Spin-off from mainstreaming thread

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rivenoak

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http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-education/75411-mainstream-v-special-school.html

Spinning off my son's info from the other thread.

Thanks, deafdyke for your feedback.
Anakin, it was nice to hear about your education experience.

We are in Phoenix, AZ. We have a few choices here. We're currently in the Tempe school district which has an awesome preschool that my son attends.
Tempe Elementary School District I'm not sure what programs are available in the other schools after entering Kindergarden.

We may move in the next year or so, and face a new school district.

Other options are:

If his IEP recommends it, Welcome to our site.

If we wanted to go oral, Desert Voices (keywords: deaf, school, auditory, child, children, cochlear implant, talk, speak, speech, listen, hearing aids, hearing impaired)

Or, if we don't mind him on a long bus ride,Sequoia School for the Deaf adn hard of hearing Either campus is currently at least 30 minutes away.

William is very oral, and many people wouldn't know that he is hoh as he sounds like many young kids learning to talk, but he is still not 100% with the speech goals on his IEP and struggles to make himself understood at times. I think that going back to ASL would help give him a vocabulary boost and a way to express himself when we can't make out what he's saying.

The only time he's spent with other d/hh kids was a once a week class as a two-year old and then the semester in the Center for Hearing Impaired Children classroom at preschool. Otherwise, he's always been with hearies.

I would like to give him more opportunities to be with other d/hh kiddos. I don't want to close him off from that culture, because I want him to have every opportunity and experience possible. I would feel bad if later in life he resented me for not exposing him to everything.

As he gets older, he is much more willing to wear his HAs and seems to realize (finally?) that he can hear more when they are on. We still listen to music super-loud, but when the HAs are on, I don't get as much "What? What?" The other day in the car, he actually indicated that I needed to turn off the music, and face him, because he couldn't hear what I was saying.

His daycare teachers say that he has lots of friends and everyone seems to understand him. He isn't quite the "leader" that he was at his 1st daycare, but it's hard to come into a situation where everyone has grown up together and you're the newbie, even at that age.

Thanks for letting me ramble!:ty:
 
William is very oral, and many people wouldn't know that he is hoh as he sounds like many young kids learning to talk, but he is still not 100% with the speech goals on his IEP and struggles to make himself understood at times. I think that going back to ASL would help give him a vocabulary boost and a way to express himself when we can't make out what he's saying.

The only time he's spent with other d/hh kids was a once a week class as a two-year old and then the semester in the Center for Hearing Impaired Children classroom at preschool. Otherwise, he's always been with hearies.

I would like to give him more opportunities to be with other d/hh kiddos. I don't want to close him off from that culture, because I want him to have every opportunity and experience possible. I would feel bad if later in life he resented me for not exposing him to everything.
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Rivenoaks,
Excellent. Thanks for giving more infomation. When they are little, a lot of hoh and oral kids think " I don't need Sign. I can hear and talk!" That's b/c language in kindergarten and preschool is pretty simple. Does he have a language delay or just articualtion issues?
I think regularly exposing him to other dhh kids would be a great idea. Maybe the reason he's very oral is b/c he hasn't really be exposed to other kids like him. Exposing him to other dhh kids will help him socially and emotionally (ie get rid of the " Oh I'm the only kid in the universe who has to wear hearing aids" feeling that a lot of mainstreamed dhh kids deal with. I can already tell you that the Oral Program wouldn't be good. Those kids tend to have significent language defiects which then can impact the quality of the currciulm.
There WAS a parent here whose daughter went to PDSD and then was mainstreamed in a program. I remember him saying that special ed (especially mainstream) in general in Arizona isn't that great. I wish he was still here. But maybe one idea could be doing mixed placement. Part time at a hearing school, and then "enrichement/Deaf stuff at the dhh school.
 
rivenoak.
You could play a game with him with ASL. Like " Look at this secret language we can use without your hearing aids! Isn't that cool?"
I do know of a lot of hearing parents of dhh kids who put them in a mainstream (regular classes regular school with minimal accomondations) sittuion, and they thought their kids were doing OK. Then they transferred their kids to a school or a program for the dhh and the kids REALLY thrived. One VERY VERY important thing to remember, is that while there are kids who do very decently and can even THRIVE with a mainstream to the max minimal accomondations approach, most mainstream special ed programs are designed for learning disabled kids. heck most mainstream academic programs are designed for the average learner. Did you know that GIFTED kids very often fall through the cracks and aren't challneged at mainstream schools too?
Oh, and if you haven't already done so I would strongly strongly suggest that you join the American Society for Deaf Children: American Society for Deaf Children
And expose him to lots and lots of dhh kids. I think one of the biggest mistakes that the experts make is assuming that hoh kids are more "hearing then deaf"
We can (and do hear) so we're not "voice off" unaided/unCId radical Deaf type (but then again there's only a small percentage of Deaf people who don't have oral skills) but at the same time, we're not hearing. We are hoh. We are both hearing and deaf. We often get pushed into the hearing world with the presumption that we don't "need" Deaf stuff.
Why not do a "best of both worlds approach" approach with your son? It does seem like a lot of hoh folks out there REALLY wish they'd had exposure to both worlds as kids.
 
