How to save residental programs?

Having adopted my child from an institutional environment, I wouldn't choose to place her back in one anytime soon.
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On the other hand, the thing is that dorms don't nescessarily mean insistutionalized. Are kids who attend Philips Andover or other boarding schools "insistutionalized" b/c they live in the dorms? Nowadays, dorms are more like group homes, rather then Depression era/Willowbrook style places. I definitly think many kids should start out in a day program for preschool, and the early grades. I think that a dorm placement is an awesome option for middle schoolers and high schoolers, as it helps them develop independent living skills. Family is awesome and all...and I do think most kids can benifit from living with their family.....but so is going off and learnign to be indepedent. A lot of teens with disabilties are super sheltered and need to learn independance.

It was the follow-up discussion equating poverty with bad parenting that I object to.
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And to clarify, I was NOT equating poverty with bad parenting. I was saying that in the cases where there's some really bad concerns and stuff that parents can't deal with, it might be a good idea to give their kids the option of maybe living at school that's all. Not all poor families no....It would be very carefully monitored and only used in cases where there's a clear need demonstrated.

Let's not demonize residential schools. I'm trying not to do that here, because, lets face it. Some kids thrive in them. I honestly believe that, and, I don't want to see them shut down. However, what needs to happen when there IS abuse going on, is that the administration MUST deal with it APPROPRIATELY. Banjo makes a good point. When you don't report the abuse, and keep the child safe, they are often damaged FOR LIFE. But again, abuse can happen any time, anywhere. It's just how sick our society IS.

My first post in this thread was simply to say that *I* am leery about sending a kid off. In NO way, am I saying that it shouldn't be done. In a perfect world, it wouldn't be necessary. But, sometimes, it IS necessary. That's just life. But, no, residential school should NOT be necessary. Parents have a God given responsability to provide for their needs.

A lot of parents have been given the wrong advice by professionals, and, I really believe that is where things are getting SO freaking screwed up! Exactly what DO you do with a child who couldn't grasp English, and, they missed the window to learn ASL? We have such a person on this forum. I mean no disrespect, but, he is very difficult for some to understand because he's not fluent in either language (English or ASL). Trying to understand someone who doesn't have the foundation for either is DIFFICULT. Exactly, what happens to a child such as this?

So, no, I don't want to see the residential schools shut down. But, there must be a way to ensure a child's safety when they are attending. And, no, I would NOT send my four-year-old off to school year round; only to see said child on the weekends. In my opinion, that child is too young to be separated from their parents.

I guess what all this means is, I'm taking the middle road here. Provide the tools necessary for a child to thrive outside of a residential school, but, keep them open in case you have a child who fell through the cracks and needs extra support. Above all, make sure that residential school is safe for students to attend! If that means, reporting abuse, do it. If that means, prosecuting adminsterators who look the other way, do it. If that means, freaking replacing every freaking worker in the school, do it. But, providing a safe/nuturing environment for that child should be paramount to anything else!
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Agreed. As I've said, I do think most little kids can benifit from attending a day program. That's one good thing about mainstreaming, that it created regional programs, so little kids wouldn't have to be sent away to school. But my point was, there are some kids who might benifit from the stabilty of living at school. Granted I do think that in those cases, maybe Deaf families near the School or program could serve as....not exactly foster parents but more like surrogate parents. Sort of like the way back in the old days, teens in the country would live with families in town to go to school.
 
And Banjo, yes I agree with you. I do think that they need to improve things...but you're only talking about the Deaf School dorms in your country. Maybe they need to do stuff like have a fundraising foundation to improve things. And yes, things used to be really bad in the old days.......but they were bad overall.....kids in Catholic schools used to get abused, parents used to be able to hit their kids with a belt or spoon....(and it wasn't child abuse!) The answer isn't to shut down the dorms.....but to IMPROVE things so that abusive stuff doesn't happen!
I know you guys don't have a lot of regional programs like we do in the US. There are some kids who are on par in mainstream classrooms yes.....but there are also dhh kids in the mainstream who end up in life skills (meaning for intellecctucally disabled and autistic kids) classes, where they don't even learn advanced academics.
 
deafdyke said:
On the other hand, the thing is that dorms don't nescessarily mean insistutionalized. Are kids who attend Philips Andover or other boarding schools "insistutionalized" b/c they live in the dorms? Nowadays, dorms are more like group homes,QUOTE]

For the bolded sentence, that certainly doesn't reassure me. I have three years of experience in that situation, and I would not wish it on my worst enemy.
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Banjo said:
I wouldn't put too much faith in the system. I was a day student at a residential school. I can tell you without hesitation that many residential students there didn't know their boundaries, manners, etc. Not to mention a large number of them had a habit of doing drugs, getting in trouble, etc.

