearing because he believed that deaf children wouldn't materialise out of the union.

Well, would be nice to see the charges be brought forth and make it stick, if he was alive.
 
Grendel, I think the deaf adults you spoke with may have an outdated view of Deaf Ed and ASL. Until the last twenty years, Deaf Schools and ASL weren't exactly the best educational placements. A lot of them had kids who were really language delayed (both spoken and signed), and that reflected in its test scores and acheivements.
I think the oral and mainstream=better education mindset is a holdover from the bad old days. I really do think that a lot of the deaf adults advocating mainstream and oral would be amazed at what they see happening at Rocky Mountain Deaf School or TLC or MSSD or Maryland School for the Deaf or Texas School for the Deaf or Kansas School for the Deaf. Yes, they're not exactly producing a lot of kids who go to Ivy League Schools (sorry matajan) Hell, there are hoh kids attending Deaf Schools nowadays! . You would not have seen that twenty years ago!
Now here's an interesting point to ponder. Did you know that 50 years ago 80% of blind kids were Braille users? It fell out of favor. The emphasis was on getting them to use their residual vision AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. As a matter of fact, one of my friends attended Perkins less then 20 years ago, and he never learned Braille, although he went to Blind School. (he uses large print) The argument was that blind and low vision kids did not need Braille, they needed technology like books on tape or those giant magnifiers...CCTVs I believe they are called. Anyway, although technology has improved, employment rates in the blind/low vision community are very low. The kicker.....turns out that those blind as kids who are literate in Braille are the ones who are employed in good jobs?!?! Sound familiar?
someone will claim that oral kids are in too intensive language "therapy" in oral schools or at home with AV and say that those kids end up with good language because of "over acheiving parents". So then the poster claims that therapy should be less frequent and less intense, and says tht those kids end up with bad language....uh, then should MORE parents be doing MORE not less?
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faire joure, you just don't get it. I mean poor language as more then misuse of spoken English syntax. Many deaf kids can develop OK spoken language. Not nessarily on par, but more like the language delays an LD kid might deal with. Also, you're forgetting that even oral kids may often have reading and expressive writing difficulties. HELLO, that is why the cued speech association advertises in Volta Voices!
I do think that many kids should have the right to good quality speech therapy (ie a speechie who is experianced with dhh kids) and experianced TODS....but you're completly missing that those aren't usually available in a solotaire mainstream enviorment....and many parents are resistant to sending their kids away to Clarke or Deaf programs. How do you know that enrolling the kids in a Deaf School or a Dhh ed program wouldn't improve their spoken language and language abilties in general more then MORE AND MORE AND MORE therapy. Why the hell should a dhh kid have to live life as an eternal speech therapy session? You do when you're oral!
 
deafdyke said:
Grendel, I think the deaf adults you spoke with may have an outdated view of Deaf Ed and ASL. Until the last twenty years, Deaf Schools and ASL weren't exactly the best educational placements. A lot of them had kids who were really language delayed (both spoken and signed), and that reflected in its test scores and acheivements.
I think the oral and mainstream=better education mindset is a holdover from the bad old days. I really do think that a lot of the deaf adults advocating mainstream and oral would be amazed at what they see happening at Rocky Mountain Deaf School or TLC or MSSD or Maryland School for the Deaf or Texas School for the Deaf or Kansas School for the Deaf. Yes, they're not exactly producing a lot of kids who go to Ivy League Schools (sorry matajan) Hell, there are hoh kids attending Deaf Schools nowadays! . You would not have seen that twenty years ago!
Now here's an interesting point to ponder. Did you know that 50 years ago 80% of blind kids were Braille users? It fell out of favor. The emphasis was on getting them to use their residual vision AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. As a matter of fact, one of my friends attended Perkins less then 20 years ago, and he never learned Braille, although he went to Blind School. (he uses large print) The argument was that blind and low vision kids did not need Braille, they needed technology like books on tape or those giant magnifiers...CCTVs I believe they are called. Anyway, although technology has improved, employment rates in the blind/low vision community are very low. The kicker.....turns out that those blind as kids who are literate in Braille are the ones who are employed in good jobs?!?! Sound familiar?

