Young mother to a deaf 2 year old

deafdyke said:
.. Imagine if hearing people didn't see being dhh as bad or a limitation or a deflect, but just another way of being.
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You really cannot compare the two.
Being gay is a way of being. Being deaf can be handled as a way of being, but in the end, not being able to hear is limiting your ability to communicate with many other people.
To solve that, you can learn signlanguage and communicate only with people that speak the same language.. but still having the communication problems with the rest of the world.
Another option is to hear again. This will make it a lot easier to communicate with the rest of the world, and you can still learn signlanguage and communicate with people that cannot hear.

With deafness, there are option. With being gay there are not.

And of course, the way society looks at gay or deaf people makes a big difference as well.. But even if all people in the world would be OK with gay and deaf people... the deaf people would still have a problem..

(btw.. your story about a girl who "really freaked out to realize she liked boys" reminded me of a boy with 2 mothers that got a toy shaving set... and started shaving his legs..)
 
Cloggy said:
You really cannot compare the two.
Being gay is a way of being. Being deaf can be handled as a way of being, but in the end, not being able to hear is limiting your ability to communicate with many other people.
To solve that, you can learn signlanguage and communicate only with people that speak the same language.. but still having the communication problems with the rest of the world.
Another option is to hear again. This will make it a lot easier to communicate with the rest of the world, and you can still learn signlanguage and communicate with people that cannot hear.

With deafness, there are option. With being gay there are not.

And of course, the way society looks at gay or deaf people makes a big difference as well.. But even if all people in the world would be OK with gay and deaf people... the deaf people would still have a problem..

(btw.. your story about a girl who "really freaked out to realize she liked boys" reminded me of a boy with 2 mothers that got a toy shaving set... and started shaving his legs..)
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Cloggy, it is beyond clear that your experiance with dhh people beyond your own daughter is very limited. Deaf people can do anything except hear. you see dhh people as hearing impaired. Your views on dhh people are exactly like the views of a conservative who believe women should know their place or that they are limited. Dhh people are not limited bc they can hear. I talk with tons of voice off folks online...AND I can understand them far better then a lot of hearing people. I know hearing people who cannot even write coherent sentences. For some reason you have it stuck in your head that voice off people are sitting in some Deaf exclusive Charles Dickens style asylum, completely cut off from interacting with hearing people. you also seem to think that people cannot function fully without a sense. WRONG. We can adapt to it, and live rich full lives.
is it the same as a hearing persons life? No, but then again a gay persons life isn't the same as a straight persons life.
 
And cloggy, I think I can compare the two, since I am both and have actually lived being a dual minority in a world of hearing and straight people. My friend Inno says that her dual minority status (she's queer and black) has a lot of similarities too.
 
deafdyke said:
Cloggy, it is beyond clear that your experiance with dhh people beyond your own daughter is very limited. Deaf people can do anything except hear. you see dhh people as hearing impaired.
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My experience is with my daughter. Any yes. I see deaf and hard-of-hearing people as hearing impaired. Aren't they?
deafdyke said:
Your views on dhh people are exactly like the views of a conservative who believe women should know their place or that they are limited. Dhh people are not limited bc they can hear.
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I agree. It's because they are hearing impaired.
deafdyke said:
I talk with tons of voice off folks online...AND I can understand them far better then a lot of hearing people.
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Most hearing people wouldn't understand sign language so that doesn't surprise me. Online there's not much "voice-on" so that is not really a good example. There are members here where one can see from their writing that they don't speak, just use ASL and I can understand them as well.. Online, probably not offline. You can pull as many individual examples out of your sleeve as you want, but communication problems are part of the life of deaf/HOH people.
deafdyke said:
I know hearing people who cannot even write coherent sentences.
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What does that have to do with this? I have friends that are gay. I know someone that speaks 9 languages. So what? It has nothing to do with this..
deafdyke said:
For some reason you have it stuck in your head that voice off people are sitting in some Deaf exclusive Charles Dickens style asylum, completely cut off from interacting with hearing people. you also seem to think that people cannot function fully without a sense. WRONG. We can adapt to it, and live rich full lives.
is it the same as a hearing persons life? No, but then again a gay persons life isn't the same as a straight persons life.
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NO.. that is not the image I have. I have met deaf parents on the school where Lotte goes, and I have seen the communication problems they have with other people.
And as much as you love to bring up the gay and feminist arguments... they say more about you than about deafness. Being gay and being a woman might have brought you other issues, but please separate them from being deaf/HOH... Even when discussing the attitude of society towards deaf people..
 