Thankfully, I had a family who cared enough to learn sign language to communicate with me. I learned a lot from them. You don't learn much from living in a dorm since none of the students have any real life experiences to share. Not even the houseparents.

From what I have seen and heard, I wouldn't send a child to any of these schools. Ever.
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Very good point ! I raise at Deaf School since I was three years old. Deaf and Hearing Culture need to teaching us what real world is... I admitted that I was one of them lack of manners, boundaries and insult to the Hearing world until I realized that I jumped the wrong conculation. I looked in the past where I did learn from?
 
Bottesini said:
deafdyke said:
On the other hand, the thing is that dorms don't nescessarily mean insistutionalized. Are kids who attend Philips Andover or other boarding schools "insistutionalized" b/c they live in the dorms? Nowadays, dorms are more like group homes,QUOTE]

For the bolded sentence, that certainly doesn't reassure me. I have three years of experience in that situation, and I would not wish it on my worst enemy.
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It doesn't reassure me, either. Group homes can be one of the worst environments for children or adults to be in.
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deafdyke said:
And Banjo, yes I agree with you. I do think that they need to improve things...but you're only talking about the Deaf School dorms in your country. Maybe they need to do stuff like have a fundraising foundation to improve things. And yes, things used to be really bad in the old days.......but they were bad overall.....kids in Catholic schools used to get abused, parents used to be able to hit their kids with a belt or spoon....(and it wasn't child abuse!) The answer isn't to shut down the dorms.....but to IMPROVE things so that abusive stuff doesn't happen!
I know you guys don't have a lot of regional programs like we do in the US. There are some kids who are on par in mainstream classrooms yes.....but there are also dhh kids in the mainstream who end up in life skills (meaning for intellecctucally disabled and autistic kids) classes, where they don't even learn advanced academics.
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It's not just the schools for the deaf, but also the aboriginals and more across the country.
 
So many of you vote to close residential Deaf schools?
 
deafgal001 said:
Wirelessly posted

Its not just the teachers or other workers. Its other students you got look out for. But it is no different from any other dorms. Even nursing homes and rehabilitation center.they need watch out for abuse too. At several times people wanted to installed cameras in nursing homes and I disagree because I felt violating privacy was just as bad. Hire more people and someone will.more likely to get caught or wont bother trying because there's too many watchful eyes.
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Here's a few examples.

4-1 History

Jericho is one of the worst that I know of. It was basically a sex culture in that place.
 
As far I am concerned, there is far too much bureaucracy and not enough action.
 
Banjo said:
Here's a few examples.

4-1 History

Jericho is one of the worst that I know of. It was basically a sex culture in that place.
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Sir James Whitney School for the Deaf in Ontario

In 1991, the Ontario Ministry of Education and Training did a Review of Student Care. Based on the recommendations of the report, a number of policies and procedures were developed and put in place to ensure the safety of the students. Advocates for the students were assigned to all schools as an independent safeguard. A strict zero tolerance policy for any abuse was adopted.

Copied and pasted from the article...


No wonder where I work and in many of the programs I have associated with have this zero tolerance policy. I have seen it enforced by firing staff for not following procedures for simple incidents.

I wasnt there back in the old days and I am sorry that it all happened.
 
