For Non-believers; Rapture

jazzy said:
Yes, I know conservative Christians don't pay attention to other stories except for the bible, only.
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I like to stick with the facts, not rumors or gossip.
 
Reba said:
I like to stick with the facts, not rumors or gossip.
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Reba, you speak with such authority. You clearly are certain that you are so right. Your facts are to me very black and white thinking that lack much depth.

To answer the original question, how can the human mind understand life, really? Our brains aren't capable of comprehending. I believe we're on the verge of huge changes, I do. The Mayan civilization is a mystery, as other mysteries that we know of, yet choose to ignore because they don't fit into our paradigm of "what we believe". The Mayans predicted great changes in 2012. There are many people, many, many people who are channeling information about changes in the very near future. I don't believe there's a judgment. I think it's possible we may enter different realities, and so to those who stay in this reality it may seem that others have disappeared. I don't know. The only thing I really know if that I want to learn love. The rest I go on faith. I don't for one minute think I will "burn in hell" good God if I don't believe what the human men distorted from the Christ's teachings.
 
PrincessTabu said:
Reba, you speak with such authority. You clearly are certain that you are so right. Your facts are to me very black and white thinking that lack much depth.

To answer the original question, how can the human mind understand life, really? Our brains aren't capable of comprehending. I believe we're on the verge of huge changes, I do. The Mayan civilization is a mystery, as other mysteries that we know of, yet choose to ignore because they don't fit into our paradigm of "what we believe". The Mayans predicted great changes in 2012. There are many people, many, many people who are channeling information about changes in the very near future. I don't believe there's a judgment. I think it's possible we may enter different realities, and so to those who stay in this reality it may seem that others have disappeared. I don't know. The only thing I really know if that I want to learn love. The rest I go on faith. I don't for one minute think I will "burn in hell" good God if I don't believe what the human men distorted from the Christ's teachings.
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:gpost:

I have been avoiding this topic because I am not up to discussing/debating with anyone about religious issue but one thing, how do we know that bible actually contains the facts, not rumor or gossip? That's something for people to think about.

About Mayans and 2012 stuff, Mayan are known for not making any error in astrology and predictions. Hell, we used their calendar system... I think I trust them more than others.

Edit: Naturally, I believe in God and Jesus... but stay away from these churches who preached and encouraged people to enforce their beliefs or judge on other people.
 
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I only know those who is non-believer will turn to believer. Due the people will see the ugly color will show the non-believer will turn to believer. The remaining non-believer is still don't want to accept the truth like stone as the rock. The scary part is that non-believer will love to chop our head who believe in jesus's name. Even non-believer saw the brighter and the light is the one. So the non-believer start believer and will get head chop to prevent the non-believer turn to believer.

If I have not accept Jesus and then Yes I will be speechless after I see thing that people have vanish and went to heaven by our eyes.

For what Reba is posting this message correct.

Again, I do belive as Jesus in my Heart.
 
First, I'm confused as to how the Maya people became involved in this conversation.
There are people of Maya decent still around, their civilization failed, but the people didn't just disapear.... They are still around.... wierd....

how do we know that bible actually contains the facts, not rumor or gossip?
-magatsu

How do we know anything is fact if we can't use the senses to prove it's existance.

About Mayans and 2012 stuff, Mayan are known for not making any error in astrology and predictions. Hell, we used their calendar system... I think I trust them more than others.
- magatsu

So it's a trust issue. Like all the places, names, and events that have been verified from the Bible? Thousands of places, names, and events verified...... People find a few in there that don't make sense (but can be logically accounted for) and you write the whole thing off as a rumor.....
So it's ok to trust the Maya.... but it's not ok for Reba to trust the Bible?

Naturally, I believe in God and Jesus... but stay away from these churches who preached and encouraged people to enforce their beliefs or judge on other people.
(I'm not picking on you Magatsu... it's just you said some interesting things.)

Judging others and enforcing beliefs.
If I tell you, "that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as Saviour, you will burn in Hell", am I forcing my belief on you?
I am confused with people using this phrase - "Don't force your beliefs on me". What does that mean?
That I have some kind of power to make you believe something?
I could hold a gun to your head, force you to come to church, force you to pray, and whatever other action I can think of... but changing your belief... is something I can't do.. even with a gun.

