How to save residental programs?

I have bad experience in cottage is similar to dorm only at CSD-Fremont, had been resided there for more than six years.
 
Ok..then if you want them shut down, where would the kids go if they live far from the Deaf schools?

Also, about the group homes, where should deaf adults who aren't mentally capable of taking care of themselves go?

Iam working at my 2nd job as a residence counselor. The house is a lot bigger then mine and in a very nice neighborhood. Has cable, nice furniture, the residents have their own room, plenty of food, and get to go to different events that interest them. The residents don't seem like they are endangered.

:dunno:

Maybe I am just lucky that I have worked at good agencies and Deaf schools. I hope the ones that are bad like many of you said have or will take action to improve their programs.
 
Wirelessly posted

Did you see extreme makeover? It look like hardly anyone did anything to improve the dorm for the boys. I don't think we should shut it down but I rather the children be with their parents and look for different solution that will encourage children to be with their parents while making sure dorms are safe.
 
Bottesini said:
You keep asking and more people keep giving you the answer you don't want to hear.
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Iam on my pager so I probably missed some posts.

I didn't see anything in response to about the dorms being good for many kids just how it was a bad place for some of you and I have said that I was sorry to hear that.

Can u show me where someone responded to my question about it being good for some kids? I know Oceanbreeze has responded but I don't see any responds to that question from those who are against them. Just that they are awful...ok, fine and I am sorry for it but to some kids, it was a good experience for them. It is hard to scroll thru the posts on this ancient pager.

Thank you
 
shel90 said:
Iam on my pager so I probably missed some posts.

I didn't see anything in response to about the dorms being good for many kids just how it was a bad place for some of you and I have said that I was sorry to hear that.

Can u show me where someone responded to my question about it being good for some kids? I know Oceanbreeze has responded but I don't see any responds to that question from those who are against them. Just that they are awful...ok, fine and I am sorry for it but to some kids, it was a good experience for them. It is hard to scroll thru the posts on this ancient pager.

Thank you
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People are afraid of you. Read the thread and you will see most responses say we had bad experiences and would never put our kids in these living situations.


You have never lived in one.
They just don't say it right to you.
 
Bottesini said:
People are afraid of you. Read the thread and you will see most responses say we had bad experiences and would never put our kids in these living situations.


You have never lived in one.
They just don't say it right to you.
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You are right..I have never lived in one.

I have stated that I wouldn't put my child in one either.

I have already said that I don't propose for every child to be put in one.

Now, what about those kids or my friends who liked living there and were happier there than at their homes? Unless they are lying about it. Dunno. Maybe they are lying about it and if they are, then that's sad.

I don't run the dorms but I have visited them and I think it would be better for older kids, not very young kids but sometimes kids are in situations where their families couldn't take care of them, don't want to deal with them, or live far away from the school. Where should they go instead?

Someone brought up foster care but how many are there out there that can meet deaf children's communication needs? I think it would be great if there was several people who are fluent in ASL and understanding of deaf needs be willing to provide foster care but unfortunately, reality is that it doesn't happen everywhere.


Hope the dorms and group homes get shut down so people won't longer be miserable if that's the best solution.
 
shel90 said:
You are right..I have never lived in one.

I have stated that I wouldn't put my child in one either.

I have already said that I don't propose for every child to be put in one.

Now, what about those kids or my friends who liked living there and were happier there than at their homes? Unless they are lying about it. Dunno. Maybe they are lying about it and if they are, then that's sad.

I don't run the dorms but I have visited them and I think it would be better for older kids, not very young kids but sometimes kids are in situations where their families couldn't take care of them, don't want to deal with them, or live far away from the school. Where should they go instead?

Someone brought up foster care but how many are there out there that can meet deaf children's communication needs? I think it would be great if there was several people who are fluent in ASL and understanding of deaf needs be willing to provide foster care but unfortunately, reality is that it doesn't happen everywhere.


Hope the dorms and group homes get shut down so people won't longer be miserable if that's the best solution.
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I brought up foster homes. And I said qualified. That means deaf parents or parents fluent in ASL. And stringent inspections.
 
Bottesini said:
I brought up foster homes. And I said qualified. That means deaf parents or parents fluent in ASL. And stringent inspections.
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Ok..thanks. I am using my pager so it is hard for me to go back and reread all the posts in this thread.

Yea, that would be a good idea so got any ideas on how to get this idea started? Make a proposal to the Dept of Social Services or?

Would that apply to kids whose parents live far away from the deaf schools? Those kids who still go home on the weekends or school breaks. Have them stay with a family who lives close to the school as well? Just making sure I am reading you correctly.

Now..where do deaf adults who are incapble of taking care of themselves should go if all group home agencies get shut down? I don't have any ideas.
 