deafdyke said:
And cloggy, I think I can compare the two, since I am both and have actually lived being a dual minority in a world of hearing and straight people. My friend Inno says that her dual minority status (she's queer and black) has a lot of similarities too.
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:roll: No you cannot.
The absence or loss of a sense cannot be compared with gender and sexual preferences. Because, that would mean that a straight male who is deaf would have different problems communicating that a gay female... From a communication point of view they would have the same problems.
Society has it's problems with anything that is not the norm. Look at your schools, at the bullying (and the tragic case last week).
The stories I read of schools for the deaf, of Deaf people vs deaf people: Society has a problem with people being different.
 
Bebonang said:
I could not click on the first one that had captioned. :roll:
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I couldn't see it using the mobile link, but could see video + captions just fine with the regular youtube link -- she's just delightful and beautifully trilingual (at least)! (PS, you have to click the CC drop down option at the bottom of the Youtube frame)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgCky-DQ344]Lotte in English, Nederlands & Norsk - YouTube[/ame]
 
Bebonang said:
In the YouTube, where in the hell is close captioned or subtitled so that I can understand what your daughter was saying? You expect us to understand her by lipreading. Get real. Phfft!
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I think he included both non-captioned and captioned and didn't expect you to have to lipread..
 
Cloggy said:
More food for thought

YouTube - Lotte in English, Nederlands & Norsk (Captionned)

YouTube - VIDEO0024.3gp ( Dutch, no caption)
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This is what I get when I click on the first one:

The address wasn't understood

Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (rtsp) isn't associated with any program.

You might need to install other software to open this address.

Cloggy
You seem to have put this up using some software that is not common in the US at least.
 
GrendelQ said:
I couldn't see it using the mobile link, but could see video + captions just fine with the regular youtube link -- she's just delightful and beautifully trilingual (at least)! (PS, you have to click the CC drop down option at the bottom of the Youtube frame)

Lotte in English, Nederlands & Norsk - YouTube
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How did you find the regular YouTube posting? The mobile link is completely new to me and I don't know how to call up the same thing as a regular YouTube item with just this mobile link.
 
GrendelQ said:
I couldn't see it using the mobile link, but could see video + captions just fine with the regular youtube link -- she's just delightful and beautifully trilingual (at least)! (PS, you have to click the CC drop down option at the bottom of the Youtube frame)

Lotte in English, Nederlands & Norsk - YouTube
Click to expand...

Thank you, GrendelQ for putting up with YouTube so I can read the captioned. Very short in English. Probably said the same for Netherlands and Norway language. :hmm:
 
Jane B. said:
How did you find the regular YouTube posting? The mobile link is completely new to me and I don't know how to call up the same thing as a regular YouTube item with just this mobile link.
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I clicked on it,and when I couldn't see it I deleted the m. from the beginning of the link, which brought me to the regular youtube page.
 
Cloggy, your ONLY real life experiance is
Your daughter. You have not had extensive experiences with other dhh people have you?
And no, dhh people are not hearing impaired. You're only impaired if you cannot function without that sense, at all. Formally hearing people, and oral only kids are like that, but not dhh people. We can sign, speech read, type, message, and function in many many different ways WITHOUT hearing.
calling a dhh person hearing impaired, would be like calling a gay or lesbian person heterosexual impaired
 
deafdyke said:
Cloggy, your ONLY real life experiance is Your daughter. You have not had extensive experiences with other dhh people have you?
And no, dhh people are not hearing impaired. You're only impaired if you cannot function without that sense, at all. Formally hearing people, and oral only kids are like that, but not dhh people. We can sign, speech read, type, message, and function in many many different ways WITHOUT hearing.
calling a dhh person hearing impaired, would be like calling a gay or lesbian person heterosexual impaired
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No.. my life experience is much more than my daughter.. It stretches for quite a few years and my daughter is only a part of that for the last 10 years...
And no, I have not had extensive experiments with DHH people. With all your insinuations regarding sexual preferences and strapons, I wonder what you really mean by that. :naughty:

And when you're deaf, you're missing a sense. Your hearing. That means you're hearing-impaired. No matter how you look at it.. No matter that you can do almost anything hearing people can do, and then some more.. You are still hearing impaired, like it or not.