Deafdyke,
Thank you for your wonderful posts!

I just joined ASDC. I'd never found them before, so that was a very good link. :ty:

I was also inspired to re-join Arizona Hands & Voices.

Personally, I don't agree with oral method, so the oral school isn't in consideration for us.

I think I will contact the charter school to tour their campuses & talk about their program. What I read online sounded really good. I'd be willing to have William on the bus for a long time if it is the best school for him.

I also need to talk to the school districts where I think we might move to find out what they offer for d/hh.

The idea of playing a "game" with ASL is a good one. He's just now understanding about secrets, so I think he could have a lot of fun with it.

Thank you again! You are a big inspiration and help.
 
damn I wish that parent from Arizona was here. Whatever happened to him? He used to post regularly here! He could meet and help you with any issues!
Personally, I don't agree with oral method, so the oral school isn't in consideration for us.
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That's AWESOME!

I think I will contact the charter school to tour their campuses & talk about their program. What I read online sounded really good. I'd be willing to have William on the bus for a long time if it is the best school for him.
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Oh definitly! I know that parents are taught to think " neighborhood school is the BEST placement" For some kids, especially kids who are postlingal or only need minimal accomonations or who are really high achievers, that may be true. But parents of dhh kids really should be and need to be openminded as to academic placement. They shouln't think they that means that we Deafies think that ALL dhh kids should go to the state school as a residental student. Just that they need to investigate other placements like regional programs for the Deaf. Many of them can be really good (especially if they are established) Also, just b/c a kid has decent oral abilty, that DOES NOT mean that they don't need ASL or they wouldn't benifit from Deaf education. I (and shel90 and prolly many other posters and lurkers) have decent oral abilty
If a formal program is available (like the charter school or an established formal program) by ALL MEANS
look into it. It might be the key for a lot of dhh students to REALLY suceed both socially and academicly. It does sound like maybe the charter school might be a really good placement. Sure, he'd have a long bus ride.....but he'd be with teachers who know how to teach kids like us. (and trust me, another big reason why I advocate Deaf ed placement is that it tends to remove a lot of stress off of the parents. Many parents tend to have to fight tooth and nail for ANY decent "beyond basic accomondations" for their dhh or otherwise classicly disabled kids) He would also not have to deal with special ed pull outs ( I was very heavily involved with pull outs for things like speech and resource room. Looking back I have NO clue how I managed everything) AND he could benifit from being one of the kids (rather then the deaf kid or the kid with the weird voice, or being thought of as retarded b/c of his voice) as well as things like working with a speech therapist who knows how to teach dhh kids. (most speech therapists really don't have a lot of experiance dealing with dhh kids)
 
There WAS a parent here whose daughter went to PDSD and then was mainstreamed in a program. I remember him saying that special ed (especially mainstream) in general in Arizona isn't that great. I wish he was still here.
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Oh, rivenoaks........search for bbnt's posts if you want to hook up with another Arizona parent!
 
I was mainstreamed orally in Phx, AZ and I hated it. My brother went to the deaf school (PDSD) and loved it.

I dont believe in playing games with children's language and socio-emotional development for the sake of oralism.
 
shel90 said:
I was mainstreamed orally in Phx, AZ and I hated it. My brother went to the deaf school (PDSD) and loved it.

I dont believe in playing games with children's language and socio-emotional development for the sake of oralism.
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Games to increase sign vocab are okay, but playing games with language development and social, emotional, and psychological development are absolutely unacceptable.
 
but playing games with language development and social, emotional, and psychological development are absolutely unacceptable.
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Exactly! It really does seem like mainstreaming to the max is basicly "trickle down theroy"
Many kids, including kids who are academic/spoken language superstars tend to have significent social, emotional and psychological delays. That in turn highly impacts quality of life issues.......
 
Just had our IEP meeting recently.

In addition to some articulation goals, we've written in that a TOD will help William learn to care for his HAs & also spend other time with him every month and that they will have a deaf staff member spend time with him as an adult d/hh role model.

