World Comparison

[Jiro]

Yes, that´s why I wrote to make sure that my thread won´t lock again.

OH YES it will get locked again!!!

 

[Jiro]

*****deleted to shorten the length of post*****

Jillio - Since you have stated your qualification and knowledge in statistic background numbers of time, surely you should know that the correlation of weapon bans and high firearm restrictive laws that may contributed to a reduction in gun-related deaths is INCONCLUSIVE.

Please read a peer-reviewed paper called The Impact of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapon Ban on Gun Violence Outcomes: An Assessment of Multiple Outcome Measures and Some Lessons for Policy Evaluation. Christopher S. Koper and Jeffrey A. Roth - the Jerry Lee Center of Criminology, University of Pennsylvania found that

"The Federal Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 bans a group of military-style semiautomatic firearms (i.e., assault weapons) and ammunition magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds. Ban advocates argue that these weapons are particularly dangerous because they facilitate the rapid firing of high numbers of shots. Though the banned guns and magazines were used in only a modest fraction of gun crimes before the law, it was hypothesized that a decrease in their use might reduce gunshot victimizations, particularly those involving multiple wounds and/or victims. In response to a Congressional mandate for an impact assessment of the law, this study utilized national and local data sources and a variety of analytical techniques to examine the ban’s short-term impact on gun violence. The ban may have contributed to a reduction in gun homicides, but a statistical power analysis of our model indicated that any likely impact from the ban will be very difficult to detect statistically for several more years. We found no evidence of reductions in multiple-victim gun homicides or multiple-gunshot wound victimizations. The findings should be treated cautiously due to the methodological difficulties of making a short-term assessment of the ban and because the ban’s long-term effects could differ from the short-term impacts revealed by this study."

According to the most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 3,006 children and teens were killed by firearms in 2005, the first increase since 1994 and the first rise in gun deaths since Congress allowed the Assault Weapons Ban to expire in 2004.When 32 people were killed at Virginia Tech and five at Northern Illinois University, the public was outraged. Yet every four days we have the equivalent of a Virginia Tech tragedy that passes unnoticed. Our gun violence epidemic robs parents of their children, wastes our human potential, and drains resources from our health care system.
Children's Defense Fund: 2008 Gun Report

that statement bothers me as you are using Virginia Tech & Northern Illinois University as a cheapshot for your personal agenda.

1. 2 guns used in Virginia Tech massacre - Walther P22 pistol and Glock 19 pistol
2. 4 guns used in Northern Illinois University massacre - a Remington 870 shotgun, a 9mm Glock pistol, 9mm Sig Sauer, and .380 Hi-Point pistol
3. The guns used at VT and NIU ARE NOT classified as Assault Weapons therefore even if Assault Weapons Ban was still in effect, this will not prevent VT and NIU massacre.
4. Children's Defense Fund: 2008 Gun Report - right... lovely... you're using extremely BIASED statement and data from ANTI-GUN organization with deep anti-gun agenda.

Ironic.... Illinois is considered as one of the most gun-restrictive states in America and yet.... this happened.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Jiro,

Again, I asked you question about drug law since you brought drugs issues yesterday. You mentioned about tight drug law and how it doesn´t work. I asked you to explain me what do you mean about tight drug law... Is it for drug dealers? or both drug dealers and drug addict person? Not drug addiction/abuse? Read question in my first post about drug issues.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

so why make a rude comment - "Now I see that you don´t know how to answer my response post over Switerzland"?

I do not see anything that it´s rude or provoking comment but truth because you know there´re high gun owners in Switerzland.

I´m sorry if you feel being offend but I am straightforward and open what I think. It´s me.

I've already answered that question in old locked thread. It's up to you to search for it or not.

No, you haven´t. There´re no Switerzland mentioned in other thread until yesterday. I ANSWERED most of your questions at other thread.

I do not force you if you don´t want to answer my questions about Switerzland because I answered your questions about illegal and legal.

:shrug:

 

[Liebling:-)))]

that statement bothers me as you are using Virginia Tech & Northern Illinois University as a cheapshot for your personal agenda.

1. 2 guns used in Virginia Tech massacre - Walther P22 pistol and Glock 19 pistol
2. 4 guns used in Northern Illinois University massacre - a Remington 870 shotgun, a 9mm Glock pistol, 9mm Sig Sauer, and .380 Hi-Point pistol
3. The guns used at VT and NIU ARE NOT classified as Assault Weapons therefore even if Assault Weapons Ban was still in effect, this will not prevent VT and NIU massacre.
4. Children's Defense Fund: 2008 Gun Report - right... lovely... you're using extremely BIASED statement and data from ANTI-GUN organization with deep anti-gun agenda.

The list, you mentioned is AFTER 2002. Virginia Tech massacre was happeend in 2007, that´s link I posted to reponse your post yesterday. Bush Admin. still not change or tight the gun law. I guess it would be different if Bush Admin. should keep Brady Bill´s gun law.

 

[Lighthouse77]

The list, you mentioned is AFTER 2002. Virginia Tech massacre was happeend in 2007, that´s link I posted to reponse your post yesterday. Bush Admin. still not change or tight the gun law.

