HDTV Captioning: What You Should Know

Banjo · 06-19-2007, 02:12 AM

I recently posted lengthy column on my blog. It’s about the captioning issues found on HDTV, DVD and high definition video formats. I feel that it's a great deal of importance that people especially the deaf and hard of hearing to become more informed when it come to this subject.

I just thought I’d make my contribution and hope that people will find the information useful and helpful.

Banjo's World: HDTV Captioning: What You Should Know

Silentwolfdog · 06-19-2007, 04:27 AM

Thank you! Finally! I understand a little better now.

I do want SDH/CC to move around as long as they stay on the bottom of the screen. How often would you see one that have it goes on the top of the screen? I hated that because sometime it would block the face and I missed out their facial expression.

Also, is there any way you can move SDH/CC to the black part of the screen instead of on the picture itself? That does not really bother me as long as they don't move it away from the bottom of the picture too much.

I remember one movie where they had CC on the top of the picture the whole time and I could not see faces of characters very well. It nearly drove me to insane.

Capmeister · 06-19-2007, 09:46 AM

Excellently done! Thank you!

Banjo · 06-19-2007, 01:03 PM

Thanks. :-)

deafclimber · 06-19-2007, 01:25 PM

well done, banjo.

i hope deaf community understands now after reading your blog.

again well done !

CCfan · 06-19-2007, 06:26 PM

Banjo,

You talked about everything perfectly!

Thank you very much for appreciate about it! *clapping hands*

sequoias · 06-19-2007, 06:41 PM

Banjo, that's very informative and thanks for sharing!

rhr · 06-19-2007, 10:53 PM

Thank you! I know SDH and Subtitle don't have soild background, I am can't see... I want CC or Subtitle with Soild background or SDH with soild background, I will be happy!

06-20-2007, 08:09 AM

Good info. That's why I don't plan to get blu-ray/hd-dvd because HDMI won't support CC. It's pointless to get it. I like to wait till almost all studios use SDH.

Foxrac · 06-20-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo

Good info. That's why I don't plan to get blu-ray/hd-dvd because HDMI won't support CC. It's pointless to get it. I like to wait till almost all studios use SDH.

All BD movies are SDH supported, also I believe it was from BDA policy.

06-20-2007, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

All BD movies are SDH supported, also I believe it was from BDA policy.

What's about HD-DVD?

Foxrac · 06-20-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo

What's about HD-DVD?

I dunno about HD-DVD...

Just call DVD Forum for more info but I dislike HD-DVD.

BD for all way...

Foxrac · 06-21-2007, 12:37 PM

Banjo, one of member don't believe you or me.

I had tested with playback for DVD movies on PS3 via HDMI cable and Xbox 360 via component cable then I set on TV setting for show CC but won't show up on my HDTV when use on component cable or HDMI, also it does work on composite cable or S-Video.

Digital CC isn't supported on DVD player or other video source device, only can use for broadcasting the tv shows via over the air, such as HD antanna to catch shows in ATSC or HD, even regular cable if using tv shows in ATSC.

PowerON · 06-21-2007, 01:14 PM

CC support go direct to HDTV

Cable - YES
S-Video - YES
Composite Video - YES
DVI - NO
HDMI - NO
Component Video - NO

rhr · 06-21-2007, 01:46 PM

you said "Component Video - NO"
it is YES! for only 480i

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

CC support go direct to HDTV

Cable - YES
S-Video - YES
Composite Video - YES
DVI - NO
HDMI - NO
Component Video - NO

peternagy · 06-21-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowerON

CC support go direct to HDTV

Cable - YES
S-Video - YES
Composite Video - YES
DVI - NO
HDMI - NO
Component Video - NO

That depends how you look at it. If Cable or Satellite Box has DVI or HDMI out, digital CC can be displayed by external source if the boxes support digital CC. I have noticed lately that newer cable or satellite boxes output digital CC via DVI and HDMI. TVs do not have to have built-in digital CC decoder if external boxes support digital CC.

I have a MCE 2005 Home Theater PC (HTPC) with two HD tuner cards (using OTA antenna only) and it outputs digital CC very nicely to my 60" Sony LCD rear projection TV via DVI cable.

