"Fixing" the child or not?

souggy said:
Wirelessly posted

Bottsini's method of communication is her pen. She prefer to write/type over speaking or signing. Trust me, she knows what she's talking about.

Poverty is not an excuse for bad parents.
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Correct!
 
We also had very little money as well, but my parents made sure I had a way to communicate when I no longer had my HA's. I always kept paper and pencil with me where ever I went. I was able to communicate with friends as well using the same thing.
 
GrendelQ said:
I'm curious, without access to sound or ASL, do you remember how you communicated with family/ teachers before you were old enough to write?
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She can talk to her parents, but as far as her parents talking to her probably was struggle. I had no problem talking to my parents and they do listen... but them replying back to me was a struggle. They did gestured alot though.
 
GrendelQ said:
I'm curious, without access to sound or ASL, do you remember how you communicated with family/ teachers before you were old enough to write?
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I had a lot of picture books that I was able to use and point to. Also, my parents would take pictures out of magazines or the newspaper to make a book for me.
 
Wirelessly posted

GrendelQ said:
shel90 said:
Reading the recent posts, it seems like without CIs deaf children cant communicate at all using spoken language.

If so, then how do many of us manage to do it without having CIs at all? I was one of them.
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I'm curious, without access to sound or ASL, do you remember how you communicated with family/ teachers before you were old enough to write?
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I drew pictures. :p

Just kidding; I just pointed at words. I knew how to read long before I learned how to speak or write.
 
faire_jour said:
Who do you know that acts like that?

I know of parents who waterproof the processor for swimming, but that is about the language and communication that takes place during swimming, and they don't want them left out. I have seen it generally in older kids, not little ones, but sometimes they do it for swimming lessons, so the child can understand the instructor.

I don't think it is done out of sadness or fear of silence.
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That's why I support teaching ASL even if a deaf child has CI. It's a good backup for situations like swimming lessons, if the battery goes dead, if something goes wrong with the processor, if it's too loud and the noise is just getting to be too much. Or on a larger scale if a deaf child still has poor speech discrimination or can't wear CI because of problems with vertigo/dizziness, or painful tinnitus. Then at least there's ASL to fall back on.

I have a lot more respect for parents of CI kids who give their children ASL as well as spoken English. I know you and Grendel have given ASL so I respect you for making that decision.
 
GrendelQ said:
I'm curious, without access to sound or ASL, do you remember how you communicated with family/ teachers before you were old enough to write?
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I was one of those children who did not have an effective form of communication. So I communicated by gestures and made noises when I want something or attention. Also I'd drag people around pointing at things or people trying to tell them what I saw or tell them my story. Then when I had access to proper communication then I was able to talk to my family, and that was before I started writing.

In response to A's post. Sure your family were poor but they shouldn't have used that as a excuse as to why you had to stay in a world of silence. When I was born, my family was living hand to mouth and still, they managed to get resources I and they needed, and they attended classes to learn sign language. If a family wants to learn sign language, they have to pay out of their pockets, which I believe that the Govt should have subsidy.
 
It will be no surprise that once CI/StemCell becomes mandatory order by Gov't, then America will be no longer America. What it will be, Neo-Nazism country. Heck, if Stem Cell did exist during the Third Reich era, none of the deaf civilians had to be murdered or sterilized. So now, to those hearies who certainly want deafies to be "fixed"...it is obvious that they may not be aware that they are being brainwashed by these current "Dr. Himmlers" in order to become Neo-nazi followers. Ugh.
 
To response to Yizuman's post #11 last paragraph and #17, A's post #21, and Souggy's post #22 -

It will be no surprise that once CI/StemCell becomes mandatory order by Gov't, then America will be no longer America. What it will be, Neo-Nazism country. Heck, if Stem Cell did exist during the Third Reich era, none of the deaf civilians had to be murdered or sterilized. So now, to those "superior" hearies who certainly want deafies to be "fixed"...it is obvious that they may not be aware that they are being brainwashed by these current "Dr. Himmlers" in order to become Neo-nazi followers. Ugh.
 
GrendelQ said:
I'm curious, without access to sound or ASL, do you remember how you communicated with family/ teachers before you were old enough to write?
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Lipreading and yes, I missed out more than half of everything around me all of my life. I learned ASL at 25 years old. My db loss was 110 to 120 in both ears.

Now, u know why I am very anti-oral deaf ed only? It wasnt only me that suffered, but my brother, several of my friends and now the children I work with.

It is just plain wrong wrong to put deaf children in a learning envrionment where they dont have equal access to like their hearing counterparts are guaranteed to.
 
Coping with Device Failure|Hearing Families <----here's another example of what I mean when I say parents really need to help their child learn how to deal with silent and without technologies. My parents are good parents. I would not want to be taken away from them ever! I just wanted them to be better educated. They were not ignoring me. Just that they tend to say nevermind when something is not clear to me but more often when I don't have my hearing aids. Most families do this. I do think it is bad parenting on their part for not knowing ASL. They have a big family so it is very hard for them to find the time and money all the time. I was talking to them and all, so they think everything is fine. I never told them how I felt because at the time, I felt that my deaf is a disability and it was something I have to accept.

edited: btw, I do not think writing is a bad thing. I think it is great, and I too depend on writing as my form of communication. Just that everytime I write to my family, they take it the wrong way and get upset, because they can't read my emotions (I guess that's why we put smiley faces but it doesn't always help). But when I talk to them, it is not like that. And it take awhile for me to figure out how express myself in writing.
 