A very wise women told me some time ago (on the subject of comparing deafnes/HOH with gender and sexual preferences):
Gay rights are all about ensuring all things are equal, the same: same laws apply, same social acceptance, same academics regardless of whether you are gay or straight.
Deaf rights are all about establishing a difference: disability laws to protect the deaf, cultural and linguistic distinctions between deaf and hearing, being taught differently.
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There you go... a very good point...
 
Bebonang said:
Because you would not accept your daughter for being deaf. You went ahead and put CI on her just so that she can please you for being hearing when she is not. She will always be deaf no matter what. CI is the same like hearing aid. They are just tools but it is not benefit for them to listen and hear the words accurately. Not true at all. You want her to be involve in the hearing world, period. Did she have any deaf friends that she can relate to like sign language? She will be happy if she does. You are just stubborn as we have been through this discussion for over 6 years. You just refuse to accept us just because we are deaf and we have the experience of what is like to be in a Deaf world. We are telling you our experiences, but you refuse to understand us. You just don't get it. :(
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Bebonang said:
In the YouTube, where in the hell is close captioned or subtitled so that I can understand what your daughter was saying? You expect us to understand her by lipreading. Get real. Phfft!
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Such a nice way of getting back to me..

You mean...
You cannot see a confident girl born deaf that is listning to cues before she can start presenting at a show.
You cannot see that CI is not just a tool?
You cannot see that CI is a huge benefit when you want to listen to people?

You really need to have subtitles to understand all that?

(Regarding the last one: CI would not benefit you because clearly you do not want to listen to people..)

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Bebonang said:
Thank you, GrendelQ for putting up with YouTube so I can read the captioned. Very short in English. Probably said the same for Netherlands and Norway language. :hmm:
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And even here you cannot see the beauty.. Very sad...
 
As an aside I did not have the same problem as Bebonang but thought it best to bring up the caption problem for future reference when it is something that you cannot understand without the words. See below for the posts involved if you missed it. Would not want to miss out on something in the future.

I think you have put up the introducing classmates one before and I enjoyed watching how at ease she was. I just assumed captions were not there because she was not speaking English (understandable given the setting with local language expected) and the probability that it was originally made for local friends and family.

Jane B. said:
This is what I get when I click on the first one:

The address wasn't understood

Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (rtsp) isn't associated with any program.

You might need to install other software to open this address.

Cloggy
You seem to have put this up using some software that is not common in the US at least.
Click to expand...

Jane B. said:
How did you find the regular YouTube posting? The mobile link is completely new to me and I don't know how to call up the same thing as a regular YouTube item with just this mobile link.
Click to expand...

GrendelQ said:
I clicked on it,and when I couldn't see it I deleted the m. from the beginning of the link, which brought me to the regular youtube page.
Click to expand...

Cloggy said:
Such a nice way of getting back to me..

You mean...
You cannot see a confident girl born deaf that is listning to cues before she can start presenting at a show.
You cannot see that CI is not just a tool?
You cannot see that CI is a huge benefit when you want to listen to people?

You really need to have subtitles to understand all that?

(Regarding the last one: CI would not benefit you because clearly you do not want to listen to people..)

-----------

And even here you cannot see the beauty.. Very sad...
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Jane B. said:
As an aside I did not have the same problem as Bebonang but thought it best to bring up the caption problem for future reference when it is something that you cannot understand without the words. See below for the posts involved if you missed it. Would not want to miss out on something in the future.