It sounds like there will be another d/hh child in William's classroom next year. I really hope so.

Shel90, if you don't mind saying, in what school district were you? You can PM me, if you prefer.

I don't think I answered a question about his language delay. William did not speak until he was about 2 1/2. I would say he remains delayed in his verbal communication. His vocabulary is behind peers' but improves all the time.
 
rivenoak said:
Just had our IEP meeting recently.

In addition to some articulation goals, we've written in that a TOD will help William learn to care for his HAs & also spend other time with him every month and that they will have a deaf staff member spend time with him as an adult d/hh role model.

It sounds like there will be another d/hh child in William's classroom next year. I really hope so.

Shel90, if you don't mind saying, in what school district were you? You can PM me, if you prefer.

I don't think I answered a question about his language delay. William did not speak until he was about 2 1/2. I would say he remains delayed in his verbal communication. His vocabulary is behind peers' but improves all the time.
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Hi there..I did have a good education but I was "forgotten" and almost fell through the cracks because I taught myself how to survive. Socio-emotionally, it was a disaster.

I was educated in the Washington Elementary School District. Good quality of education by AZ standards but didnt know how to meet deaf/hoh children's needs properly.
 
and that they will have a deaf staff member spend time with him as an adult d/hh role model.

It sounds like there will be another d/hh child in William's classroom next year. I really hope so.
I don't think I answered a question about his language delay. William did not speak until he was about 2 1/2. I would say he remains delayed in his verbal communication. His vocabulary is behind peers' but improves all the time.
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Does the deaf staff member know ASL? I think that's an awesome accomondation!
That would be awesome if William had another d/hh peer.
I think it's still fairly common for d/hh kids to have significent speech and language delays early on. (like preschool/kindergarten and early elementary) Granted the days of deaf kids who only have a handful of spoken language vocab is long gone...but it's nothing to really freak out about.
William is still in preschool/kindergarten right? I would try to find out if the dhh school services may offer better speech therapy. The trouble with neighborhood speech therapists is again....they tend to have a very token amount of training in how to teach dhh kids (the bulk of their caseload is usually articualtion issues)
Maybe too see if William might be able to go to school a couple of days a week at his current placement, and then maybe a couple of days a week at a dhh program/school. You could argue that could be in lieu of services with a teacher of the Deaf.
It is actually fairly common for dhh kids to do pretty well in the mainstream early on, and then start to struggle (especially around third or fourth grade)
It is really hard to tell what a good placement for a dhh kid is.....Some people may think " Oh he's doing well....he doesn't "need" a school/program for the dhh" You really don't want him to be "dog paddling in the mainstream" He might do really really well in a formal dhh program/school. Maybe a good idea might be to take him to one of the Deaf Schools and have them evaluate him, and see what they reccomend.
Personally I think if a dhh program/school is available, then parents should take advantage of them. The early childhood programs at schools and programs for the dhh tend to be REALLY good. (and I think many if not most hearing parents, especially ones who may think that Deaf Ed isn't that great, would be really surprised at the quality of deaf ed. It's changing and getting better all the time) I actually know someone who sent her daughter to Kansas School for the Deaf and a mainstream preschool/kindergarten...and I remember her saying that if they didn't really like the mainstream program, they would have had Remy at the Deaf School ALL day!
And I second shel......another very significent thing to worry about is social-emotional development. It might not be a big deal if you live in an area that is realtively diverse.....but it does seem like social emotional issues are a BIG BIG issue even for the AG Bell types who go off to Name Brand College.
 
think that going back to ASL would help give him a vocabulary boost and a way to express himself when we can't make out what he's saying.
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Something I JUST thought of. Even kids with pretty good receptive speech on their audiograms, have difficulty in crowd situtions or with people who aren't great speakers. heck, even people with unilateral loss have trouble.

I would like to give him more opportunities to be with other d/hh kiddos. I don't want to close him off from that culture, because I want him to have every opportunity and experience possible. I would feel bad if later in life he resented me for not exposing him to everything.
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And that's an AWESOME goal. I do think that kids who are doing the "mainstream with pullouts/accomondations" approach could strongly benifit from dhh extracurriculars, like going off to dhh camp or going to after school activities at a dhh school/program. And just remember, that it's very common for educational placement to change over time. The best advice that I can give to parents of dhh kids, (and I'm not targeting rivenoak specificly, just saying in general, and for the lurkers) is to keep an open mind as to educational placement.
I do think that mainstreaming needs to be very carefully done. I also think that the educators need to point parents towards specific programs and resources.
 
