Putting your deaf children in which schools...and why?

[KristinaB]

Wirelessly posted

Not to gain real fluency. you don't gain full, fluent language from one hour a week lessons. it takes a normal hearing child i believe, around 5 years to be fluent in their native language, and they are exposed to it all day every day

Who said one hour a week? I know children who took French or German for 5 hours weekly and then with their homework, were fluent after 1 school year.

My father tutored a high school student in German and the guy was ready to move overseas after 1 year. He did and never had a problem. My father was a German, English and Latin professor.

 

[KristinaB]

Wirelessly posted



Usually does?? doesn't the average deaf student leaving high school have a 4th grade reading level? that's not ok with me.

I don't think that's the case 100% of the time. I know it's what used to be, but not as bad anymore I believe.

 

[natty_4ever]

I don't think that's the case 100% of the time. I know it's what used to be, but not as bad anymore I believe.

Yeah, I don't think it's that low now either. Regardless, I don't trust averages because there's always outliers that can skew the end result. All the Deaf I know can read fairly well. Maybe not all can read Shakespeare, but they do just fine anyway.

 

[deafdyke]

Contacts at and policy at AGBell (and support services at events) have only supported and encouraged my family's use of ASL and our choice in educating Li-Li bilingually. I don't have a long history, but in 3 years, I've NEVER once encountered anyone representing AGB who is anti-ASL, overtly or otherwise.

I do admit that they're no longer actively demonizing ASL. Which is good. I know too that it's actually quite common to see ASL 'terps at AG Bell conferences.
But still.......they seem to view ASL not as "Oh your kid can be BILINGAL and function both with and without their hearing aids/CIs" but rather as an afterthought.

Deaf children are not hearing children, they do not learn spoken language without intervention. the two aren't comparable. a deaf child learning spoken language needs a language rich enviroment and professionals working with them.

Sigh......Nope. An aided/CI'd child is not a deaf kid. They are functionally hoh. Many hoh kids picked up spoken language in the past with only HeadStart/generic special needs speech programs.

but you also can't pretend that an hour a week of pullout speech therapy will get the same results as an oral approach with targeted, high quailty services.

Did you know that Govenor Baxter School for the Deaf offers a program where preschool kids learn ASL in the morning and spoken English in the afternoon?

 

[shel90]

I have met and seen deaf children learn both fluently. I dont support the use of only one or the other. I support the use for both for all deaf children and I have faith that the children will thrive with having exposure to both. I dont understand why that's a problem for some people.

 

[faire_jour]

I have met and seen deaf children learn both fluently. I dont support the use of only one or the other. I support the use for both for all deaf children and I have faith that the children will thrive with having exposure to both. I dont understand why that's a problem for some people.

Fine, then would you be ok with a school that has spoken language as the language of instruction with 1-3 hours a week of pull out ASL? The kids are still being exposed to both. It is just reversed.

 

[natty_4ever]

Fine, then would you be ok with a school that has spoken language as the language of instruction with 1-3 hours a week of pull out ASL? The kids are still being exposed to both. It is just reversed.

I would personally prefer what deafdyke mentioned over what you just said. Spoken and ASL, split halfway during a school day.

Look, I'm what you would consider an oral success. I speak very well and nobody has ever known I'm deaf without me telling them so. But I would trade what I had in a mainstream oral environment for the social ease and total understanding of what was happening among my peers in an ASL dominant (or even what deafdyke mentioned) environment. Instead of following a conversation easily, I had to fake my way through them for a very, very long time.

It is extremely difficult, and while speech is a bonus, it isn't what people should be concerned about. Education should be everyone's main concern, and the best way to receive it is according to each child. But, I believe that oral training tied to education is going to be a long, hard journey for a deaf child, no matter what accomodations they have. Even for a HOH child, it is difficult. I have captioning right now in college, and math is so hard to follow orally WITH captioning that I'm considering transferring to Gallaudet. Being raised in an oral environment, I thought it was normal, until I stumbled upon people who preferred to sign most of the time, and then I felt so much more comfortable and happy. I wasn't unhappy before, but looking back on it, I wish I had more exposure to ASL in school.

 

[Frisky Feline]

I don't know if it affects any children who are placed in the speech therapy for a long of period may have feeling so stressedly worn out until they discover sign lanague and have ASL to be stress free at all times.

I was in speech therapy a lot and they put me under lots of pressures by practicing a lot. It wasn't fun for me.

