Zimmerman attorneys say Trayvon Martin was on drugs

[Jiro]

There are no criminal records for juveniles available to the public so you don't know, either.

that's not what I was asking. I'm talking about when Zimmerman spotted him... was Trayvon committing any crime?

As for the confrontation, you made it up since you haven't shown me a police report.

huh? so what do you call it then? a friendly "welcome to neighborhood" introduction?

 

[Reba]

... Zimmerman was a violent predator with a gun, looking for anything to give him a reason to fight.

Are you a mind reader or did Zimmerman confess what he was thinking? Do you have a link for this statement?

 

[Reba]

...probably. after all.... Zimmerman had a gun.... not Trayvon....

Pure speculation on your part. No one has said that Zimmerman approached Martin with a drawn gun pointed at Martin's head.

I'm not saying that Zimmerman is innocent in his behavior but that determination should be made based on facts, not creative speculation. If you have the facts then you don't need to make up stuff.

 

[Jiro]

Are you a mind reader or did Zimmerman confess what he was thinking? Do you have a link for this statement?

His history is very clear to me. It's as clear as 10-pieces puzzle. Having my own opinion about him isn't a crime, right?

1. felony arrests
2. assaulting police officer
3. fired as security guard for being too violent
4. domestic abuse
5. ex-wife filing restraining order against him
6. his life's full of failures
7. studying to be a cop
8. setting up a neighborhood watch and walking around with a gun like a cop wannabe - strongly condemned by neighborhood watch founders, police departments, and legal experts
9. on medications with known side effects such as paranoia, delusion, anxiety, aggressiveness, hostility, hallucination, memory confusion, so on.
10. detective didn't buy his story and wanted to arrest him

that's a good 10-pieces puzzle for me to perceive him as a violent predator with a gun.

 

[Jiro]

Pure speculation on your part. No one has said that Zimmerman approached Martin with a drawn gun pointed at Martin's head.

I'm not saying that Zimmerman is innocent in his behavior but that determination should be made based on facts, not creative speculation. If you have the facts then you don't need to make up stuff.

never said it was a fact. and making up stuff means I'm lying. you don't have any fact to dispute my post so nobody here isn't making up stuff.

 

[Reba]

His history is very clear to me. It's as clear as 10-pieces puzzle. Having my own opinion about him isn't a crime, right?

Not a crime but misleading, especially since you don't preface the statements with "in my opinion" or "it's my belief that." You make statements as though they are facts, and unfortunately some readers might take your statements at face value, as facts, and not investigate to find that they are not facts. You even made a post about "Fact" that wasn't factual.

I think we have to be clear about stating what is fact and what is opinion, as a matter of intellectual honesty.

 

[Reba]

His history is very clear to me. It's as clear as 10-pieces puzzle. Having my own opinion about him isn't a crime, right?

1. felony arrests
2. assaulting police officer
3. fired as security guard for being too violent
4. domestic abuse
5. ex-wife filing restraining order against him
6. his life's full of failures
7. studying to be a cop
8. setting up a neighborhood watch and walking around with a gun like a cop wannabe - strongly condemned by neighborhood watch founders, police departments, and legal experts
9. on medications with known side effects such as paranoia, delusion, anxiety, aggressiveness, hostility, hallucination, memory confusion, so on.
10. detective didn't buy his story and wanted to arrest him

that's a good 10-pieces puzzle for me to perceive him as a violent predator with a gun.

I hope you never serve on a jury.

BTW, you have only 10 pieces of a 1800-piece puzzle; the picture is not yet complete.

 

[Jiro]

Not a crime but misleading, especially since you don't preface the statements with "in my opinion" or "it's my belief that." You make statements as though they are facts, and unfortunately some readers might take your statements at face value, as facts, and not investigate to find that they are not facts. You even made a post about "Fact" that wasn't factual.

I think we have to be clear about stating what is fact and what is opinion, as a matter of intellectual honesty.

If I'm stating it as a fact, then I would clearly spell it out as I did in Post #30.

This is a forum.... all posts are automatically assumed as an opinion unless otherwise noted.

Nothing misleading on my part.

 

[Jiro]

I hope you never serve on a jury.

but I'm not in a jury.

BTW, you have only 10 pieces of a 1800-piece puzzle; the picture is not yet complete.

That's ok. I could care less because he should never ever left his car... he should never ever got involved.... he should never approached him since he did not witness any crime...

beside we're not in a court. you are free to wait and see and I am free to be a jury in here because after all... this is a forum. none of us are serving as Zimmerman's jurors so you don't have to try to sequester us

 

[Reba]

March 28, 2012
"... The Sanford police report from the night of the shooting lists Zimmerman at 5'9". The police surveillance video, recently shown on ABC National News shows a fairly slender George Zimmerman the night of the attack. A close friend of Zimmerman, Joe Oliver, says Zimmerman is 5'8" and currently only weighs 170 pounds.

The police estimated Trayvon at 6'0" and 160 pounds when they wrote the police report the night he was shot. This was probably a conservative estimate, as his family has reported his height at 6'2"...."
George Zimmerman weighs 170#; Trayvon Martin 160# - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com

Also, in his shirtless photos, Martin appears to have a muscular build.

Again, that doesn't make the actions of Zimmerman right but it shows that if anything, Martin probably had the physical advantage in a fist fight.

 

[Jiro]

March 28, 2012
"... The Sanford police report from the night of the shooting lists Zimmerman at 5'9". The police surveillance video, recently shown on ABC National News shows a fairly slender George Zimmerman the night of the attack. A close friend of Zimmerman, Joe Oliver, says Zimmerman is 5'8" and currently only weighs 170 pounds.