Just an update: sent a request to Sequoia School to see about taking a tour of a campus.

I finally mapped their addresses and their all-grades Mesa campus is only 11 miles from our house. The other campus, which is in Phoenix proper as we are, is about 20 miles away from our house. And oddly enough, it's right near PDSD...and, Shel90, physically located in the Washington district. Hmmmmmmm.

I hope to hear from them soon so that I can set up a visit. I know the school year is ending, but even if I can get something on my calendar for next fall, I will be very, very happy.

I just missed one of their open houses. I put their page on my facebook so I can get notice of other activities they have coming up. There's a poet coming on 5/22, but I don't sign well enough to understand unless they have captions or handouts for hearies. I'll have to ask about that...

Tomorrow is Water Day & ice cream social at preschool. Some of the kids will "graduate" to Kindergarten, but everyone gets to celebrate. I hope to take some cute pictures and video. There's about another week of school after that, then summer vacation.

William and I visited a new daycare, located on his preK campus. There aren't any other d/hh kids enrolled in his age group, but there are lots of good things about the program. We haven't made up our minds yet, but it would provide a smaller class setting, no 1.5 hrs/day on the bus, opportunity to have a rest between lunch and his preK class, and no being on a different schedule than everyone else.
 
rivenoak said:
Just an update: sent a request to Sequoia School to see about taking a tour of a campus.

I finally mapped their addresses and their all-grades Mesa campus is only 11 miles from our house. The other campus, which is in Phoenix proper as we are, is about 20 miles away from our house. And oddly enough, it's right near PDSD...and, Shel90, physically located in the Washington district. Hmmmmmmm.

I hope to hear from them soon so that I can set up a visit. I know the school year is ending, but even if I can get something on my calendar for next fall, I will be very, very happy.

I just missed one of their open houses. I put their page on my facebook so I can get notice of other activities they have coming up. There's a poet coming on 5/22, but I don't sign well enough to understand unless they have captions or handouts for hearies. I'll have to ask about that...

Tomorrow is Water Day & ice cream social at preschool. Some of the kids will "graduate" to Kindergarten, but everyone gets to celebrate. I hope to take some cute pictures and video. There's about another week of school after that, then summer vacation.

William and I visited a new daycare, located on his preK campus. There aren't any other d/hh kids enrolled in his age group, but there are lots of good things about the program. We haven't made up our minds yet, but it would provide a smaller class setting, no 1.5 hrs/day on the bus, opportunity to have a rest between lunch and his preK class, and no being on a different schedule than everyone else.
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PDSD was only about 10 to 15 mins away from where I grew up, ironically.
 
but it would provide a smaller class setting, no 1.5 hrs/day on the bus, opportunity to have a rest between lunch and his preK class, and no being on a different schedule than everyone else.
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ooooooo.........that's another plus I didn't think of! The BIG plus about Deaf School/program is that there's no pull outs. Things like speech therapy are integrated into the regular schdule. AND the speech therapists know how to teach kids like us
Also, exposure to other dhh peers (and a better social life!) , and teachers who are trained to teach dhh kids....you don't get a lot of " oh he's doomed to spend the rest of his life on disabilty b/c he's not responding to minimal accomondations. ". I am SO excited that you're looking into this program!
 
deafdyke said:
ooooooo.........that's another plus I didn't think of! The BIG plus about Deaf School/program is that there's no pull outs. Things like speech therapy are integrated into the regular schdule. AND the speech therapists know how to teach kids like us
Also, exposure to other dhh peers (and a better social life!) , and teachers who are trained to teach dhh kids....you don't get a lot of " oh he's doomed to spend the rest of his life on disabilty b/c he's not responding to minimal accomondations. ". I am SO excited that you're looking into this program!
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This isn't true at our state school for the Deaf. Speech has to be pull out since spoken language isn't allowed in the classroom. Plus, less than half the kids even did speech, so it wasn't part of class at all.
 
faire_jour said:
This isn't true at our state school for the Deaf. Speech has to be pull out since spoken language isn't allowed in the classroom. Plus, less than half the kids even did speech, so it wasn't part of class at all.
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I believe WSD is the same. Speech is an individual elective
 
Faire-jour, since I don't know all of your info, in which state are you located?

DH has his eye on a particular kind of job, but we don't know where we would eventually land, so I'd like to file that info away in my "things to know about different states" mental file.

:ty:
 
rivenoak said:
Faire-jour, since I don't know all of your info, in which state are you located?

DH has his eye on a particular kind of job, but we don't know where we would eventually land, so I'd like to file that info away in my "things to know about different states" mental file.

:ty:
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Utah
 
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