OK, so bad anology then. That was basicly the closest thing I could come up with. But yeah you guys are right......a lot of group homes are basicly the "new Willowbrooks"
I think the closest analogy might be akin to a cabin at a really good overnight summer camp.
You know.....a big group of kids are togehter, and learn and grow as a family, over the years under the supervision of a residental life counselor/dorm parent. While that sort of set up isn't as good as a traditional emotionally healthy two parent family, it can still be a really bonding living sitution. As a teen, (young for my age due to learning disabilties and having been mainstreamed to the max in a VERY snotty suburb.) I attended an over night summer camp for a month for about three years..(age range served was 8-16)..and the experiance was amazing. I still have a connection I can't describe with it. (and many other camp friends do too...finding my camp buddies on FB was like finding a long lost family member) It taught me about living with other people and about relationships and just all kinds of stuff. It was home....the people there were my family. Granted, not all dorm set ups are like that.....but they can be. The kids (in the dorms) are actively taught "independent living skills" and get a lot of exposure to the community. It is NOT like they are warehoused or a repeat of Willowbrook or the other state schools or totally and completely segregated from the outside world. As a matter of fact, at some state schools for the Deaf, there are independant living programs for teens!
I repeat, I really don't think most little kids should go off and live at school, unless there are really bad extenuating circumstances. Idealsticly, I think most little kids should attend a day program, until they are old enough to do overnights. Like maybe third or fourth grade. Exactly the same as for going off and doing overnight summer camp. I do agree with you guys.....when a friend told me that there were some four year olds as dorm kids at her res school, I was horrified. But all I was saying is that there might be SOME extunatating circumstances where it might be a good idea for a little kid to live at school. Say for example, they lived in the middle of no where (like say Alaska or in a very hyper rural area) in a state where special ed was really crappy, and there wasn't even a headstart/general early intervention program available. Or say they lived in Camden NJ (a city that has the most drive by shootings in the US) or a really bad First Nations/Aboringal/ Native American reservation. (ie really horrifying poverty like where kids are eating Lysol sandwiches and huffing gasoline) I do think that might really help get kids into a stable sitution, and away from REALLY horrifying poverty.
Or say.....the kids were living in a motel and the parents were really really struggling. Make sense? Living at school might provide stabilty for kids who may be at risk for really horrfiying effects of poverty, or who may live in very dangerous cities. Heck, a lot of HEARING inner city kids are trying to get out of the public schools and are trying to get out of dangerous neighborhoods. Yes, there are a lot of kids from poor families that simply fall into a particular income bracket. They have involved parents and all. But there are some families where a dhh kid might be better off growing up at a school....and just to add, it does seem like those types of families can and do exist in all income brackets..Need I mention those upper class families where the raising of kids is left to nannies? Or the drug addicted ones or otherwise dysfunctional families?.
That in turn might lessen the need for places like Cathedral Home for Children - Laramie, Wyoming or National Deaf Academy Homepage
I do think older kids can handle living away at school. NOT "Oh rah rah rah.....send them away Res schools rock!" But I do think it can be and is a viable option for some kids, even little kids.
Not to mention that some kids may have multiple disabilties (not nessarily severely multihandicapped/fragile...but say mild mental handicap or autism) which may not be able to be served well in even programs for the Dhh
 
Oceanbreeze said:
I generally agree with you, but, you're coming off a bit strong here.

I am not in favor of sterilization for the hell of it. I think it's abominable to suggest sterilizing someone just because they're deaf, but to say hearing people should be sterilized is going a bit far. There are those who wanted to sterilize ME because I'm disabled. Mom said Hell no! In restrospect, it may have been in MY best interest to have my uterus removed when I was in my teen years, but, NOT SOLELY because I couldn't walk. There's a huge difference between that, and, doing it to prevent problems for the child later in life.
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To tell you the truth, I am not in favor of involuntary sterilization at all. It is just I want to see that the people leave the deaf people and the others alone. Those people who came up with this stupid idea were already sick to start with. Ditto for the CI because of possible meningitis and death.

Whenever someone tossed the word sterilization so causually, that made me mad. I don't like it and I refuse to keep quiet. I want to show how it can be turned around so easily. You know, the golden rule. So yeah, I am fighting back. I am so sick of what is going on nowaday and in the past. The more I read about the history, the more I despite hearing people. Oralism in schools, blaming the kids for low reading levels, keeping the deaf people in menial jobs, oh yes... sterilization and now CI.

My late uncle with a mind of 2 or 3 years old was sterilized after a woman complained that he bothered her. I never could see him bothering anyone as he usually just sit there. I never heard him speak. I had a feeling that the woman was just making trouble. I guess my grandparents had him sterilized just to avoid trouble.
 
shel90 said:
Sir James Whitney School for the Deaf in Ontario

In 1991, the Ontario Ministry of Education and Training did a Review of Student Care. Based on the recommendations of the report, a number of policies and procedures were developed and put in place to ensure the safety of the students. Advocates for the students were assigned to all schools as an independent safeguard. A strict zero tolerance policy for any abuse was adopted.

Copied and pasted from the article...


No wonder where I work and in many of the programs I have associated with have this zero tolerance policy. I have seen it enforced by firing staff for not following procedures for simple incidents.