I think you have put up the introducing classmates one before and I enjoyed watching how at ease she was. I just assumed captions were not there because she was not speaking English (understandable given the setting with local language expected) and the probability that it was originally made for local friends and family.
Click to expand...
Glad you liked it.
I noticed the "m" before the web address on the two video's. Perhaps they were put there when I posted the video's using the ipad.
As Grendel pointed out, removing the "m" brings you to the normal video.

Regarding the Caption.. I captioned one (or two) of the video's. Quite some work but I enjoyed it. But (as you guessed) not something to do for the couple of people watching it. And yes, the presentation in in Norwegian... Captioning is of no importance.. It's the "performance" that is important.

Caption or not, if you cannot see that this deaf girl using CI is comfortable with them, and comfortable enough to speak in front of a huge audience (Lots of children, mom's, dad's) then there's something wrong with you.

Apparently Bebonang needs to have not only sound, but also English in order to appreciate what this girl is doing...
How much hate for technology do you need to have in order to fail to see the child..??
 
Cloggy said:
No.. my life experience is much more than my daughter.. It stretches for quite a few years and my daughter is only a part of that for the last 10 years...
And no, I have not had extensive experiments with DHH people. With all your insinuations regarding sexual preferences and strapons, I wonder what you really mean by that. :naughty:

And when you're deaf, you're missing a sense. Your hearing. That means you're hearing-impaired. No matter how you look at it.. No matter that you can do almost anything hearing people can do, and then some more.. You are still hearing impaired, like it or not.

A very wise women told me some time ago (on the subject of comparing deafnes/HOH with gender and sexual preferences):


There you go... a very good point...
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you keep contradicting yourself on your experiances with other dhh folks besides your daughter. you are also looking at it forms hearing person, clinical perspective. imagine if say we lived in a Michagan Womyns Musicfest (REALLY extreme radical feminism that can be seen as anti masculine)type of world, and males were seen as estrogen impaired and seen as "nonfunctional" Heck, in another century it was pathological for women to want to go off to college. Lot of things were seen as pathological...but what we see as pathological changes over time. AH...now here's a question. why is it that doctors and medical experts generally view a missing sense as an impairment or something pathological, but they wouldn't view for example sharper hearing in the case of blind/low vision or improved sight or IQ as a result of that condition as an impairment or pathological?
WHY be negative about something that is a part of yourself? I don't see for example blind/ low vision people as visually impaired. They don't have vision, but they have adapted to it by learning Braille, using their other senses etc. If you were suddenly transported to a born deaf's body, you would most likely be freaked out at the difference in how stronger other senses are compared to yours.
 
deafdyke said:
you keep contradicting yourself on your experiances with other dhh folks besides your daughter.
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Where?
Really... Where?
deafdyke said:
you are also looking at it forms hearing person, clinical perspective. imagine if say we lived in a Michagan Womyns Musicfest (REALLY extreme radical feminism that can be seen as anti masculine)type of world, and males were seen as estrogen impaired and seen as "nonfunctional" Heck, in another century it was pathological for women to want to go off to college. Lot of things were seen as pathological...but what we see as pathological changes over time.
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You lost me after "Michagan Womyns Musicfest.. feminism... "
deafdyke said:
AH...here's a question. why is it that doctors and medical experts generally view a missing sense as an impairment or something pathological, but they wouldn't view for example sharper hearing in the case of blind/low vision or improved sight or IQ as a result of that condition as an impairment or pathological?
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Finally.. a question...
Answer: Because... you're not missing something..
In health, any loss or abnormality of physiological, psychological, or anatomical structure or function, whether permanent or temporary. Identifying impairments that contribute to a functional problem for a patient is a key factor for a health professional to determine appropriate treatment.
deafdyke said:
WHY be negative about something that is a part of yourself? I don't see for example blind/ low vision people as visually impaired. They don't have vision, but they have adapted to it by learning Braille, using their other senses etc. If you were suddenly transported to a born deaf's body, you would most likely be freaked out at the difference in how stronger other senses are compared to yours.
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Basically.. In your bubble nobody is impaired...
OK.. Glad that works for you...
 
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