My late uncle with a mind of 2 or 3 years old was sterilized after a woman complained that he bothered her. I never could see him bothering anyone as he usually just sit there. I never heard him speak. I had a feeling that the woman was just making trouble. I guess my grandparents had him sterilized just to avoid trouble.
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Oh, kind of like in the Sound and the Fury. I can see both sides in cases like this. On one hand, there is the risk for abuse and the slippery slope (remember the debate on the Ashley Treatment from a few years ago) On the other hand, there are some cases where something like this could be appropreate. Like say for example, if a kid was a FAS kid or if an intellectucally disabled girl did not understand about relationships (I know a case where an intellectucally disabled girl was raped and she thought that the rapist was her boyfriend)
Now back on topic.
nd I think it would be better for older kids, not very young kids but sometimes kids are in situations where their families couldn't take care of them, don't want to deal with them, or live far away from the school.
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Exactly!!!!! Or the kids might be from situtions where they're from the middle of no where or from really bad living situtions or whatever. Not every kid has the advantage of living near good schools or whatever. I do agree most of the time, parents should wait until middle school or fourth grade-ish to send them off to live in a dorm. I'm ALL for contimum of placement, and I am familair with child development. If someone asked me I would reccomend either placement in a formal established dhh day program or day Deaf school for early on, and then MAYBE placement in a residental setting. Many kids can be served that way.....which is awesome. But even with that, there are still some outliers who for whatever reason can't be served at a day program or who are from really bad or unusual situtions. I am NOT arguing for ALL kids to attend residental schools. Just hypothesizing that maybe some outliar/underserved in the mainstream/ kids from kind of unusual situtions might actually thrive there. Heck, the DODAs who attend residental schools from an early age seem to have done well emotionally.
Botte, and all, I understand 100% that in the past group homes and residental programs weren't that great. But has it occurred to you that many of them may have IMPROVED?!?!?! Yes, set ups like that used to be horrible, and very underfunded and all......Like they used to be basicly a step above Willowbrook or whatever. But they have improved a hell of a lot. They're not Club Med or whatever no......but they have improved from the "reform school style dorms.
 
deafdyke said:
Oh, kind of like in the Sound and the Fury. I can see both sides in cases like this. On one hand, there is the risk for abuse and the slippery slope (remember the debate on the Ashley Treatment from a few years ago) On the other hand, there are some cases where something like this could be appropreate. Like say for example, if a kid was a FAS kid or if an intellectucally disabled girl did not understand about relationships (I know a case where an intellectucally disabled girl was raped and she thought that the rapist was her boyfriend)
Now back on topic.
Exactly!!!!! Or the kids might be from situtions where they're from the middle of no where or from really bad living situtions or whatever. Not every kid has the advantage of living near good schools or whatever. I do agree most of the time, parents should wait until middle school or fourth grade-ish to send them off to live in a dorm. I'm ALL for contimum of placement, and I am familair with child development. If someone asked me I would reccomend either placement in a formal established dhh day program or day Deaf school for early on, and then MAYBE placement in a residental setting. Many kids can be served that way.....which is awesome. But even with that, there are still some outliers who for whatever reason can't be served at a day program or who are from really bad or unusual situtions. I am NOT arguing for ALL kids to attend residental schools. Just hypothesizing that maybe some outliar/underserved in the mainstream/ kids from kind of unusual situtions might actually thrive there. Heck, the DODAs who attend residental schools from an early age seem to have done well emotionally.
Botte, and all, I understand 100% that in the past group homes and residental programs weren't that great. But has it occurred to you that many of them may have IMPROVED?!?!?! Yes, set ups like that used to be horrible, and very underfunded and all......Like they used to be basicly a step above Willowbrook or whatever. But they have improved a hell of a lot. They're not Club Med or whatever no......but they have improved from the "reform school style dorms.
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DD, they don't care...they want to see these programs shut down for good.

Fine, shut them down. Most people hate Deaf programs anyway.
 
shel90 said:
DD, they don't care...they want to see these programs shut down for good.

Fine, shut them down. Most people hate Deaf programs anyway.
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Forgive me, Shel, but that is an awfully bitter filled statement. I can understand your frustration, though.

I know I'm not deaf, but, I hope my opinion counts for something, and those of us with a more moderate view.

You can't discount what a lot of the people are saying. From the way it looks, residential placements were pretty awful for those who were in them 20-40 yrs ago or so. YOU CANNOT discount that and nobody should. But, your point is well taken. You can't let a kid slip through the cracks, either, because that's just as damaging. So, the question becomes what do you do? You can't forget the past because history will repeat itself. Letting a school stay open under an abusive regime will have tragic consequences for students for possibly decades to come. You just can't ignore that. ...

