Why do people become atheists?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yeah, God gave the religious leaders instruction how to sacrifice and what to eat and not to eat the part of body of the animals.
 
Well I suppose maybe the term 'agnostic' is not entirely correct in its use.

Most people who believe in "just god' as some mysterious entity call themselves agnostic as to set themsleves apart from total non- believers, such as atheists.

Most popular meaning of 'agnostic' is that one does not believe nor disbelieve if there is God, and most importantly what "God" is.. and we would never know what the nature of God is.

When I say 'I believe in God' is that I believe there is some entity out there that is "higher", more evolved than us humans and in other dimension but not neccessarily it is the way as portrayed in the Bible..
and no it's not UFO either :)

Fuzzy
 
Fuzzy, I didn't know anything about Agnostic until you brought this subject to my attention. Thank you very much and I studied to understand what Agnostic is until I familiar with this. Yes I can see the difference between Atheist and Agnostic. I'm wrong about my parents in my previous posts. I would like to correct about my parents'.. They are Agnostic, not Atheist.

I admit that I doubt either God exist or not sometimes but I try to beleive that God is exist but doubt in me sometimes... Those description match me prefectly and know now that I'm an Agnostic. I consider myself as an agnostic because I didn't think about God all the time or doesn't go to Church or consider Bible as "history" and "story" without study scriputures, and deny "God's law". It doesn't mean that I deny God and Jesus but Bible... Yes I doubt either God exist sometimes.

Like what I say before that Atheist beleive firm for many reasons that God does not exist. They find positive things for not beleive in God which Agnostic doesn't.

What is an Agnostic?
http://www.control-z.com/pages/agnosticism.html

What is agnosticism?
http://atheisme.free.fr/Atheisme/Agnosticism.htm
 
CyberRed said:
Did I say to MAKE people want to try God ? The answer is no. I just said that they DON'T want to try God when they don't believe in Him. Of course, that's THEIR choice, if they don't want to.

FYI, there's only ONE Truth out there and His Name is Jesus Christ... nothin' more. Nada. Everythin' is pointin' to Him. :)
Click to expand...


Yes you suggest in your post that we should "want to try God". It sound that you make us for want to try God... We have but we choose to beleive differently.

I don't beleive that Jesus is a God what Christians beleives in. We beleive that Jesus is flesh and blood human like us.
 
Defee said:
Yes, Liebling, you have told us already but you are missing the whole point.
If you will just look up the Bible and see for yourself that words printed in red that Jesus has spoken and all..so if you believe in God and Jesus, THEY are in the Bible..i dont understand why you have a problem with the Bible, please help me understand..... :dunno:
Click to expand...


Because the Bible is not come from God's word but author. How do you know that it's Jesus's word in the bible? I learn that they change and correct the bibles... (Old to New testanment) Why?

Yes I do beleive the scriputures come from Jesus's word but the author who translate from scriptures differently... Have you notice that the author of bibles have different opinions after translate from scriputures.

I was raised to know that God and Jesus are good heart people until I learn alot that they support death penatly, animal sacrifces, stone to death, etc. etc. etc. Huh? I really don't know what should I beleive? I wonder to myself sometimes either God is really exist or not? I have God and Jesus in my heart but I also have my doubt sometimes...

I enjoy myself to read bible stories like "history" where we come from etc... but God's law? I would not do what the bible says because I know it's not God's word but author's word.



*I have to go home now and will be back for further post*
 
CyberRed said:
Then, how do you know that Jesus Christ died on the Cross, if you don't believe in the Bible ?
Click to expand...


I consider bible as "history" (learn to know where we human come from) and not do what the bible (God´s law) says. This is a difference.

Yes I beleive that Jesus exist with flesh and blood. I beleive bible story but not God´s law and do not follow what the bible says.

Now I ask you the same. How do you know it´s really Jesus´s word in the bible? Can you explain how you prove it´s really Jesus´s word? I mean "God´s law". I doubt it´s really Jesus´s word in the bible since I learn that it´s author who translate from real scriptures to put word for everyone to read..and also change from old to new testanment as well... Why? It make no sense to me.

I found out that religion author who have different beliefs have different opinions after read scriptures and translate. I doubt when you claim that the bible come from God´s word and also claim that christains bible are correct. How you know it´s really correct? How do you know it´s God´s word? Example: JW, Muslim, Roman Catholic or else would say their bible is correct than yours. What should I beleive?
 
Im sorry that your parents or some people in your life have confused you about God and Jesus...
I dont know what you mean about "authors" of the Bible..but the words came from the Lord himself, that i truly believe.
I dont understand what you mean about "changing scriptures"...unless you mean different wording...of course, they did, into different languages for people to understand.
You dont believe that the red words spoken by the Lord in the Bible were for
real? If you dont, then i feel sad for you....I hope in my heart, you will find
the real truth as it is there in the Bible.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
I found out that religion author who have different beliefs have different opinions after read scriptures and translate. I doubt when you claim that the bible come from God´s word and also claim that christains bible are correct. How you know it´s really correct? How do you know it´s God´s word? Example: JW, Muslim, Roman Catholic or else would say their bible is correct than yours. What should I beleive?
Click to expand...