faire joure, you just don't get it. I mean poor language as more then misuse of spoken English syntax. Many deaf kids can develop OK spoken language. Not nessarily on par, but more like the language delays an LD kid might deal with. Also, you're forgetting that even oral kids may often have reading and expressive writing difficulties. HELLO, that is why the cued speech association advertises in Volta Voices!
I do think that many kids should have the right to good quality speech therapy (ie a speechie who is experianced with dhh kids) and experianced TODS....but you're completly missing that those aren't usually available in a solotaire mainstream enviorment....and many parents are resistant to sending their kids away to Clarke or Deaf programs. How do you know that enrolling the kids in a Deaf School or a Dhh ed program wouldn't improve their spoken language and language abilties in general more then MORE AND MORE AND MORE therapy. Why the hell should a dhh kid have to live life as an eternal speech therapy session? You do when you're oral!
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The key to achieving a strong language is full 100% access to language during the early years and read, read, read.

For deaf children...the language that is 100% accessible to them is ASL.

It is also 100% accessible to hearing kids as well.

So let's change the official language of the USA...ASL!
 
shel90 said:
The key to achieving a strong language is full 100% access to language during the early years and read, read, read.

For deaf children...the language that is 100% accessible to them is ASL.

It is also 100% accessible to hearing kids as well.

So let's change the official language of the USA...ASL!
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The problem is that USA doesnt have an official language.
 
I grew up with 2 other oral deaf girls and an oral deaf guy since 18 months old. One died 15 years ago but she became fluent in ASL during high school and the rest of us are now fluent in ASL and active members in the Deaf community
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I do have to say that I think that Deaf Schools and Dhh programs should emphasize that they welcome oral dhh kids who are struggling in the mainstream or who have hit the fourth grade glass ceiling. I think that would help a LOT!!!! I mean many if not most oral deaf kids do well until about fourth grade, and then BOOM!
 
deafdyke said:
I do have to say that I think that Deaf Schools and Dhh programs should emphasize that they welcome oral dhh kids who are struggling in the mainstream or who have hit the fourth grade glass ceiling. I think that would help a LOT!!!! I mean many if not most oral deaf kids do well until about fourth grade, and then BOOM!
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Well, we didnt struggle enough academically but struggled socially especially in our teen years. We all had dinner together in Arizona a few years ago and talked about our upbringing. We all agreed that we wished we werent raised oral-only.
 
shel90 said:
Well, we didnt struggle enough academically but struggled socially especially in our teen years. We all had dinner together in Arizona a few years ago and talked about our upbringing. We all agreed that we wished we werent raised oral-only.
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Out of curiosity, did you guys talk about a specific school that you guys wish you have gone to instead?
 
shel90 said:
Well, we didnt struggle enough academically but struggled socially especially in our teen years. We all had dinner together in Arizona a few years ago and talked about our upbringing. We all agreed that we wished we werent raised oral-only.
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I've the same question as daredevel, Shel.
 
Wirelessly posted

jillio said:
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



except that you were wrong. She was clearly talking about spoken english, and in fact, came back and openly stated that.

where is your apology for saying that the rest of us "can't read" or were "twisting things"?
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Do you mean "accept"? So much for not being able to read.:lol: Why would I apologize for something I have no regrets in saying?
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nope, meant except.

You keep saying "written english" and she said she meant spoken english.

"i'm right and here's why..." "ok, except the fact that you are wrong"

who has the reading issue?
 
I know daredevel and grendelq were asking shel, but I'd like to answer too. I asked my parents this so many times. Especially after an episode around 9th grade where kids threw apples at me at lunch. The answer was always no. They felt (and said) I would suffer academically if I switched schools. I think you can garner what I think of that.
 