A said:
Coping with Device Failure|Hearing Families <----here's another example of what I mean when I say parents really need to help their child learn how to deal with silent and without technologies. My parents are good parents. I would not want to be taken away from them ever! I just wanted them to be better educated. They were not ignoring me. Just that they tend to say nevermind when something is not clear to me but more often when I don't have my hearing aids. Most families do this. I do think it is bad parenting on their part for not knowing ASL. They have a big family so it is very hard for them to find the time and money all the time. I was talking to them and all, so they think everything is fine. I never told them how I felt because at the time, I felt that my deaf is a disability and it was something I have to accept.

edited: btw, I do not think writing is a bad thing. I think it is great, and I too depend on writing as my form of communication. Just that everytime I write to my family, they take it the wrong way and get upset, because they can't read my emotions (I guess that's why we put smiley faces but it doesn't always help). But when I talk to them, it is not like that. And it take awhile for me to figure out how express myself in writing.
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I can totally understand where you are coming from. My family thinks because I can speak and lipread well, all is fine but when it really isn't. That's why I prefer to hang out with my deaf brother than anyone else although I do love them.
 
shel90 said:
I can totally understand where you are coming from. My family thinks because I can speak and lipread well, all is fine but when it really isn't. That's why I prefer to hang out with my deaf brother than anyone else although I do love them.
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That's the same with me...I still love my family but I tend to hang out with Joseph more than my older brothers and my parents for he understands me better
 
GrendelQ said:
My child could not have picked up ASL in the orphanage in China. She would not pick it up in my house either -- no one I knew was familiar with ASL, myself included. We'd spent months learning Mandarin basics (barely) in our house to meet her needs -- we didn't know she was deaf or we'd have been running ASL videos.

Years later and I'm still woefully behind -- a terrible language model for ASL. Every night she corrects my signing: 'no mama, that sign means camera, this is a photograph.' I'm still at a Signing Time level while she's telling 30 minute-long stories to us in sign while our mouths hang open in amazement. That knowledge isn't my doing -- it's thanks to TLC (her bi-bi school), their ASL infant daycare, their PIP program, their preK. Without them, my daughter would definitely not have adequate access to ASL today and our choice would be limited to the CI for language access.

Putting her into an ASL immersive environment and getting a CI were both interventions, disruptions to her natural state (or rather, state of no action) that provided access to language. I don't think inaction, leaving her be as they had done in the orphanage, was at all an option for us.
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Yes, of course they were both interventions. But the fact still remains that the intervention of the CI was to provide access to spoken language. The CI is not necessary to access ASL.
 
Reading those posts keep reminding to me that some (if not most?) CI-users really are dependent on CIs for spoken language. It's a new perspective for me because I used my HAs mostly for environmental awareness (although now the CI does help me understand speech better). And in terms of not wearing HA or CI, it makes very little difference when I talk/"listen" to people, since I can lipread. Sometimes I don't wear it at all on a lazy Sunday, and people can only tell when they call me and I don't respond.

Anyway, with this new perspective, it makes my jaw drop when I hear about people having no way of accessing to language other than a CI/HA. Although, I suppose they can always ask the people they are communicating with to write, but at a very young age??
 
Daredevel7 said:
Anyway, with this new perspective, it makes my jaw drop when I hear about people having no way of accessing to language other than a CI/HA. Although, I suppose they can always ask the people they are communicating with to write, but at a very young age??
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Same thoughts here. I'm interested in how the very young profoundly deaf without HAs or CIs do or can effectively communicate, if not with sign language. Lipreading and writing skills can be developed, but there's roughly 4-5 years before those are truly useful, right?

Li-Li's just turned 4 a couple of months ago and she's only now starting to write, but not enough to dash off notes to me as we interact. She can read lips surprisingly well (especially if I try to suggest to my husband that it might be time for a surprise trip to get some ice cream thinking her CIs were off and we had the all clear), but while that helps with receptive language, how would a 3-4 YO communicate what he or she has to or wants to convey?

I know it's been done, as many of you point out, you grew up w/out ASL, and I've heard from many parents of children with CIs who don't use ASL that it's either a non-issue or they've found ways to communicate without sound or sign, but I'm wondering what those methods are. The descriptions of pointing to pictures in books that you and your parents set up to tell stories about what you were encountering throughout the day or what you needed is fascinating. Li creates elaborate 3D paper sculptures and walks me through the "story" -- sort of a hybrid of that approach with signing or speaking.
 
but do you think writing, pointing,lipreading, etc is really a good substitute for communication

I don't think many people like to use those methods... maybe temporary but not all the time.
 
Wirelessly posted

Is it any different from an immigrant that only know how to write English? Or a family that has been here for a few generations, but never bothered going outside of their enclaves? They still write English.

It's something we all have to deal with.
 
"it's something we have to deal with" That's what I used to think. Which is why I never talked to my parents about it.
 
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