I am against oralism because....

When I read about this debate, I think of my Greek aunts who came to the US at an age where learning a new language is a much greater challenge than for kids. They learned basic things; they could do their shopping, pay their bills, etc. But their social lives were in the Greek community. It really went far beyond the ability to speak English or not - it was also about common experience and challenges, a real understanding. (Just as I can talk about a typical day here in Istanbul but unless you've lived here, you only get a superficial idea of what it is like.) Anyone outside that community who really wants to understand them will have to make the effort. Some might, some might not; so be it.

I can only imagine what my aunts' lives would have been like if they had been forced to speak English, slapped every time they uttered a word of Greek. They might have learned more English and been more "functional" in a way but they would also have been isolated from those people who could truly and deeply understand them.

And I think, "what would be the motive for forcing them to speak only English?" Several possible answers come to mind:

1. A belief that English is somehow superior.

It's surprising how much you run accross the attitude that one language is 'better' than another.

2. The desire of the majority to interact on their own terms.

It is frustrating to want to communicate with someone whom you can't understand and who doesn't understand you. It's such a natural desire. But if you really want to communicate, it's a two-way street; that's true even for people who speak your own language, and how often people forget even that. I think many hearing people assume that being a deaf American/Turk/whatever is just like being a hearing American/Turk/whatever, and don't really think about how profoundly different one's experience is. Just as many people think that "respect for other cultures" as something interesting in a touristic sort of way but never consider how stuck they are in their own cultural way of viewing the world and other people. They just assume that what they know is "the right way."

2. a belief (even if 'well-intended') that if they could only be "like us" their lives would
be of higher quality.

It's so easy to project your (perceived) needs on another and then say "oh how sad, they don't have that." Heck, I've had people express disbelief, even concern, that I've never owned a television set, and argue why I should have one. They go on and on about what I'm missing, without thinking about what they are missing by focusing so much time a day on the TV.

My aunts were quite happy. They had a decent income, close friends, a community who accepted them and loved them. All the things a human needs to be happy. As well as the ability to function quite well in American society, even if not in the same way as Americans. Yes, they would have felt out of place in many areas. But they definitely had places where they felt perfectly at home. So when one feels inclined to pity another because they don't function in the way they do, they need to stop and consider what they also don't have and the view of the world that they themselves have never experienced.

Sooo.. (wrapping it up here):

I'm all for learning to deal in a foreign language, it's clearly helpful. But everyone's ability is different, and everyone's need and desire is different too. As long as one can cope and is happy in this life, who's to judge how one copes or what makes him happy? It seems to me that having a community, having real communication with people who understand you is much more important. The eagerness of deaf kids to pick up sign language, mentioned above, seems to be very clear evidence of that need.

Our country feels shame about the times when Native American kids were punished for speaking their languages. To deprive kids of free communication when they're growing up seems nothing less than cruel.


:gpost: This is a very thought provoking post.

I remember sharing my oral upbringing with a group of American Indians (many of them don't like being called Native Americans in much the same way we dont' like being called hearing impaired) and they said that their parents' schools were very similar to the oral school.
 
Great posts here..I dont need to state my reasons for being against oralism. There are too many threads with my reasons. :)
 
:gpost: This is a very thought provoking post.

I remember sharing my oral upbringing with a group of American Indians (many of them don't like being called Native Americans in much the same way we dont' like being called hearing impaired) and they said that their parents' schools were very similar to the oral school.

Unfortunately, it is all about ethnocentricsm. Manifest Destiny is alive and well.
 
I myself prefer Asl, its a very beautiful language and you can use it in places you cant use speech, talk, voices, etc.
 
I have nothing against hearies having their opinions on this, so be it, but this is about our (deaf peoples) methods of communication and sign languages.
 
I personally think oral Deaf children should have more options to supplement their skills (ASL, cued speech, etc). I am totally against oral only approach.