AlleyCat said:
I know daredevel and grendelq were asking shel, but I'd like to answer too. I asked my parents this so many times. Especially after an episode around 9th grade where kids threw apples at me at lunch. The answer was always no. They felt (and said) I would suffer academically if I switched schools. I think you can garner what I think of that.
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Where would you have preferred to go, alley cat?
 
GrendelQ said:
Where would you have preferred to go, alley cat?
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Frankly, any other school! Because Minneapolis has a very large deaf population, there are a large number of schools around the metro area that cater to the deaf, so there's a large deaf population base within the school. Of course, when I say large, I might be talking as small as 10 or 15. But heck, I would take that any day over being one in a school of 2000 that either picked on me or ignored me. It seems that traveling in numbers counts for something, you're more accepted because you're not as unusual as ONE might be perceived to be. The deaf friends I had at those schools all seemed to be happy. I knew and met them from summer deaf camp.
 
Faire joure actually i(mastery of English whether written or spoken)t can vary tremedously from oral kid to oral kid.Granted the severe or profound or even moderately severe spoken language delays that were common in years past, are unusual now. But a lot of oral kids still have issues with English whether written or spoken.
I wasn't asked which school I wish I'd gone to, but I will jump in anyway. I wish I'd gone to a mainstream school with a strong sizable established Dhh program.That would have been SO perfect in so many ways. I would have gotten the advantage of challenging reading classes and language arts. Unlike a lot of Dhh kids reading and language arts was always my forte. I would have gotten time in the Resource Room for math, spelling and handwriting. But at the same time,, I would have been able to deal with teachers and admins who were trained how to teach dhh kids. Instead I was given minimal accomondations, and then when I didn't suceed with those, I was lumped in with the "warehoused" kids whose only problem was that they were completely apatheitc towards learning (and I am NOT talking about kids with intellectucal disabilties or the kids who were dealing with severe behavorial issues) I don't think anyone here is "Mainstream school sucks, all dhh kids should go to Deaf School."
We're just objecting to the kneejerk "mainstream solotaire" placement, as the Ideal Placement for ALL dhh kids. Too many times, kids are lumped in and not served well in that type of placement!
 
deafdyke said:
Faire joure actually i(mastery of English whether written or spoken)t can vary tremedously from oral kid to oral kid.Granted the severe or profound or even moderately severe spoken language delays that were common in years past, are unusual now. But a lot of oral kids still have issues with English whether written or spoken.
I wasn't asked which school I wish I'd gone to, but I will jump in anyway. I wish I'd gone to a mainstream school with a strong sizable established Dhh program.That would have been SO perfect in so many ways. I would have gotten the advantage of challenging reading classes and language arts. Unlike a lot of Dhh kids reading and language arts was always my forte. I would have gotten time in the Resource Room for math, spelling and handwriting. But at the same time,, I would have been able to deal with teachers and admins who were trained how to teach dhh kids. Instead I was given minimal accomondations, and then when I didn't suceed with those, I was lumped in with the "warehoused" kids whose only problem was that they were completely apatheitc towards learning (and I am NOT talking about kids with intellectucal disabilties or the kids who were dealing with severe behavorial issues) I don't think anyone here is "Mainstream school sucks, all dhh kids should go to Deaf School."
We're just objecting to the kneejerk "mainstream solotaire" placement, as the Ideal Placement for ALL dhh kids. Too many times, kids are lumped in and not served well in that type of placement!
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DD, I think the CASE Collaborative does what you describe, by bringing together regional deaf & HOH students into one public school and addressing their needs together. One pretty big issue: it's not an ASL program.
 
jillio said:
They don't choose to be oral. They have never been given another option. That is hardly a choice.
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For all of us, that path was chosen which is unfortunate.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Out of curiosity, did you guys talk about a specific school that you guys wish you have gone to instead?
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No..just that we wished we had ASL and were involved with the Deaf community instead of just hearing people only. The topic of which school we wanted to attend never came up.

However, I have begged my mom to send me to Phoenix Day School for the Deaf when I was in middle school and the answer was no.
 
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