Why adults choose CI's for their children

[Cloggy]

Neecy lost her hearing to deaf when she was 9 years old.

So... "she isn't deaf" or "she can't hear"?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

your point? I can't offer an opinion or ask for clarification of posts already made here because I lost my hearing when I was 9?

I have no idea why you are upset with my posts. I see no problem to have your opinion offer, etc but I only remind Cloggy that you was hearing for 9 years, that´s why you have no problem to familiar with sounds which different from deafs from birth. Right?

 

[Cheri]

NO no no.
I went through your articles and could not find a place where it said that this included CI-children.

You provided 3 links, then put a quote under it as if it comes from any of those links, but I cannot find it. I'll keep on trying but you cannot just give up because you can't answer the question.
Show me....... OK found it.. still looking for CI....

You think those articles don't know that hearing parents implanted their deaf children? Oh come on.

Eighty to ninety per cent of children born deaf are born to hearing parents and it is usually the parents who decide whether or not to implant their child. Often these parents have had no exposure to deafness, let alone to Deaf or hearing-impaired people.

"While dramatic changes are never guaranteed, they are always hoped for. How will the child and the parents react to average or below average audiological outcome or one that does not translate into accelerated educational or psychosocial progress? Will they feel like a failure or that they have wasted the family's finances, time, and emotional resources? Will they drive themselves too hard during the long postsurgical rehabilitation phase, neglecting other aspects of the child's or the family's psychosocial development?"

(AAD) believes that the advertising and publicity used to sell CIs reinforces this 'deficit' model of deafness and misleads people into believing that it is a 'miracle cure'.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/cochlear/default.htm

Medical professions, who are almost always uneducated about other options for Deaf children, often tell parents to have their child receive cochlear implants so the child will be more "normal." Since the vast majority of Deaf children are born to hearing parents, they are also uneducated about the options for their Deaf child. They trust the medical professions to tell them what to do.The doctors want to "fix" Deaf people by inserting the cochlear implants. The main purpose of the implant is to move the child out of a linguistic and cultural minority and into the majority culture.

In fact, after ten years of experimentation with the implants with over a thousand children, not one single case has been reported of a child acquiring oral language with the implant (Lane, 1996:395). Implanted children have trouble learning English and ASL both.

http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/creation/kristina.htm

 

[Cloggy]

*Sign* Never mind it's like talking to a wall.

Have a look here
DEMOGRAPHIC ASPECTS OF HEARING IMPAIRMENT:
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Third Edition, 1994

In the adult population, the prevalence of hearing impairment is greater for those who are not high school graduates (i.e., have less than 12 years' education) than for high school graduates (Table 7).

 

[Cloggy]

You think those articles don't know that hearing parents implanted their deaf children? Oh come on. .......

Still no mentioning of Ci-kids in the study.

VERY interesting the quote of Harlan Lane:

In fact, after ten years of experimentation with the implants with over a thousand children, not one single case has been reported of a child acquiring oral language with the implant (Lane, 1996:395). Implanted children have trouble learning English and ASL both.

How can you believe this dribble when I have explained all over that my child learned speech, "acquiring oral language with the implant ". The quote was wrong when he wrote it (1996) and is getting more and more rediculous.

Harlan Lane writes in a superb way about Deaf culture but knows NOTHING about CI.
Even his last article (published last october) was totally missing the point. He's popular by Deaf culture because of his connection with them, and then everything he says about CI is believed by the same persons that worship him.

Again, read Lane to learn about Deaf culture. Stay away from him if you want good information regarding CI.

 

[Cheri]

Cloggy,

I see that you get so senstive when an article of someone talked negative about CI, but again you have no problem discussing negatives about deafness, Just like how you questioned the deaf community, "If we had a child would we want our child to be deaf?" And this gets more ridiculous too.

But, Cochlear implants have not yet prove that the culture of Deaf people can be taken away from them, because now that more hearing parents are implanting their children. Pretty soon in the nearest future, the whole Deaf Culture will be wiped out.

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy,

I see that you get so senstive when an article of someone talked negative about CI.

Which article? I haven't seen anything negative about CI. I'm sensitive because you say that deaf children of hearing parents do worse that deaf of deaf parents. You assume CI-kids are included, I say that they are not. (The go to other schools.....)

but again you have no problem discussing negatives about deafness,

Where have I done this????... come on Cheri, you cannot make a statement like that and not back it up. I have never discussed "negatives about deafness" since I focus on "success of my daughters CI"

Just like how you questioned the deaf community, "If we had a child would we want our child to be deaf?" And this gets more ridiculous too.