There are many people, many, many people who are channeling information about changes in the very near future. I don't believe there's a judgment. I think it's possible we may enter different realities, and so to those who stay in this reality it may seem that others have disappeared. I don't know. The only thing I really know if that I want to learn love. The rest I go on faith. I don't for one minute think I will "burn in hell" good God if I don't believe what the human men distorted from the Christ's teachings.
- PrincessTabu

May I ask a question?
How is it that an individual open to the idea of channeling, different dimensions, and other powers, has come to the conclusion that "Hell" is an impossibility?

I find it odd that individuals will point out that Reba is Black and White on Certain issuses, when the same can be said for them. So Black and White in fact that you wouldn't consider the possibility that you are going to "Hell" for one minute.
 
"There are many people, many, many people who are channeling information about changes in the very near future. I don't believe there's a judgment. I think it's possible we may enter different realities, and so to those who stay in this reality it may seem that others have disappeared. I don't know. The only thing I really know if that I want to learn love. The rest I go on faith. I don't for one minute think I will "burn in hell" good God if I don't believe what the human men distorted from the Christ's teachings.
- PrincessTabu

May I ask a question?
How is it that an individual open to the idea of channeling, different dimensions, and other powers, has come to the conclusion that "Hell" is an impossibility?

I find it odd that individuals will point out that Reba is Black and White on Certain issuses, when the same can be said for them. So Black and White in fact that you wouldn't consider the possibility that you are going to "Hell" for one minute.[/QUOTE]"



I am open to ideas that don't use fear to control people. What is hell? That is the difference. Is hell a place where people burn, is it a state of mind, is it a fallacy? What? You didn't listen to what I said. What I said was that I don't believe I will as Reba put it "burn in hell" because I don't believe what the human MEN distorted of Christ's teachings. I didn't say one way or the other if I believed hell existed. Do your research and learn the truth about history. Read the texts that the church chose not to include in their book.

In the meantime I choose love. I choose to believe what feels right to me and not what some people who use fear to keep their flocks in order. Maybe that's hell, huh?

I think, I'm open to different ideas. I don't just take what's shoved down my throat by people who frankly I don't have a lot of respect for. There are many people who have many beliefs. The narrow minds of some Christians are very destructive, and I won't go along with it because that's the status quo. I consider myself a free thinker, I study all perspectives and choose what feels aligned with what I believe; and that is that all life is precious.

And btw, why wouldn't I be open to channeling? Why do the fundamental Christians think the non-physical world only communicated with a small group of people at a small frame of time? Again, exclusionary.
 
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I am open to ideas that don't use fear to control people.
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God does not use the fear of eternal hell to "control" people. He uses it to warn people.

Suppose you are on a country road. Around the curve you notice that heavy rains have washed out the bridge. You stop your car, get out, and stand in front of the curve so you can warn other drivers about the bridge. They can't see the danger but you know it is there. You can warn other drivers about the danger but you can't "force" them to stop driving. Even though it is cold and raining hard, and people curse you, you continue to stand out there warning them. Why? Because you love people and want them safe. NOT because you want to "control" them.
 
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Dang, it has started already.
I think this might be a good time to point out that th

*POOF*
 
First, a questioning of one's beliefs should never be considered an attack, until a person simply refuses to listen to your answers and is arguing simply for the sake of making you feel little. This is evident when someone chooses to question an individuals characteristics, instead of the statements presented.

I question what you have said because I would like to understand better where you are coming from. Do I expect to change your mind? Do I expect to change my own? possibly. That's what being "open" is all about, willing to learn when things are logically demonstrated and are trust worthy.

I am open to ideas that don't use fear to control people. What is hell? That is the difference. Is hell a place where people burn, is it a state of mind, is it a fallacy? What? You didn't listen to what I said. What I said was that I don't believe I will as Reba put it "burn in hell" because I don't believe what the human MEN distorted of Christ's teachings. I didn't say one way or the other if I believed hell existed. Do your research and learn the truth about history. Read the texts that the church chose not to include in their book.

I have read some of the texts the church has excluded. I have studied some of the greek language to better understand some of the greek texts. I have done research on the vulgate, and the septuigent. To assume I have not is an attemt to discredit my arguement on the assumption I am not as educated as yourself. It is possible you are far more educated than I am, this however does not make make my argument invalid.