I was educated oral only. Worst thing that ever happened to me. I wont go into the many reasons why, but it was very oppressive.
 
I have nothing against hearies having their opinions on this, so be it, but this is about our (deaf peoples) methods of communication and sign languages.

Uh, hearing people communicate with ASL, too.
 
Uh, hearing people communicate with ASL, too.

Unfortunately, only some of hearing people know ASL. It would be really nice if all hearing people do know ASL, kind of like Martha's Vineyard in bygone days.
 
Unfortunately, only some of hearing people know ASL. It would be really nice if all hearing people do know ASL, kind of like Martha's Vineyard in bygone days.

Couldn't agree with you more on that. I was referring to the comment about hearies not having any business commenting on this thread just because they aren't deaf. Not all deaf use ASL either, unfortunately. And that is the result of oralism, which all hearies do not support.
 
Unfortunately, only some of hearing people know ASL. It would be really nice if all hearing people do know ASL, kind of like Martha's Vineyard in bygone days.

Hearing people using Asl to communicate with other hearing people for reasons other then to accomidate some kind of disability, learning asl in a classroom, or for the understanding of a deaf person who is with them are mocking the deaf.
 
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Where in that video or in other NAD materials does it say hearing people can't use ASL except for the purposes you've listed? Hearing people using ASL with other hearing people can encourage ASL to spread and be known about by more people.
 
Hearing people using Asl to communicate with other hearing people for reasons other then to accomidate some kind of disability, learning asl in a classroom, or for the understanding of a deaf person who is with them are mocking the deaf.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You seem to forget that the one person that was most influential in having ASL recognized as a complete and total language, and thereby elevating it to the status it has today was hearing.

So, Stokoe was mocking the Deaf?

What about hearing individuals with apraxia, or CPD, or disorders that result in muteness? They aren't permitted to utilize ASL for communication? They are mocking the Deaf?

Given the fact that you are just learning the language, you make some incredibly naive statements.
 
Where in that video or in other NAD materials does it say hearing people can't use ASL except for the purposes you've listed? Hearing people using ASL with other hearing people can encourage ASL to spread and be known about by more people.

Exactly!!! The whole point is to get more hearing individuals to be fluent in ASL, not fewer! Its the most effective way to bridge the communication gap, and to provide for effective education of deaf students.

To say that hearing people must not use ASL is the same as saying all deaf people must speak. Its oralism in reverse.

And, I find it particularly odd that this attitude would come from someone who has jsut begun to learn the language.
 
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You seem to forget that the one person that was most influential in having ASL recognized as a complete and total language, and thereby elevating it to the status it has today was hearing.

So, Stokoe was mocking the Deaf?

What about hearing individuals with apraxia, or CPD, or disorders that result in muteness? They aren't permitted to utilize ASL for communication? They are mocking the Deaf?

Given the fact that you are just learning the language, you make some incredibly naive statements.

:topic:
 
Great posts here..I dont need to state my reasons for being against oralism. There are too many threads with my reasons. :)

Yep, I agree, but I don't think hearing people could ever truly understand the reasons for why some deaf people are against oralism. They do not have the same experiences we do as far as oralism goes, nor could they ever.
 
Alexander Graham Bell introduced Oralism into the deaf community not Dr. William C. Stokoe, Jr.

Alexander Graham Bell Association for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing

Not only do you not know your history, you are confusing what is being said. I said Stokoe is the researcher that proved ASL was a complete and total language in and of itself, and he was hearing. I pointed that out because you seem to have such a problem with hearies giving an opinion on the topic.

I did not say that Stokoe had anything to do with oralism. Quite the opposite. Please go back and reread the post.
 
Yep, I agree, but I don't think hearing people could ever truly understand the reasons for why some deaf people are against oralism. They do not have the same experiences we do as far as oralism goes, nor could they ever.

You are very naive. What makes you think that deaf people are the only ones that oppose oralism?
 
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