But, you can't ignore the needs of kids who aren't thriving in mainstream schools, either. Again, the solution is to change the medicalized view of deafness. Advocate for ASL through a child's development; even when a CI is opted for. And, keep the deaf school's open and funded so that there is proper support for those kids that need the placement.

Also, safe gaurd the students that are enrolled by hiring staff that are experienced in handling the needs of the deaf student. Have background checks in place, and, if someone is spotty, DO NOT hire them! Have a neutral party investigate allegations should they surface. All of this can ensure the safety and well being of the kids, and, keep the schools open for those who need them. I don't think ANYONE wants to shut these schools down. That's obviously NOT the answer, but, to argue with people who've been hurt is just going to cause hard feelings. People who've had bad experiences matter. We've ALL had them. I've had my own garbage to deal with. It's tragic, but, it happens. It's what you DO with it that counts!
 
With all the stupid arguments that went on about the costs of sending deaf kids to Deaf schools, about spoken language being superior and how awful it is to have voice off in the classrooms, how abusive dorms are, the low standards we teachers at deaf schools have set for our studnets, I say that more people hate Deaf programs than those who belive in them

Whatever these people want...go for it.

I try to bring the positive light on Deaf programs only to get blasted. Oh well
 
shel90 said:
With all the stupid arguments that went on about the costs of sending deaf kids to Deaf schools, about spoken language being superior and how awful it is to have voice off in the classrooms, how abusive dorms are, the low standards we teachers at deaf schools have set for our studnets, I say that more people hate Deaf programs than those who belive in them

Whatever these people want...go for it.

I try to bring the positive light on Deaf programs only to get blasted. Oh well
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Hon, that's because some of them have had REALLY bad experiences in some residential schools. You can't help that, I know. But, neither can they. I'm not one who is bitter about anything, but, that doesn't mean I can't empathize with those who were abused, and there were quite a few who were. I was never in a residential school, but, I was abused. I grew up much like you did. Shunned; teased, ect. This was in a mainstream environment. I'll grant you that, but, the point I'm making is that abuse can/does happen anywhere. And, it happened in residential schools for a lot of these people.

As I said, I feel your frustration. I do. The way things have gone for the last (I'm going to say 30 yrs because that's how long I've been exposed to things) has sucked. I know that for the deaf/Deaf it has sucked a lot longer than that. Oralism/Audism has wrecked havoc. But, being bitter won't change anything. Getting angry enough to WANT to change things WILL.

The title of this thread is HOW to save Res schools. So, OK... How do we change things to make things better for this generation and the next? CIs aren't going away. ABIs aren't going away. Oralism/Audism sure as hell isn't, so, how can people live with it and still thrive? I still say change must start at the root problem! The medical establishment. You can picket AGBell until you're blue, but, I don't think that's gonna do it. You must train your future Drs, audis, and SLPs to incorporate ASL right from the start. A lot of the time, parents with profoundly deaf children who opt for CIs, DROP sign once the CI is activated. That must stop. SLPs tell parents that ASL will interfere with the child learning to speak. THIS thinking must stop. There's a whole lot wrong, but, change has to come from people like you who lived the experiences that you did. Walking away and saying "Screw the audists!" isn't going EFFECT change. It's just going to make both sides dig their heels in deeper and exclaim that they're right, and the other side is wrong, which, won't help anyone.
 
OCB..I love your attidue.

I guess I am just feeling pissed off because some of my students got moved to hearing teacher's classrooms because they want hearing teachers to meet their CI needs.


I figured...again I am being discriminated by these hearing people (not you), why not just do away with any Deaf programs while they are at it. Kick me anf dmany other staffs out of our fields and render us unemployed.

Nothing new under the sun getting constantly discrimainated against.

People here, even deaf members, hate the concept of dorms. I have to take their word for it as they experienced it personally, not me.

So..iam trying to find a solution to this mess. I am NOT a miracle worker. I need support. If I don't get it..then I won't give up my life for it. Sorry.

OB..I agree with u on all counts but many others don't. The majority speaks, heh?
 
Bottesini said:
Residential schools are not always the paradise you paint them to be, and furthermore it is not necessarily true that just by being there your will make friends. There are rejects in every crowd who suffer torment.
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I agree with you!

I was bullied a lot in the residential school I went to when I was older (I went when I was 6 and there was no bullying but when I was there in middle and high school there was so much bullying, teasing, and I was picked on so much because of my sexuality and other things. I was the reject, I was an outcast in high school. I went back and forth between public schools and the residential school from age 3 til I was 18.