I think the best thing to do is to read and research for yourself. I think that if you do with a prayerful focus on God, you will be able to feel what is right. I don't believe that every religious scholar has been right on everything...their words are not the Gospel but rather opinions.

BTW, despite what some here on AD say, Catholicism IS a branch of Christianity, just as are Protestantism and the Eastern Orthodox church.
 
Reba said:
Anyway, praise God, since the sacrifice of Jesus, we no longer need to sacrifice animals. "It is finished!"
Click to expand...

But there´re still sacrifice animals in islam countries... because they do what the bible says.

BTW, did you know that the Jews sacrificed their animals in a way much more humane than the way your beef cow was slaughtered? Just a side note.
Click to expand...

I will create a new thread and will answer to this.

God didn't require a sacrifice for health reasons. "Health" has nothing to do with the sacrifice that pays the penalty of sin. Only blood can pay the penalty of sin. Plants are not worthy for blood sacrifice.

Genesis 4
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Click to expand...

Huh? What do with obey and disobey when someone offer something valve to show you how thoughtful they are of you? I would be happy if anyone offer something no matter what because they show how much they thought of me.

"sacrifice" is almost similar as "gift" because they show/offer something valuable. It´s nice of Cain and Abel offer something valuable to show God how much they thought of him no matter what but God prefer Abel´s offer to Cain´s offer. It make no sense to me...

Would you do the same what God did to Cain if someone show/offer something value to you? I can´t image that God do not accept Cain´s offering because of disobey... Huh?

And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Click to expand...

I can understand how Cain feel because God do not treat him and Abel fair. I would not do that what God did to Cain and Abel. I treat my children the same no matter what, because I know that everyone are different and have different thought of their offering etc.

Wow, you almost sound like it was acceptable for Cain to murder Abel!
Click to expand...

Sigh! Please use your common sense why Cain killed his brother Abel. Did you know that most siblings killed each other out of jealous because he/she feel being neglect by their parents´s love and feel that his/her parents prefer one of his/her siblings than him or her. That´s an exactly how Cain felt. What the bible says about them sound no sense to me. I would not follow what the bible says because I want my children to be treat FAIR, no matter what. It´s nice of my children´s offering to me because it shows how much they thought of me, not expect something from them.

God gave Cain the opportunity to do the right thing. Cain chose to disobey. Should God allow disobedience? No.
Click to expand...

:confused: What have Cain choose to disobey? I thought it´s nice of Cain to show something value to God. What do with that disobey?

Genesis 4
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

There was no reason for Cain to be jealous. He disobeyed God, so it was his own fault. There was no excuse for Cain to be jealous of Abel, or for him to murder his brother.
Click to expand...

Sorry it make no sense to me. To me, yes Cain is jealous of Abel because God prefer Abel to Cain which it´s not right.

Too much? What was too much?
Click to expand...

God expect too much from people´s offering because he prefer Abel´s offering to Cain´s offering. I can´t image the picture of God do like this. I thought God is happy with people´s offering no matter what. It shows how much they thought of him. It´s not just Cain and Abel, but more... God tests Abraham´s faith... he got him to kill his son... and more .. .etc... I would not test anyone for their faith but trust their faith.

That's why you are not God.
Click to expand...

Yes

Isaiah 55:8
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Huh?


Sorry, I can´t see the sense why anyone worship the bible because of God´s law/word.
 
About God's law and Jesus, no different denominations and catholic does not change scriptures, but translate, there are so few different translations error, I mean very few, but how they intrepret is different, but most are the same as of basics, Jesus is fully God and fully man, Deity, Incarnate. He is God's Son, He wasn't born into new life, He's with the Father before and after, As u may not know, as Jesus said He isn't come to this world to condemn the world, but save those who are lost. He also said He didn't come to remove the law, but to fulfill it. All the laws against us is upon the cross and Jesus set us free. Not denominations and catholica, but religion taught otherwise. Yes, you need to read the Word og God yourself than what all the the others claiming "proof" of contradictions. Many are trying to draw people away from what God is trying to speak. I don't rely on people, I must rely on the Holy Spirit of caution of who is teaching and teaching accordingly. Not perfect, but sufficient what I believe. Which has the balance of all scritpures doctrine and allow the Lord correcting me every failure I make. And seeing the balance of the Scriptures. As in Book of Timothy chapter 3. So many complaint and claiming its not the way God is as reading the old testament. But missing all the point of the Scriptures.
 
Rose Immortal said:
I believe that sacrificed animals were eaten...could somebody correct me if I'm wrong on that?

I have always believed, about killing livestock animals, that any animal killed MUST be eaten because to do otherwise would be wasteful. And if one kills that animal and it is to be eaten, I do not see that in the same way as I would killing to be cruel. Reba is correct, too, to mention that the method used by the Jews is MUCH more humane than the "modern" way.
Click to expand...


Do you mean they eat burnt meats? They burnt the animal on the altar.
 
Defee said:
"changing scriptures"....
Click to expand...