Let us examine your statement: I do not believe (for one minute) I will burn in Hell.
1. You do not believe Hell exists.
2. You do not believe there is fire in Hell.
3. You do not believe you are going there.
In any of these you ignore the fact that one of these (if not all) is a possibility.
To strongly believe you are not going Hell, is as black and white as Reba saing that "if you don't believe in Jesus, you are going to burn in Hell"

Second Statement: because I don't believe what the human MEN distorted of Christ's teachings

Again, you assume they are distortions of what Christ taught. In fact evidence would favour that biblical texts are pretty accurate from documents 1000s of years old. That's pretty impressive. However, you may mean that the authours of the New Testement distorted what Christ said. In which case you would be closed to the fact that what the authors wrote is exactly what Christ said. There is no way of knowing for sure that the authors of new testement distorted anything, and should be at least considered.

I think, I'm open to different ideas. I don't just take what's shoved down my throat by people who frankly I don't have a lot of respect for. There are many people who have many beliefs. The narrow minds of some Christians are very destructive, and I won't go along with it because that's the status quo. I consider myself a free thinker, I study all perspectives and choose what feels aligned with what I believe; and that is that all life is precious.

There is a difference between a narrow mind, and strong conviction. A strong conviction in Christianity by deffinition, is exclusive.

There is nothing wrong with having a strong conviction for something, I would rather be a person who understands my beliefs and will stand firm on them. I am open to listening, I am open to trying to understand your point of view.

Howerver, understand that your belief has obviously left you with the opinion that Christianity is wrong/ or distorted. Whether this is because you feel it uses fear to reach people, whether you feel that it is the status quo, or whether you feel it is exclusive, you have ruled out christianity.
 
Dreamslayer,
You obviously have my analyzed to a tee. Except you don't know me from Adam, and you don't know how deeply my spirituality is. Am I pissed at the religious right? Yes, I am. I'm pissed that George Bush was elected based on his "morality". I'm sick to death of hearing how people who don't follow the religious right's views of "morality" are "burning in hell". I don't think I'm more educated than anyone. If you knew me you wouldn't even imply that.
What I am is a person who believes that all people are sacred. I believe our earth who we have decimated is sacred. I believe our animal friends are sacred. I have friends who are very deeply Christian. They, however, follow Jesus' teachings. They don't get off on using hate to promote fear, and say it's in God's name. There are many people on this list who are Christian who I have the utmost respect and admiration for. They live love, they don't put people down for having different beliefs. That's just a tiny bit of who I am. People who really want to know me I am more than happy to share myself with.
 
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DreamSlayer said:
how do we know that bible actually contains the facts, not rumor or gossip?
-magatsu

How do we know anything is fact if we can't use the senses to prove it's existance.
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Or are you growing up or train to believe? You know, people can literally 'change' the reality... it is largely depend on how we view the reality based on how we grow up and etcerta. For example, for years that americans are trained to believe that smoking cigarettes is good for your health but they realized that it isn't. Try to think another possiblity.

DreamSlayer said:
About Mayans and 2012 stuff, Mayan are known for not making any error in astrology and predictions. Hell, we used their calendar system... I think I trust them more than others.
- magatsu

So it's a trust issue. Like all the places, names, and events that have been verified from the Bible? Thousands of places, names, and events verified...... People find a few in there that don't make sense (but can be logically accounted for) and you write the whole thing off as a rumor.....
So it's ok to trust the Maya.... but it's not ok for Reba to trust the Bible?
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Where did I say that it is not ok for you and Reba to trust the bible? Hmm? Don't be judge so quickly. I tend to avoid to do one thing that most christians love to do: Judge on others.

DreamSlayer said:
Naturally, I believe in God and Jesus... but stay away from these churches who preached and encouraged people to enforce their beliefs or judge on other people.
(I'm not picking on you Magatsu... it's just you said some interesting things.)

Judging others and enforcing beliefs.
If I tell you, "that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as Saviour, you will burn in Hell", am I forcing my belief on you?
I am confused with people using this phrase - "Don't force your beliefs on me". What does that mean?
That I have some kind of power to make you believe something?
I could hold a gun to your head, force you to come to church, force you to pray, and whatever other action I can think of... but changing your belief... is something I can't do.. even with a gun.
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Yes. Read my comment real carefully please.. I will repeat myself to make my post across: these churches who preached and encouraged people to enforce their beliefs or judge on other people. So..

your words: If I tell you, "that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as Saviour, you will burn in Hell", am I forcing my belief on you?

my words: judge on other people -- Yes, whoever said that to me, they (mostly christians) are so quick to judge me. That's what Jesus preached against that but unfortunately that christians think that it does NOT apply them while it does apply us.

your words: I am confused with people using this phrase - "Don't force your beliefs on me". What does that mean?

