Should ASL be reserve to culturally Deaf people only?

AlleyCat said:
I spent an entire thread discussing how I learned/developed my oral skills. I got fought against by the hearing parents in that "oh well, that's just not how we do it today." Fine. Things change. I totally get that. But then why do we even want to discuss how we developed our oral skills when that's the response we get? The hearing parents on here are from an entirely different generation than the majority of posters on this board. This is the problem I have with those hearing parents thumbing their noses at us. They don't identify with how we did things back then, and we have a hard time identifying with how they develop oral skills (excuse me, spoken language) today.
Click to expand...

In simpler words...


the thinking is that "One CANNOT develop oral skills without a CI! "

That is an insult.
 
shel90 said:
In simpler words...


the thinking is that "One CANNOT develop oral skills without a CI! "

That is an insult.
Click to expand...

No one says that. What we are saying is that profoundly deaf kids can not develop the ability to LISTEN and understand spoken language without lipreading without CIs.
 
Actually, if you listen careful, none of us really hated it... it's their (both deaf and teachers/therapists/etc.) reasons behind it you need to look into.
Click to expand...
Agreed!!!
It's more the " Your child needs to be healthy and normal" and not "depend" on "crutches" like speechreading or ASL. Many, if not most of us are quite happy we can hear and talk.... It's just the hyperfocus, the "My Fair Lady"esque focu
There is one problem. People here can tell you EXACTLY how to gain ASL fluency. Go to a deaf school, parents learn sign, be part of the deaf community, and so on. People can even suggest exact classes! However, when oral skills come up, people keep their mouths shut on how exactly they could develop. I suspect people are afraid of being attacked or they are afraid that if they make a suggestion, parents will take it too seriously and "hyperfocus" on their speech..
Click to expand...
You're right. Because that is exactly what happens......Unfortunatly there is a really major hyperfocus on a therapy "gotta function at "normal" levels and everything and everything else is a "crutch" attitude in oral only.
If they got rid of that attitude Deaf people would be a lot more open to oral skill development.
 
shel90 said:
In simpler words...


the thinking is that "One CANNOT develop oral skills without a CI! "

That is an insult.
Click to expand...

Or, when one does, they can function as hearing; and they don't need ASL or anything but minimal accomodations. Not only is it an insult, it's an injustice.
 
shel90 said:
In simpler words...


the thinking is that "One CANNOT develop oral skills without a CI! "

That is an insult.
Click to expand...

No one is saying those simpler words ("One CANNOT develop oral skills without a CI! ") nor are hearing people 'thumbing their noses' at how people learned oral skills in the past.

Several of those who were unhappy with what they call "oral" upbringings (although most don't seem to have attended "oral schools", so I'm not seeing a lot of consistency in the therapies used) described methods of learning oral skills that they regret or found intolerable. And many of the hearing parents on this forum have not only acknowledged how difficult it must have been but have made statements to the effect that they -- we -- don't intend to make those same mistakes that you've identified with our children. I've said it before to specific individuals who have shared, but I'll say again to all of you: thank you for sharing your experiences. I hear you, and your experiences and those of the many deaf and HOH I've encountered in real life and other forums have shaped my daughter's present experience.
 
shel90 said:
In simpler words...

the thinking is that "One CANNOT develop oral skills without a CI! "

That is an insult.
Click to expand...
There's some truth to it. Since I was one of them that was able to develop some oral skills without the CI.

However, I could also see the difference since I got the CI particularly with the low-frequency sounds. For instance, I'm saying the "s" and "h" sounds more regularly than I used to. I could also see my voice coming up from my chest area a little more and perhaps it's also a little less nasal than it used to be.
 
faire_jour said:
My daughter has had extensive speech discrimination, I am well aware of what she hears and understands.

She does have access to ASL, as I told you before. She has ASL tutoring and preteaching.
Click to expand...

But she is still in an oral classroom. If the oral classroom addressed her needs, she would not need ASL tutoring and preteaching.

Has had extensive speech discrimination? She no longer has it?
 
faire_jour said:
Yes. It is called Parent Child Therapy. One of us is required to be there.
Click to expand...

Parent Child therapy is EI. Not once she begins elelmentary school. So, every day, you are present at her school to participate in her speech therapy? I'm finding this a bit difficult to swallow.
 
shel90 said:
I am happy to have oral skills. You have seen me use them in NYC.

However, I am NOT happy to being restricted to the oral-only method.
Click to expand...