Where have I say "changing scripture"? I said that the author who wrote the bible.. They translate the word from scriptures. How could you know that the translation is correct?

I would suggest you to compare with different bibles then you will understand and check front or back of bible book who wrote it.


Every religion beliefs have different opinion to translate from scriptures to write the bibles.

Which right bibles should I beleive?
 
About Cain and Abel, you not get the rest of the story. God loves Abel's offering than Cain, not mean God loves Abel not Cain. After killing Abel, God came to Cain and asked Cain where is Abel as Cain said am I brothers keeper? As the story goes on, and notice this, God put a mark on him for protection when Cain going far a way country. God loves Cain and protect him. Cain sacrificed animals and God is pleased. Trying to live up to please God doesn't work, its what God want you to do to bring urself to Him as He can be with you, the reason of division is God is tooooo Holy, and we are wicked and sinful. That's why God taught about sacrifice animals, the blood is the key for remission of sins, no blood no remission, and God can't do anything bec He is too Holy. God wants you. All what u seeing about stoning to death and stuff has the purpose to prevent from sploit (ruin) God's plan. His Holiness burn against sin. That's why all thru the old testament has to do what God told them to do till Jesus came down giving up His glory to become human like us to die and suffer for our sin and took all our sins and penalty upon Himself. So He can bring all of us to Himself. But people made the choice, accept His awesome gift to us or reject Him to find another way and trying to live up to God's standard. Read the old testament its very long, find about how God want them to sacrifice and what to do with meat. Its in there.
 
hottiedeafboi said:
About Cain and Abel, you not get the rest of the story. God loves Abel's offering than Cain, not mean God loves Abel not Cain.
Click to expand...

I never say the word about God´s love for Abel, not Cain but their different offerings. God love Abel´s offering better than Cain´s offering. Would you say to your children that you love your son´s offering better than your daughter´s offering? Of course it would hurt your daughter´s feeling if you say that you prefer your son´s offering. It would make your daughter jealous of your son because she feel that you prefer your son to her. That´s an exactly how Cain feel.

After killing Abel, God came to Cain and asked Cain where is Abel as Cain said am I brothers keeper? As the story goes on, and notice this, God put a mark on him for protection when Cain going far a way country. God loves Cain and protect him. Cain sacrificed animals and God is pleased. Trying to live up to please God doesn't work, its what God want you to do to bring urself to Him as He can be with you, the reason of division is God is tooooo Holy, and we are wicked and sinful. That's why God taught about sacrifice animals, the blood is the key for remission of sins, no blood no remission, and God can't do anything bec He is too Holy. God wants you. All what u seeing about stoning to death and stuff has the purpose to prevent from sploit (ruin) God's plan. His Holiness burn against sin. That's why all thru the old testament has to do what God told them to do till Jesus came down giving up His glory to become human like us to die and suffer for our sin and took all our sins and penalty upon Himself. So He can bring all of us to Himself. But people made the choice, accept His awesome gift to us or reject Him to find another way and trying to live up to God's standard. Read the old testament its very long, find about how God want them to sacrifice and what to do with meat. Its in there.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yes I know this story. Yes I know Cain lied to God after killed his brother Abel.

Yes Cain know he doing wrong and tried to make his mistake good but God choose to not accept it and not forgive him. I thought we are being forgiven for our mistakes, don´t we? I thought God and Jesus would forgive everyone ?


I appreciate for your patience to make your posts here... :thumb:


 
Liebling:-))) said:
Sorry, I can´t see the sense why anyone worship the bible because of God´s law/word.
Click to expand...
Liebling, I appreciate your bravery in stating what you believe and why. It is hard for some Christians to understand that one can be Christian, but not see the Bible as the literal word of God. I enjoy reading the Bible, but its more important for me to have a personal relationship with God and be guided more specifically as an individual.
 
Liebling, u overlook, as u said that God didn't forgive him, yes, God DID forgive Cain. And again, u not getting the picture about the sacrifice. Its not about what Cain and Abel did itself, its a sacrifice itself what God prefer, not by God loves Abel not Cain. Its about the way they sacrifice, fruit and veg will not get you to God, the blood is. That's the whole point of the story.
 
^Angel^ said:
There will be some people that will have difficult understanding the words in the Bible, and I happen to be one of them, that why Roadrunner got me the New Living Translation and it much more easier to understand than the others...


It takes time to understand what God really meant to say in the Bible....
Click to expand...
Yes, i understand what you are saying, Angel..there are new and better Bibles that are easier to understand like the one i got, "The Living Bible, Paraphrased". The Bible writers often used idioms and patterns of thought that are hard for us to follow today so this new version is written in understandable English. So if you got this new "New Living Translation" Bible
that is easier to understand, then that is good! :)
 
hottiedeafboi said:
Liebling, u overlook, as u said that God didn't forgive him, yes, God DID forgive Cain. And again, u not getting the picture about the sacrifice. Its not about what Cain and Abel did itself, its a sacrifice itself what God prefer, not by God loves Abel not Cain. Its about the way they sacrifice, fruit and veg will not get you to God, the blood is. That's the whole point of the story.
Click to expand...

You are correct.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top