I wasnt there back in the old days and I am sorry that it all happened.
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Yeah too many favoristim staffs from program managers to make other staffs become very angry and false accuse on them. Oh gosh, I hate to work at the group homes for years.
 
deafdyke said:
OK, so bad anology then. That was basicly the closest thing I could come up with. But yeah you guys are right......a lot of group homes are basicly the "new Willowbrooks"
I think the closest analogy might be akin to a cabin at a really good overnight summer camp.
You know.....a big group of kids are togehter, and learn and grow as a family, over the years under the supervision of a residental life counselor/dorm parent. While that sort of set up isn't as good as a traditional emotionally healthy two parent family, it can still be a really bonding living sitution. As a teen, (young for my age due to learning disabilties and having been mainstreamed to the max in a VERY snotty suburb.) I attended an over night summer camp for a month for about three years..(age range served was 8-16)..and the experiance was amazing. I still have a connection I can't describe with it. (and many other camp friends do too...finding my camp buddies on FB was like finding a long lost family member) It taught me about living with other people and about relationships and just all kinds of stuff. It was home....the people there were my family. Granted, not all dorm set ups are like that.....but they can be. The kids (in the dorms) are actively taught "independent living skills" and get a lot of exposure to the community. It is NOT like they are warehoused or a repeat of Willowbrook or the other state schools or totally and completely segregated from the outside world. As a matter of fact, at some state schools for the Deaf, there are independant living programs for teens!
I repeat, I really don't think most little kids should go off and live at school, unless there are really bad extenuating circumstances. Idealsticly, I think most little kids should attend a day program, until they are old enough to do overnights. Like maybe third or fourth grade. Exactly the same as for going off and doing overnight summer camp. I do agree with you guys.....when a friend told me that there were some four year olds as dorm kids at her res school, I was horrified. But all I was saying is that there might be SOME extunatating circumstances where it might be a good idea for a little kid to live at school. Say for example, they lived in the middle of no where (like say Alaska or in a very hyper rural area) in a state where special ed was really crappy, and there wasn't even a headstart/general early intervention program available. Or say they lived in Camden NJ (a city that has the most drive by shootings in the US) or a really bad First Nations/Aboringal/ Native American reservation. (ie really horrifying poverty like where kids are eating Lysol sandwiches and huffing gasoline) I do think that might really help get kids into a stable sitution, and away from REALLY horrifying poverty.
Or say.....the kids were living in a motel and the parents were really really struggling. Make sense? Living at school might provide stabilty for kids who may be at risk for really horrfiying effects of poverty, or who may live in very dangerous cities. Heck, a lot of HEARING inner city kids are trying to get out of the public schools and are trying to get out of dangerous neighborhoods. Yes, there are a lot of kids from poor families that simply fall into a particular income bracket. They have involved parents and all. But there are some families where a dhh kid might be better off growing up at a school....and just to add, it does seem like those types of families can and do exist in all income brackets..Need I mention those upper class families where the raising of kids is left to nannies? Or the drug addicted ones or otherwise dysfunctional families?.
That in turn might lessen the need for places like Cathedral Home for Children - Laramie, Wyoming or National Deaf Academy Homepage
I do think older kids can handle living away at school. NOT "Oh rah rah rah.....send them away Res schools rock!" But I do think it can be and is a viable option for some kids, even little kids.
Not to mention that some kids may have multiple disabilties (not nessarily severely multihandicapped/fragile...but say mild mental handicap or autism) which may not be able to be served well in even programs for the Dhh
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It's great that you had a great camp experience. I had the opposite experience. I was left out, excluded, teased and horribly bullied. I felt alone and cried myself to sleep (this was about 7th grade). Everyday when we had to pair up, I knew no one would ever be my partner. I couldn't wait to return home to my alcoholic mom and step father who beat her.

And third grade? REALLY? My daughter is turning 8 and it would absolutely break her heart to be left alone. She still cuddles up to us when we are on the couch and hugs and kisses us all the time. Have you ever studied child development? Do you realize how young that really is? How important their parent are and how permanent and awful it would be to not have their emotional needs met?
 
Deafdyke, am I wrong that you still live at home with your wealthy family? When they die, will you be able to go to work and live on your own , or will you possibly end up in group home living?

Do you even have any idea of what the nightmares you are bringing back to a lot of us every time you start up with this, "Oh let's tell deaf kids what a paradise dorms and group home living"are?
 
So...the fact that dorms have been good for many kids doesn't matter?
 
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