I am very close to VT... They knew the shooter had issues a long time but they couldn't do anything about it because of privacy. in another word, he was a legal adult.

Now they want to report any problems they have with the students to the parents until they are no longer consider dependent on their tax status. I say go for it. And make smoking, drinking, driving, and voting up to 21 years of age as well. In fact , make 21 years of age a legal adult instead of 18. (some people say people go to military, they should vote too, and I say, well people shouldn't go to war or anything til they are 21.. but for right now, they need training)

But it won't work because no body like it. Some kids rather go off and get married and have kids and a job.

Anyway, I am all for security in college. There are women who get raped at VT, I hear about it all the time.

 

[Jiro]

The list, you mentioned is AFTER 2002. Virginia Tech massacre was happeend in 2007, that´s link I posted to reponse your post yesterday. Bush Admin. still not change or tight the gun law. I guess it would be different if Bush Admin. should keep Brady Bill´s gun law.

Reread my post #22 especially #3. In Jillio's post - it's about Assault Weapons Ban, not Brady Bill. and read PDF file that I posted in my post #22.

I'm not your teacher. You're adult enough to read and learn by yourself. I thought you're willing to hear both sides, not being an ignorant. Try to read more about my side.

 

[Jiro]

I am very close to VT... They knew the shooter had issues a long time but they couldn't do anything about it because of privacy. in another word, he was a legal adult.

Now they want to report any problems they have with the students to the parents until they are no longer consider dependent on their tax status. I say go for it. And make smoking, drinking, driving, and voting up to 21 years of age as well. In fact , make 21 years of age a legal adult instead of 18. (some people say people go to military, they should vote too, and I say, well people shouldn't go to war or anything til they are 21.. but for right now, they need training)

But it won't work because no body like it. Some kids rather go off and get married and have kids and a job.

Anyway, I am all for security in college. There are women who get raped at VT, I hear about it all the time. Other than that, the outskirt of VT is a hunting areas (the mountains) Where people hunt deers and such.

I attended VT for 3 years. and yes you're right - there was an issue about privacy. A history of mental illness is an AUTOMATIC DISQUALIFICATION to having firearm license. However - there's a loophole... the school cannot share confidential information on students to government. The government can only check for history of mental illness from public/state hospitals, not college. It's a very tricky situation - should college be allowed to report students' history of mental illness to government? Ironic thing is - that would violate FERPA law.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I should mention the outskirt of VT is a hunting areas (the mountains). so it is common to buy guns.

 

[Jiro]

Jiro,

Again, I asked you question about drug law since you brought drugs issues yesterday. You mentioned about tight drug law and how it doesn´t work. I asked you to explain me what do you mean about tight drug law... Is it for drug dealers? or both drug dealers and drug addict person? Not drug addiction/abuse? Read question in my first post about drug issues.

I'll answer that question about drug but I will not debate any further with you on gun issue because it's just repeat repeat repeat. What's the point? Why do you want to upset your lavender flowers?

And can you care to explain me what you do mean "we tightened drug law"?

You should review old threads about drug laws and our news. We have already debated about it. You should know that our Drug Laws are very very strict. You should know that we spent BILLIONS on it and yet - it produced MEDIOCRE result. Many police officers, legislators, and even Obama do not like this drug law.

I want to make sure that you aware the difference between Drug addiction/abuse and the drug dealer. A person who addict to drugs, need a help, not treat them as criminal.

right...... and???? Looks like you failed to see the point in this issue. let me educate you - in drug war/crime (both drug addicts and drug dealers), there are ILLEGAL GUNS involved. Drug Dealers use ILLEGAL GUNS to fight with other drug dealers (or other people) hence GANG DRUG WAR. Drug Addicts use ILLEGAL GUNS to rob people to get money to buy drugs.

How do we protect ourselves from these drug criminals (drug addict/dealer)? We use LEGAL GUNS to protect ourselves from them who have ILLEGAL GUNS.

 

[Jiro]

I should mention the outskirt of VT is a hunting areas (the mountains). so it is common to buy guns.

I especially love your Virginian joke about West Virginia I really had a good time living in Virginia but boy.... Virginian cops are surely strict as hell especially highway cops!!!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Reread my post #22 especially #3. In Jillio's post - it's about Assault Weapons Ban, not Brady Bill. and read PDF file that I posted in my post #22.

I'm not your teacher. You're adult enough to read and learn by yourself. I thought you're willing to hear both sides, not an ignorant. Try to read more about my side.

Yes that´s why I quoted part of your post because I didn´t read your link yet until this evening. I really have no time to read link until this evening. I´m very busy in the office. I quoted part of your post to remind you, that´s all.

 

[Lighthouse77]

I especially love your Virginian joke about West Virginia I really had a good time living in Virginia but boy.... Virginian cops are surely strict as hell especially highway cops!!!

they never gave me problems LOL I think you have been very naughty.

 

[Jiro]

they never gave me problems LOL I think you have been very naughty.

I plead the Fifth

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I'll answer that question about drug but I will not debate any further with you on gun issue because it's just repeat repeat repeat. What's the point? Why do you want to upset your lavender flowers?