And one does not have to be restricted to an oral only environment in order to develop speech skills. People seem to think that is necessary.
 
faire_jour said:
She knows she is deaf, she is proud to be Deaf. She loves ASL and speaking. She knows that Mom and Dad are hearing, but she is deaf and lots of people are deaf. We encourage her to express herself and her needs.....we just keep working on it.
Click to expand...

Do you take the time to think about the unspoken messages you give her with your actions, or what you say in front of her to others?
 
HHIssues said:
There's some truth to it. Since I was one of them that was able to develop some oral skills without the CI.

However, I could also see the difference since I got the CI particularly with the low-frequency sounds. For instance, I'm saying the "s" and "h" sounds more regularly than I used to. I could also see my voice coming up from my chest area a little more and perhaps it's also a little less nasal than it used to be.
Click to expand...

No, my speech isnt PERFECT but at least 90% of hearing people can understand me without too many problems. However, that's not the issue...the issue is having access to the educational setting. Is it ok for a deaf child to have less access to their educational environment than their hearing counterparts?
 
Or, when one does, they can function as hearing; and they don't need ASL or anything but minimal accomodations.
Click to expand...
Yes. That does seem to be the dream of a lot of parents who chose oral only. But the question is, how often does that actually happen? Yes, it happens SOMETIMES. There are kids who are taking honors and AP classes (and getting As) with just FM, notetaker and preferential seating....That's awesome for them, but does it represent the majority of orally trained kids?
And one does not have to be restricted to an oral only environment in order to develop speech skills.
Click to expand...
Agreed!!!!! Yes, some deaf schools and programs don't have the best resources to enable their students to become fluent or decently orally skilled (ie they have oral skills beyond "survival speech) But many do. If the speech therapy sucks.....GOOD! Hunt down other resources.....Heck, rick said that he had to go private with speech therapy for his daughter!
 
deafdyke said:
Yes. That does seem to be the dream of a lot of parents who chose oral only. But the question is, how often does that actually happen? Yes, it happens SOMETIMES. There are kids who are taking honors and AP classes (and getting As) with just FM, notetaker and preferential seating....That's awesome for them, but does it represent the majority of orally trained kids?
Agreed!!!!! Yes, some deaf schools and programs don't have the best resources to enable their students to become fluent or decently orally skilled (ie they have oral skills beyond "survival speech) But many do. If the speech therapy sucks.....GOOD! Hunt down other resources.....Heck, rick said that he had to go private with speech therapy for his daughter!
Click to expand...

Notetaker was unheard of for me when I was in school. I had to take my own notes. They put alot of things on board... no wonder I felt I never pay attention to the teachers.
 
shel90 said:
No, my speech isnt PERFECT but at least 90% of hearing people can understand me without too many problems. However, that's not the issue...the issue is having access to the educational setting. Is it ok for a deaf child to have less access to their educational environment than their hearing counterparts?
Click to expand...

I know you directed this to HHI, but, I'd like to answer...

No. A deaf student in the mainstream classroom often misses a lot of peripheral communication. Even a child with the CI is going to miss SOME things unless they have accomodations. The oralists tout that the CI gives the deaf the ability to hear. OK, but, I have a question... If this were 100% true in every situation, why then the need for things like CART and the FM system that is often used in the educational setting?
 
deafgal001 said:
Notetaker was unheard of for me when I was in school. I had to take my own notes. They put alot of things on board... no wonder I felt I never pay attention to the teachers.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to recall, but, I believe that was the same when I was in school.
 
shel90 said:
No, my speech isnt PERFECT but at least 90% of hearing people can understand me without too many problems. However, that's not the issue...the issue is having access to the educational setting. Is it ok for a deaf child to have less access to their educational environment than their hearing counterparts?
Click to expand...
Sure, if necessary, the child could have accommodations to make it easier for them to follow the discussion in the classroom.

However, I was actually responding to the following post:

In simpler words...

the thinking is that "One CANNOT develop oral skills without a CI! "

That is an insult.
Click to expand...
 
deafgal001 said:
Notetaker was unheard of for me when I was in school. I had to take my own notes. They put alot of things on board... no wonder I felt I never pay attention to the teachers.
Click to expand...
I had notetakers when I went to school, starting at the junior high level.

Yes, if we also had teachers that wrote alot on the board, that was a plus. Fortunately some teachers were just that way naturally regardless of whether or not they had a deaf child in the classroom.
 
The first time I've heard of notetaker was when I went to college. But it was a joke because no one volunteered. I still ended up taking my own notes and study for myself. Acccounting was the easiest to self study.
 
Back
Top