Think about it for a minute. Homosexuality is good example. Jesus preached about social equality. Mediate on his magical words: 'social equality' and you probably will find the answer for your own question.

your words: That I have some kind of power to make you believe something?

Laws about same marriage, forbid single mothers from teaching at school, list go on... ring any bell, dude? With these laws, people will train these poor children to believe that single mothers are wrong to teach. Ironically that they failed to understand what Jesus' social equality mean. Jesus must be roll-eyed at these people at this moment.

your words: I could hold a gun to your head, force you to come to church, force you to pray, and whatever other action I can think of... but changing your belief... is something I can't do.. even with a gun.

You don't have to point a gun to my head to change my beliefs, you can USE the laws to FORCE your beliefs on us or CHANGE our beliefs (read up about my laws comment). That's conservative christans' strategy for you. Remember the Dark Age history? That's where America will be if they kept pushing the idea of separation of politics and religious out.

Now about your odd statement: I find it odd that individuals will point out that Reba is Black and White on Certain issuses, when the same can be said for them. So Black and White in fact that you wouldn't consider the possibility that you are going to "Hell" for one minute

I think it is more applied to them than us since I believe we understand the meaning of 'social equality'. I can go on and on about what I mean but it often to be pointless to argue with conservative-christians or some christians. When I learned more and more, I begin to understand why Native Americans often to be roll-eyed at christians in the past.

[Add] Reason why I despise some christians mostly because of their quick but delusional judgement. I mean, they dare to tell others that if they didn't go to the church and they will go to hell for it (I saw that part for real). That's black and white for you. Jesus repeatedly told people to not judge or enforce their beliefs on other people.. You can see why many people have this 'hatred' toward these christians. You also can see why christians have long, long history of bloodbath wars. I will say again.. I do believe in Jesus and God but stay away from churches or christianity organizations. There is no way for you or any conservative christians to twist my words. I already practice what Jesus preached. Examples: social equality, not to enforce my beliefs on others and not to judge others. So if anyone dare to say that I will go to hell if I didn't accept Jesus as Savior or go to churches, I would love to shove my shoes down in their throat and let them choke to death.[Add]

Anyway I really don't want to argue with you or anyone (especially some christians). But I know one thing: I never look black and white on religious issues for sure. Note: I didn't say that you or others did, it is not MY place to JUDGE you folks. I expect the same from you folks. Have fun with this topic (I will not bother to check this topic ever again).

Sayonara.
 
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I am confused with people using this phrase - "Don't force your beliefs on me". What does that mean?

Think about it a minute. Homosexuality is good example. Jesus preached about social equality. Mediate on his magical words: 'social equality' and you probably will find the answer for your own question.


You don't have to point a gun to my head to change my beliefs, you can USE the laws to FORCE your beliefs on us or CHANGE our beliefs (read up about my laws comment).
Sayonara.
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Thank Goddess for you Magatsu!!!
SMILES
The Princess, Oh Yeah
 
PrincessTabu said:
Dreamslayer,
You obviously have my analyzed to a tee. Except you don't know me from Adam, and you don't know how deeply my spirituality is. Am I pissed at the religious right? Yes, I am. I'm pissed that George Bush was elected based on his "morality". I'm sick to death of hearing how people who don't follow the religious right's views of "morality" are "burning in hell". I don't think I'm more educated than anyone. If you knew me you wouldn't even imply that.
What I am is a person who believes that all people are sacred. I believe our earth who we have decimated is sacred. I believe our animal friends are sacred. I have friends who are very deeply Christian. They, however, follow Jesus' teachings. They don't get off on using hate to promote fear, and say it's in God's name. There are many people on this list who are Christian who I have the utmost respect and admiration for. They live love, they don't put people down for having different beliefs. That's just a tiny bit of who I am. People who really want to know me I am more than happy to share myself with.
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Well said. :)
 
PrincessTabu said:
Dreamslayer,
You obviously have my analyzed to a tee. Except you don't know me from Adam, and you don't know how deeply my spirituality is. Am I pissed at the religious right? Yes, I am. I'm pissed that George Bush was elected based on his "morality". I'm sick to death of hearing how people who don't follow the religious right's views of "morality" are "burning in hell". I don't think I'm more educated than anyone. If you knew me you wouldn't even imply that.
What I am is a person who believes that all people are sacred. I believe our earth who we have decimated is sacred. I believe our animal friends are sacred. I have friends who are very deeply Christian. They, however, follow Jesus' teachings. They don't get off on using hate to promote fear, and say it's in God's name. There are many people on this list who are Christian who I have the utmost respect and admiration for. They live love, they don't put people down for having different beliefs. That's just a tiny bit of who I am. People who really want to know me I am more than happy to share myself with.
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:gpost: :gpost:

I cannot believe that I missed your good post (I guess I focus on other post too much). Thank to jazzy for quoting! (I found out that jazzy posted so I want to read her post too)

Edit: btw, the christians that you spoke of... that's what being christian means but unfortunately that specific meaning is totally lost when the Religious Right decided to go berserk and suicidal. It is quite frightening sight to see.
 
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My appologies, it seems my comments have come across harsher than I had wanted.

How have I judged any of you? Or how have I forced my opinion on any of you?
If I carefully evaluate your arguement, and conclude that it does not make sense to me, I will question what you have said. If I have concluded you are wrong, then that is my opinion, and I am entitled to it. Just as you are entitled to believe I am wrong.
Or must I believe you are right?

To PrincessTabu: I appologize, for it seems you have taken my comments as a personal attack. I do not agree with you, and I argued against what you said, however, I never put you down for it. (You may have been offended when I said that some of your opinions were closed, however, I believe you agreed and stated your reasoning for it.)

I said, and I quote myself - "To assume I have not is an attemt to discredit my arguement on the assumption I am not as educated as yourself. It is possible you are far more educated than I am, this however does not make make my argument invalid."

oh... I see. Understand that this was in response to the fact you told me to " Do your research and learn the truth about history."
Your statement implies, that you have done your research and I have not. I am sure you have. From your comments, I believe you are an intelligent individual. My arguement had nothing to do with research, it had to do with how closed your opinion was to the fact that it is possible that Hell is a place people may go, if they do not believe in Jesus.

Again, I appologize if it seemed personal, but it was never meant to be. Debating is this whole room, a heated arguement, is good when it sticks to logic and understanding, and is used for learning. It is nothing personal.

To Magatsu: I believe you are wrong. That is the only judgment I have passed. What kind of judment can a man (or woman) place on you that would cause such anger in you?
Are you angry that I believe people who do not believe in Jesus will go to Hell?
Are you angry that I have stated my belief?

I already practice what Jesus preached. Examples: social equality, not to enforce my beliefs on others and not to judge others. So if anyone dare to say that I will go to hell if I didn't accept Jesus as Savior or go to churches, I would love to shove my shoes down in their throat and let them choke to death.

I am saying that. It is my belief. It is my belief that Jesus is the way to heaven, and I will believe that as you shove your shoe down my throat.

Please understand how it feels to hear people say that they are open to other's beliefs, all except yours because your heaven is exclusive. Christianity is open to EVERYONE. They may choose to believe in Jesus. They may choose not too. I respect that you have that choice, and whatever choice you make, I will respect. However, I believe one is right, and one is wrong. I have that right.

As for the teaching of Jesus.
Jesus said:
John 7:24 - Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment
It does not say: Do not judge.

The Bible Says:
John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.

John 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life." 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Jesus said:
John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.

Jesus claimed heaven was exclusive. It is a belief, and a teaching.
If you believe Jesus taught differently, then I ask simply to know from where you have taken your belief from.

As for Laws restricting actions: No Law, No Gun, No one can take your belief away from you. There are lots of Gay individuals that believe they should be allowed to get married. The Law only restricts that from happening, doesn't change the belief. There are countries that make it against the law to be Christian. That doesn't stop people from Believing. No government, or law will please 100% of the population. But it wont Change their beliefs. Your comment is only that children may develop the belief in something you do not agree with.

Again, I meant no disrespect.

The conversations have been intellegent, and interesting, and much consideration has taken place.

I offer my respect to all who have contributed.
 
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Magatsu said:
...I mean, they dare to tell others that if they didn't go to the church and they will go to hell for it (I saw that part for real). That's black and white for you.
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Just to set the record straight. I have never said, nor do I believe, that people will go to hell just because they don't attend church.


So if anyone dare to say that I will go to hell if I didn't accept Jesus as Savior or go to churches, I would love to shove my shoes down in their throat and let them choke to death.
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My, that certainly is non-judgmental, loving, and open-minded!
 
Welcome back, Reba.

Do I sense some anger here?
If so, I hug you.
You are not alone.
 
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