I don't really support residential schools for the most part BUT it can be good for SOME students who have serious language/reading/education difficulties or for some students like me who needed a leg-up for a year or two, and for these who live in very rural areas far far far away and is the only deaf student in the entire public school or in the entire town, stuff like that. But if you live in or near a big city with plenty of resources for the deaf like I was, chances are you would do well with a couple of years in the residential school just to get caught up with English, ASL, and other subjects and then transfer to a public school with a DHH classroom in your city and then eventually become fully mainstreamed in that school with interpreters while having one or two classes in the DHH classroom so you can have some interaction with the other deaf students and the TOD. I honestly think I should have gone to the residential school right off the bat and stayed there until maybe the second grade and then come back to the city for good and go to the DHH classroom at the local public school for elementary school, and then eventually become fully mainstreamed once I entered middle school. and I think I would have done quite well that way, instead of being placed in an oral classroom in a public school in preschool, pre-k, and kindergarten where I couldn't understand anything except LSM! (I had several Deaf friends my age who had just moved to my city from Mexico that I used to play with all the time and that was where I picked up the LSM) I've had teachers scream at me because I didn't do my schoolwork (how could I? I had no language except LSM! I didn't understand what I was supposed to do with the piece of paper laid in front of me!) I've been tied to a chair and have had my hands taped. I've been physically restrained to the cot during nap time just because I couldn't fall asleep (I had ADHD and was a hyperactive kid when I was a child and now it's just ADD - can't help that!). I don't blame my mother, though, for placing me in that oral program...she was just doing what she thought was the best for me. (she had me when she was just 16 and tried to make the best decisions she thought she possibly could make. She was just a teenager trying to make decisions that normally parents in their mid-20's usually make. She was just 18 or 19 when she enrolled me into the oral program. She did her best and always sought advice when she needed it. She realized that I wasn't making progress and that I couldn't communicate with anyone except my friends from Mexico, and sought advice when I was almost 6 and not making progress at all in language. Residential school was brought up, and she decided that after my 6th birthday she would be sending me to the residential school for the deaf for at least a year and see how I would do there. I made a lot of progress there, although it was tough. Learning ASL was rather easy but learning English as a third language was quite difficult but I managed to learn enough English and to understand and write English by the end of the 1st grade that I was able to make more progress in the English language when I went back to the city and was enrolled in another local public school where there was a DHH classroom where signs were used. After that I made a lot of progress and by the 5th grade something turned the light bulb on in my brain and from there English began to make so much sense for me that I passed my English subject with flying colors as well as all the other subject except math (as usual - I suck at math).
 
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deafgal001 said:
It's either Foster Care or Deaf school (and who knows what Foster care do with deaf children??)
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As a former foster care child, I can tell you that foster care is pure HELL most of the time. I have been in SEVEN foster care placements in 5 years and I can tell you that out of the 7 foster care placements, only two foster homes were decent and wonderful, and only one foster care placements were decent. The rest were HELL ON EARTH!!! I was in the foster care system from age 13 until age 18. It is no picnic! I am jaded by all the shit that happened in these 5 years! And guess what? My own mother was also in foster care as well as all my aunts and uncles (all 7 children of my grandmother's) because my grandmother was with a guy who was sexually abusing some of the 7 children and the state found out and took all 7 children away until my grandma got rid of the guy. My mom had me while she was 16 and still in foster care herself. Fortunately, Grandma got rid of the bad guy, so we were able to come back and live with Grandma. But none of the others came back. I am a second generation Foster Care kid, and I hope I can put a stop to that cycle.
 
Bottesini said:
Get them into a qualified foster home, where they can experience family life, and not develop institutionalized behaviors.

And I really should not say more.
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Good foster homes are very rare. Trust me.

And many foster care children often end up with institutionalized behaviors because of the type of placements that they have been in, and the length of their stays there. They begin to think they will never leave, and develop such behaviors.
 
deafgal001 said:
you should be glad that orphanage don't really exist anymore. My MIL, and several friends were orphanages. I think these days they call it group home.
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Actually, orphanages do still exist. I was in one for three years, from age 13 til 16. It was NO fun. Trust me. It was a living hell. They still exist. They just call them "children's home" now.

Group homes are different - they are for foster children with behavioral problems.
of course, Foster kids do move one place to another.
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Yes they do - a lot. I've been in seven foster homes/placements/children's homes over a period of 5 years.
 
LuciaDisturbed said:
Actually, orphanages do still exist. I was in one for three years, from age 13 til 16. It was NO fun. Trust me. It was a living hell. They still exist. They just call them "children's home" now.

Group homes are different - they are for foster children with behavioral problems.


Yes they do - a lot. I've been in seven foster homes/placements/children's homes over a period of 5 years.
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Yes and no. There are many types of group homes. Some are for kids with behavioral issues. But, there are also group homes for the mentally and physically disabled as well. I've known a few of my peers who were in them. Some are good, but, some are horrible. I would never want to take my chances with one.
 
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