Remember digital CC is very different than analog CC.

Nice report, Banjo.

Cheers,
Peter

PowerON · 06-21-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhr

you said "Component Video - NO"
it is YES! for only 480i

Component Video does not work on my previous HDTV Westinghouse and recently brand new Philips HDTV

PowerON · 06-21-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peternagy

That depends how you look at it. If Cable or Satellite Box has DVI or HDMI out, digital CC can be displayed by external source if the boxes support digital CC. I have noticed lately that newer cable or satellite boxes output digital CC via DVI and HDMI. TVs do not have to have built-in digital CC decoder if external boxes support digital CC.

I have a MCE 2005 Home Theater PC (HTPC) with two HD tuner cards (using OTA antenna only) and it outputs digital CC very nicely to my 60" Sony LCD rear projection TV via DVI cable.

Remember digital CC is very different than analog CC.

Nice report, Banjo.

Cheers,
Peter

I aware of different between digital and analog, both work fine and show different style that allow to be custom on HDTV or SDTV with ATSC.

deafclimber · 06-21-2007, 03:05 PM

I have HDMI connected from comcast cable to hdtv and cc does work if you turn CC on in cable box's menu. also before i replaced component with HDMI, CC did work just fine with component on between cable box and hdtv.

sorry it is off topic.

Foxrac · 06-21-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhr

you said "Component Video - NO"
it is YES! for only 480i

No, component is progressive scan, that's 480p.

I can't believe that you are really crazy.

CC isn't work on my HDTV via component.

You CAN'T change to 480i via PS3 with HDMI, only from 480p to 1080p.

PowerON · 06-21-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafclimber

I have HDMI connected from comcast cable to hdtv and cc does work if you turn CC on in cable box's menu. also before i replaced component with HDMI, CC did work just fine with component on between cable box and hdtv.

sorry it is off topic.

unfortunately, not for DVD, BR or HD-DVD

ideafspy · 06-21-2007, 03:50 PM

My television is HD and it doesn't work caption unless I have another device like Dish Network has support caption inside machine.

I like what Dishnetwork give me my prefer caption. It looks like real live typing, is there a box of roach is doing typing? heh

Anyway.. I am little concerns for our future about HD is begin grow and we have to pay extra for using device to make caption clear and without that caption will gabble..

HD's caption default is so SMALL! I have to set that machine to make large font that I can relax my eyes and not like this

and ask my wife to borrow her glass..

peternagy · 06-21-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

No, component is progressive scan, that's 480p.

I can't believe that you are really crazy.

CC isn't work on my HDTV via component.

You CAN'T change to 480i via PS3 with HDMI, only from 480p to 1080p.

RHR is correct. Component can either be 480i and 480p. For example, in order to watch analog CC from DVD player using component cables, you have to set the component output of DVD player to non-progressive (interlace) via on-screen Menu setup screen of DVD player. At least that's how my DVD player works.

My DVD player also has DVI output and like you said, DVD player cannot output CC (analog or digital) via DVI cable because DVI only supports higher than 480p or DVD player simply don't support it. Hopefully (I doubt it) in the future there will be DVD player (like cable or satellite boxes) supporting CC for 480p or greater but I don't think it's going to happen because SDH will be used instead.

Peter

ideafspy · 06-21-2007, 06:44 PM

When I read your blog about those information and was like WOW. It plently benefit for us and understand that new technology and able to use it.

I am going to copy those information and written from you.

Well done!

Foxrac · 06-21-2007, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peternagy

RHR is correct. Component can either be 480i and 480p. For example, in order to watch analog CC from DVD player using component cables, you have to set the component output of DVD player to non-progressive (interlace) via on-screen Menu setup screen of DVD player. At least that's how my DVD player works.

My DVD player also has DVI output and like you said, DVD player cannot output CC (analog or digital) via DVI cable because DVI only supports higher than 480p or DVD player simply don't support it. Hopefully (I doubt it) in the future there will be DVD player (like cable or satellite boxes) supporting CC for 480p or greater but I don't think it's going to happen because SDH will be used instead.