 

[faire_jour]

I would personally prefer what deafdyke mentioned over what you just said. Spoken and ASL, split halfway during a school day.
Look, I'm what you would consider an oral success. I speak very well and nobody has ever known I'm deaf without me telling them so. But I would trade what I had in a mainstream oral environment for the social ease and total understanding of what was happening among my peers in an ASL dominant (or even what deafdyke mentioned) environment. Instead of following a conversation easily, I had to fake my way through them for a very, very long time.

It is extremely difficult, and while speech is a bonus, it isn't what people should be concerned about. Education should be everyone's main concern, and the best way to receive it is according to each child. But, I believe that oral training tied to education is going to be a long, hard journey for a deaf child, no matter what accomodations they have. Even for a HOH child, it is difficult. I have captioning right now in college, and math is so hard to follow orally WITH captioning that I'm considering transferring to Gallaudet. Being raised in an oral environment, I thought it was normal, until I stumbled upon people who preferred to sign most of the time, and then I felt so much more comfortable and happy. I wasn't unhappy before, but looking back on it, I wish I had more exposure to ASL in school.

I agree, but that is not what happens in most Deaf schools.

The only thing I would say is that deaf kids today can hear. The days of lipreading and nodding and pretending to hear are gone.

 

[shel90]

I don't know if it affects any children who are placed in the speech therapy for a long of period may have feeling so stressedly worn out until they discover sign lanague and have ASL to be stress free at all times.

I was in speech therapy a lot and they put me under lots of pressures by practicing a lot. It wasn't fun for me.

I think speech therapy shouldnt be an all day thing. However, I agree with you about ASL ..more natural and deaf children should have that right in the educational setting.

 

[shel90]

I would personally prefer what deafdyke mentioned over what you just said. Spoken and ASL, split halfway during a school day.

Look, I'm what you would consider an oral success. I speak very well and nobody has ever known I'm deaf without me telling them so. But I would trade what I had in a mainstream oral environment for the social ease and total understanding of what was happening among my peers in an ASL dominant (or even what deafdyke mentioned) environment. Instead of following a conversation easily, I had to fake my way through them for a very, very long time.

It is extremely difficult, and while speech is a bonus, it isn't what people should be concerned about. Education should be everyone's main concern, and the best way to receive it is according to each child. But, I believe that oral training tied to education is going to be a long, hard journey for a deaf child, no matter what accomodations they have. Even for a HOH child, it is difficult. I have captioning right now in college, and math is so hard to follow orally WITH captioning that I'm considering transferring to Gallaudet. Being raised in an oral environment, I thought it was normal, until I stumbled upon people who preferred to sign most of the time, and then I felt so much more comfortable and happy. I wasn't unhappy before, but looking back on it, I wish I had more exposure to ASL in school.

I totally agree with you on all counts.

 

[shel90]

I agree, but that is not what happens in most Deaf schools.

The only thing I would say is that deaf kids today can hear. The days of lipreading and nodding and pretending to hear are gone.

If they can hear, why the intervention then? You say one thing but then you say another. Which is it?

 

[faire_jour]

If they can hear, why the intervention then? You say one thing but then you say another. Which is it?

They can hear but are not hearing. They haven't always heard and they don't hear perfectly. BUT the vast majority of CI kids can hear and discriminate all sounds of speech.

 

[faire_jour]

I totally agree with you on all counts.

So you are ok with spoken language being the language of instruction for half days?

 

[shel90]

So you are ok with spoken language being the language of instruction for half days?

As long as they are both treated with equal respect. That one isnt superior to the other.

 

[faire_jour]

As long as they are both treated with equal respect. That one isnt superior to the other.

No one ever suggested that....you seem to get prickely any time spoken language is mentioned, even if it is conjunction with ASL.

 

[shel90]

No one ever suggested that....you seem to get prickely any time spoken language is mentioned, even if it is conjunction with ASL.

And why do you think that is? I dont trust many hearing people when it comes to respecting both languages equally. Too often it is always ASL that gets on the back burner.

I dont think I need to repeat myself why I feel so strongly against oral-only and against audist views.

 

[Bottesini]

No one ever suggested that....you seem to get prickely any time spoken language is mentioned, even if it is conjunction with ASL.

Shel is always consistent in advocating that both are taught!

 

[shel90]

Shel is always consistent in advocating that both are taught!

Thank you..I am on a merry-go-round again so time to get off.

 

[faire_jour]

Shel is always consistent in advocating that both are taught!

But has never given any sort of picture of how that should be done. I want to know how a voice off ASL-English bi-bi program an also provide the services needed for a child to learn fluent spoken language.