The police estimated Trayvon at 6'0" and 160 pounds when they wrote the police report the night he was shot. This was probably a conservative estimate, as his family has reported his height at 6'2"...."
George Zimmerman weighs 170#; Trayvon Martin 160# - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com

Also, in his shirtless photos, Martin appears to have a muscular build.

Again, that doesn't make the actions of Zimmerman right but it shows that if anything, Martin probably had the physical advantage in a fist fight.

fist vs gun.

not quite an advantage...

 

[Reba]

fist vs gun.

not quite an advantage...

At the time of confrontation, neither knew whether or not the other was armed.

According to the reports, Zimmerman drew his gun after he was physically overpowered by that fist.

I'm not saying Zimmerman was right to follow Martin. However, once Martin started beating on Zimmerman, what should Zimmerman have done to defend himself if his physical strength wasn't enough to escape?

 

[Jiro]

At the time of confrontation, neither knew whether or not the other was armed.

and prior to confrontation, Zimmerman did not witness or observe any crime committed by Trayvon. as far as I'm concerned... he was seeing things.

According to the reports, Zimmerman drew his gun after he was physically overpowered by that fist.

so that's what he said.... and given his violent history plus his irrational behavior... I think he already got his gun out. who knows?

I'm not saying Zimmerman was right to follow Martin. However, once Martin started beating on Zimmerman, what should Zimmerman have done to defend himself if his physical strength wasn't enough to escape?

Martin was within his rights to defend himself from Zimmerman and Zimmerman already lost a legal rights to self-defense by being an aggressor first.

 

[CrazyPaul]

fist vs gun.

not quite an advantage...

Suppose that you have a gun on you and someone beat you up to death, what would you do? Would you let him kill you or take your gun out and shoot him? I believe that I have asked you those questions before in older thread but you always talked off point (like not getting out of the car and other bullshits). Oh well, I don't expect your straight-forward answer this time, either.

 

[Jiro]

Suppose that you have a gun on you and someone beat you up to death, what would you do? Would you let him kill you or take your gun out and shoot him? I believe that I have asked you those questions before in older thread but you always talked off point (like not getting out of the car and other bullshits). Oh well, I don't expect your straight-forward answer this time, either.

I believe I've given you a straight-forward answer but it does appear that you are still very confused.

If I were walking home from grocery and I was confronted by a hostile man... I am well-within my legal rights to defend myself.

If I were chasing a man to confront him, I am not within my legal rights to defend myself since I am the aggressor in this scenario. The law is very clear about this.

Do you understand that when a citizen is carrying a concealed weapon, he does not get involved in any potentially-hostile situation? in fact - he avoids it at all cost. Did Zimmerman avoid it? nope. Did Zimmerman have a legal rights to armed self-defense by inviting himself to a danger? nope.

 

[Reba]

and prior to confrontation, Zimmerman did not witness or observe any crime committed by Trayvon. as far as I'm concerned... he was seeing things.

That doesn't relate to my statement. Oh, well.

so that's what he said.... and given his violent history plus his irrational behavior... I think he already got his gun out. who knows?

Forensics knows.

Also, common sense. If Martin had a gun pointed at him, how was he able to assault Zimmerman?

Martin was within his rights to defend himself from Zimmerman and Zimmerman already lost a legal rights to self-defense by being an aggressor first.

I didn't ask anything about legal rights.

I asked how Zimmerman could PHYSICALLY (NOT LEGALLY) escape Martin's beating. So, I'll try again.

Once Martin overpowered Zimmerman, had him on the ground and was beating him, what should Zimmerman had done in order to escape?

This is not a legal question but a practical one.

 

[Jiro]

That doesn't relate to my statement. Oh, well.


Forensics knows.

Also, common sense. If Martin had a gun pointed at him, how was he able to assault Zimmerman?

Trayvon wasn't going to die like a dog.

I didn't ask anything about legal rights.

I asked how Zimmerman could PHYSICALLY (NOT LEGALLY) escape Martin's beating. So, I'll try again.

Once Martin overpowered Zimmerman, had him on the ground and was beating him, what should Zimmerman had done in order to escape?

none.

This is not a legal question but a practical one.

a practical one would be... STAY IN YOUR VEHICLE! he automatically and already lost his rights to self-defense just by chasing him.

it was a considerable distance from his car to where Trayvon got shot.

 

[CrazyPaul]

and prior to confrontation, Zimmerman did not witness or observe any crime committed by Trayvon. as far as I'm concerned... he was seeing things.

GZ called 911 because he suspected that TM was going to break in.

TM didn't like to be watched so he got pissed off and confronted GZ unexpectedly before the attack.

 

[Jiro]

GZ called 911 because he suspected that TM was going to break in.

therefore.... Zimmerman was paranoid, delusional, and confused.

TM didn't like to be watched so he got pissed off and confronted GZ unexpectedly before the attack.

it was a considerable distance from his car to where Trayvon got shot. watched? more like chased. Trayvon wasn't going to go down like a dog. He was going to stand his ground with his fists and Zimmerman shot him down.

 

[Reba]

Trayvon wasn't going to die like a dog.

none.

a practical one would be is... STAY IN YOUR VEHICLE! he automatically and already lost his rights to self-defense just by chasing him.

it was a considerable distance from his car to where Trayvon got shot.

One more time.

If a guy has someone on the ground and is beating that person to a pulp, and that person can't physically get away but he does have a gun on his person, what should he do?

From your response it seems you suggest to just lie there and take a beating, perhaps even a fatal beating.

Remember, I'm not asking about "rights" or legal defense.