Peter

It's still not work on my HDTV, still not work...

On Xbox 360, you can't change to 480i when watch DVD playback or play games because component in their system is remain to be 480p to 1080p, up to 1080i for most HDTV set. You only need mini switch to TV instread of HDTV to get 480i but wouldn't catch CC on display, though, until you use composite cable or S-Video to catch CC.

I'm seriously, CC isn't work via component cable on my HDTV.

FYI, my HDTV support digital CC via over the air on antenna when watch in ATSC or HD shows

peternagy · 06-21-2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

It's still not work on my HDTV, still not work...

On Xbox 360, you can't change to 480i when watch DVD playback or play games because component in their system is remain to be 480p to 1080p, up to 1080i for most HDTV set. You only need mini switch to TV instread of HDTV to get 480i but wouldn't catch CC on display, though, until you use composite cable or S-Video to catch CC.

I'm seriously, CC isn't work via component cable on my HDTV.

FYI, my HDTV support digital CC via over the air on antenna when watch in ATSC or HD shows

I think I am beginning to understand your issue. I was not aware you were using XBox to play DVD movies. Component specification includes both 480i and 480p. I am not famailiar with XBox, but it seems the setup for DVD player in XBox does not allow you to set component output to 480i.

Do you have a stand alone DVD player with component outputs? If so, go to setup menu and see if you can set the component output to non-progressive (interlace). Maybe not every stand alone progressive scan DVD player allow you to select different component output settings.

Peter

DefMATRIXense · 06-21-2007, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

It's still not work on my HDTV, still not work...

On Xbox 360, you can't change to 480i when watch DVD playback or play games because component in their system is remain to be 480p to 1080p, up to 1080i for most HDTV set. You only need mini switch to TV instread of HDTV to get 480i but wouldn't catch CC on display, though, until you use composite cable or S-Video to catch CC.

I'm seriously, CC isn't work via component cable on my HDTV.

FYI, my HDTV support digital CC via over the air on antenna when watch in ATSC or HD shows

That's because either PS3 and 360 do not have a full functional players. I do believe if you bought a blu-ray or HD-DVD player that has a full functional will allow not only display CC on the HDTV but also remove both black bars as well. One of movies I watched was Star War 3 on the 360 and it wont remove both black bars. So I decided using a DVD burner( almost full functional) and it allows removing both black bars and display CC on it. By the way, I use VGA (360) and DVI (PC) cable. By the way, using MCE, it works also even though uusing HDMI, DVI, VGA, or conponment.

Foxrac · 06-22-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefMATRIXense

That's because either PS3 and 360 do not have a full functional players. I do believe if you bought a blu-ray or HD-DVD player that has a full functional will allow not only display CC on the HDTV but also remove both black bars as well. One of movies I watched was Star War 3 on the 360 and it wont remove both black bars. So I decided using a DVD burner( almost full functional) and it allows removing both black bars and display CC on it. By the way, I use VGA (360) and DVI (PC) cable. By the way, using MCE, it works also even though uusing HDMI, DVI, VGA, or conponment.

Xbox 360 does have feature to remove the black bars but depends on ratio.

but... it's bad idea because you will lose of picture on side, from left to right.

For movies, that's 2:35 or 2:40 then that's impossible to remove but some DVD players offers overscan, that is bad idea because you will loss of picture on side.

If 1:85 or 1:78 then there's perfect on 16:9 HDTV.

06-19-2007, 02:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
Banjo Mr. Movie Guy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,129 Blog Entries: 1	HDTV Captioning: What You Should Know I recently posted lengthy column on my blog. It’s about the captioning issues found on HDTV, DVD and high definition video formats. I feel that it's a great deal of importance that people especially the deaf and hard of hearing to become more informed when it come to this subject. I just thought I’d make my contribution and hope that people will find the information useful and helpful. Banjo's World: HDTV Captioning: What You Should Know