Sorry, you haven´t meet my answer and question.

You should review old threads about drug laws and our news. We have already debated about it. You should know that our Drug Laws are very very strict. You should know that we spent BILLIONS on it and yet - it produced MEDIOCRE result. Many police officers, legislators, and even Obama do not like this drug law.

Unfortunlately no, we haven´t debate about drug law but most is legalize gun control law, prostutiue, abortion etc. All what ís majiarine drug to be legalize, that´s all, not very specific about US drug law. I am interesting to learn about US drug law to compare with here in Germany.

right...... and???? Looks like you failed to see the point in this issue. let me educate you - in drug war/crime (both drug addicts and drug dealers), there are ILLEGAL GUNS involved. Drug Dealers use ILLEGAL GUNS to fight with other drug dealers (or other people) hence GANG DRUG WAR. Drug Addicts use ILLEGAL GUNS to rob people to get money to buy drugs.

Oh I see, Your answer meet my question at last. I´m satisfy with your answer to my question.

Here in Germany, Drug dealer is a crime, it belongs to jail, not Drug and Alochol Addiction/Abuse but send them to Rehab for addiction treatment.

How do we protect ourselves from these drug criminals (drug addict/dealer)?

That´s why I ask you how and what US drug law. Your answer is both... I can see why US drug law doesn´t work. I disagree about drug addiction because a addicted person need professional help, not treat them as crime. If they treat drug addict person as crime then they will continue to abuse drug after get out of jail because there´re no help.

We use LEGAL GUNS to protect ourselves from them who have ILLEGAL GUNS.

Illegal gun is the mainly reason is weak gun control law. that´s why gun control law should be tight like in Switerzland and other Europe countries.

 

[Jiro]

deleted to make this post short

All your comments about drug addicts - yep I agree. Obama understands this. I applaud for him to think about curbing down our current, ineffective, costly drug laws especially marijuana. We need to focus on treatment & prevention programs, not jail jail jail. However - here's one question that you did not answer. How do we protect ourselves from ARMED drug dealers/addicts?

Illegal gun is the mainly reason is weak gun control law. that´s why gun control law should be tight like in Switerzland and other Europe countries.

I think we can come to agreement on gun control law. Can you give me some examples of your idea on gun control law to fix the illegal gun issue?

 

[Foxrac]

Did you read Jillio´s 2 links, Foxrac and Jiro?


I am waiting for you to answer my question about drug law, Jiro.

Remember, most gun laws are up to state instead of federal, each state can adopt strict or loosen the gun control.

Murder rate, including firearm related is declining during Bush admin and murder rate is low as in 1960s and Clinton's gun law that has driven murder up in 2001-2002 when US was in recession, Bush hasn't change it until after 2003.

Our society is different from Europe, hear of hip hop and they are popular in US and very aggressive since they use firearm.

 

[Jiro]

Liebling - about Switzerland.... I'd like to say one thing.

Switzerland has a compulsory military service - "Swiss Militia Model." They are fully-educated and fully-trained about guns. There are gun ranges EVERYWHERE in Switzerland while we have GOLF RANGES everywhere in America.

One of the reasons why gun-related deaths was low in USA compared to now was because USA once had a compulsory military service. I don't know if you remember my old post but I stated that I would like a compulsory military service to return in America but in a revised, more flexible version. I'm very very big on concept of Civil Service which was one of the main highlights of FDR's program. I have heard that Obama will promote similar concept.

here's something for you to read - The Wall Street Journal Europe.

 

[Foxrac]

In Germany and other European countries that have tighten gun control, even banned in some countries like UK is one of them, for methods of murder, people can kill with knife, fighting (such as broken neck), non-armed weapons like bats, nightstick, pans and many thing, even people can get guns from black market, I believe that Germany still have black market in somewhere but difficult to find it.

Liebling, Why doesn't you make comment about high murders in Russia and many part of Latin America, gun regulation in Russia is little more stricter than America and you rather to talk about how is bad in America to make us looks bad in public.

There's crime data, from 1960 to 2005.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States#Crime_over_time

 

[web730]

I won't take much of my time following up with this thread issue but just want to say little bit for once.

To be honest with everyone especially you, Liebling that it's the PEOPLE themselves, not guns itself who did murders and killings by using gun as the weapons. So those people are the real culprits, not the guns... that some people who continue complaining about guns and the gun control laws yet those keep forgetting that it is the people themselves who originated, u know better.

I still believe we, Americans ought to have gun rights to protect ourselves although I don't own one yet but plan to buy one someday. I think our government could improve our gun laws bit more to regulate more effective yet it's still our government's job to do that, ofc.

Liebling, I really agree with others aka Jiro that you ought to worry about your country and it would waste your breath debating about our country's gun laws which you think is lax. Yet it's not my business to tell you to stop or whatever you say int he forum, fair enough. It's just too often you brought up with this type of issues (gun laws).

America is America while Germany is Germany, like it or not. But re-mention it yourself that is those evil PEOPLE, not the guns that are the problem(s) after all.