06-19-2007, 04:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
Silentwolfdog a toku fangirl Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 705	Thank you! Finally! I understand a little better now. I do want SDH/CC to move around as long as they stay on the bottom of the screen. How often would you see one that have it goes on the top of the screen? I hated that because sometime it would block the face and I missed out their facial expression. Also, is there any way you can move SDH/CC to the black part of the screen instead of on the picture itself? That does not really bother me as long as they don't move it away from the bottom of the picture too much. I remember one movie where they had CC on the top of the picture the whole time and I could not see faces of characters very well. It nearly drove me to insane. __________________ If you are using red or blue font, there's a good chance that I am not reading your posts due to it being blended into background! I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night. ~Sarah William Check my art at http://silentwolfdog.deviantart.com

06-19-2007, 06:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
CCfan Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: St. Paul, MN Posts: 930	Banjo, You talked about everything perfectly! Thank you very much for appreciate about it! clapping hands __________________ I am closed captioning fan.

06-19-2007, 06:41 PM	#7 (permalink)
sequoias Subaru rules! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Evergreen State Posts: 12,861	Banjo, that's very informative and thanks for sharing! __________________

06-19-2007, 10:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
rhr Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 709	Thank you! I know SDH and Subtitle don't have soild background, I am can't see... I want CC or Subtitle with Soild background or SDH with soild background, I will be happy! __________________ ЯHR

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06-19-2007, 09:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
Capmeister Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 300	Excellently done! Thank you!

06-19-2007, 01:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
Banjo Mr. Movie Guy Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,129 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks. :-)

06-19-2007, 01:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
deafclimber :: is a dirt dirty ? :: Join Date: May 2003 Location: hotlanta Posts: 3,568	well done, banjo. i hope deaf community understands now after reading your blog. again well done !

06-20-2007, 08:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
Neo Guest Posts: n/a	Good info. That's why I don't plan to get blu-ray/hd-dvd because HDMI won't support CC. It's pointless to get it. I like to wait till almost all studios use SDH.

06-21-2007, 12:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
Foxrac o_O Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 14,369	Banjo, one of member don't believe you or me. I had tested with playback for DVD movies on PS3 via HDMI cable and Xbox 360 via component cable then I set on TV setting for show CC but won't show up on my HDTV when use on component cable or HDMI, also it does work on composite cable or S-Video. Digital CC isn't supported on DVD player or other video source device, only can use for broadcasting the tv shows via over the air, such as HD antanna to catch shows in ATSC or HD, even regular cable if using tv shows in ATSC. __________________ God bless America

06-21-2007, 01:14 PM	#14 (permalink)
PowerON Please don't click me! D: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Would like to live at Fort Davis, TX Posts: 4,795 Blog Entries: 1	CC support go direct to HDTV Cable - YES S-Video - YES Composite Video - YES DVI - NO HDMI - NO Component Video - NO __________________ • [Illustrator.Blog-alloon.com] • Don't shoot me! I'm only blogger!

06-21-2007, 03:05 PM	#19 (permalink)
deafclimber :: is a dirt dirty ? :: Join Date: May 2003 Location: hotlanta Posts: 3,568	I have HDMI connected from comcast cable to hdtv and cc does work if you turn CC on in cable box's menu. also before i replaced component with HDMI, CC did work just fine with component on between cable box and hdtv. sorry it is off topic.

06-21-2007, 03:50 PM	#22 (permalink)
ideafspy Are you ...... Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 774	My television is HD and it doesn't work caption unless I have another device like Dish Network has support caption inside machine. I like what Dishnetwork give me my prefer caption. It looks like real live typing, is there a box of roach is doing typing? heh Anyway.. I am little concerns for our future about HD is begin grow and we have to pay extra for using device to make caption clear and without that caption will gabble.. HD's caption default is so SMALL! I have to set that machine to make large font that I can relax my eyes and not like this and ask my wife to borrow her glass.. __________________ Let the star inner your heart be blast dark sky where there will be a bright kingdom.

06-21-2007, 06:44 PM	#24 (permalink)
ideafspy Are you ...... Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 774	Well DONE! When I read your blog about those information and was like WOW. It plently benefit for us and understand that new technology and able to use it. I am going to copy those information and written from you. Well done! __________________ Let the star inner your heart be blast dark sky where there will be a bright kingdom.