But, Cochlear implants have not yet prove that the culture of Deaf people can be taken away from them, because now that more hearing parents are implanting their children. Pretty soon in the nearest future, the whole Deaf Culture will be wiped out.

What are you talking about????.... That's another topic. I have not even been in that discussion....

Why do you change the subject????....

Have you read the article I gave you regarding level of education of deaf v.s. hearing people?

Have you found where CI-kids are included in the studies?

 

[CutePommie]

Then you are really really an ignorant person I have ever seen. Why are you assuming that hearing parents of deaf children are lying? You were NEVER in my parents' shoes when they raised me. Look at me now. I survived and I am happy, thanks to my hearing parents.

Well said !!!! same goes for me I thanks for my hearing parents too they did wonderful to brought me up they dont use the sign languages because the LEA was not allow parents to use signs It was long time ago.. so I am happy that I have good hearing parents ... .. Damn Cloggy eh ... he just wont accept it as to be it !!!!

 

[CutePommie]

Cloggy,

I see that you get so senstive when an article of someone talked negative about CI, but again you have no problem discussing negatives about deafness, Just like how you questioned the deaf community, "If we had a child would we want our child to be deaf?" And this gets more ridiculous too.

Exactly very much so !!!

 

[Cloggy]

Originally Posted by ButterflyGirl
Then you are really really an ignorant person I have ever seen. Why are you assuming that hearing parents of deaf children are lying? You were NEVER in my parents' shoes when they raised me. Look at me now. I survived and I am happy, thanks to my hearing parents.

Well said !!!! same goes for me I thanks for my hearing parents too they did wonderful to brought me up they dont use the sign languages because the LEA was not allow parents to use signs It was long time ago.. so I am happy that I have good hearing parents ... .. Damn Cloggy eh ... he just wont accept it as to be it !!!!

It just shows how well you read posts.... Cheri is assuming that... go bite her!! Have a look here. And since she only believes stuff that is backed up by a link, this must be true, no matter what anyone says on the messageboard.

I do not believe this. I am the parent of a deaf child, just like your parents are.

 

[Cousin Vinny]

VERY interesting the quote of Harlan Lane:

How can you believe this dribble when I have explained all over that my child learned speech, "acquiring oral language with the implant ". The quote was wrong when he wrote it (1996) and is getting more and more rediculous.

I have no reason to doubt the veracity of studies Lane conducted with this (admittedly) small sample size of 1,000 CI'ers. The results of the study as reported by Lane, certainly are not surprising. Back then, and not surprisingly so, the CI regimen did not work for the vast majority of DHH children, resulting in significant language development issues.

It would be nice if Lane could update his research, expand the scope of his studies, and perhaps, write another book in a similar vein to his earlier and pioneering works. It will be interesting to see any differences, observations, and deviations Lane will come up in describing the current state of Deafness and implications for Deaf Culture in the 21st century and beyond.

 

[Foxrac]

Again, CI does not help children to voice, listen and talk itself at all time unless anyone who get implant when 1 or 2 years old so it will be successful for some children, not all children do.

 

[Cloggy]

I have no reason to doubt the veracity of studies Lane conducted with this (admittedly) small sample size of 1,000 CI'ers. The results of the study as reported by Lane, certainly are not surprising. Back then, and not surprisingly so, the CI regimen did not work for the vast majority of DHH children, resulting in significant language development issues.

It would be nice if Lane could update his research, expand the scope of his studies, and perhaps, write another book in a similar vein to his earlier and pioneering works. It will be interesting to see any differences, observations, and deviations Lane will come up in describing the current state of Deafness and implications for Deaf Culture in the 21st century and beyond.

Even in 1996 there were children that allready aquired language.
His last publication was in october, and he stayed away from CI.
I'm also looking forward to his next book.

 

[Cloggy]

Again, CI does not help children to voice, listen and talk itself at all time unless anyone who get implant when 1 or 2 years old so it will be successful for some children, not all children do.

First of all, there's nothing "Again" about your statement. it's a completely new statement.

 

[IslandGal]

First of all, there's nothing "Again" about your statement. it's a completely new statement.

He did post about it in one of the threads.

 

[Cloggy]

He did post about it in one of the threads.

Well, I missed that. It's definitely not in the last 15 posts he made.

 

[SarahsDad]

Cloggy,
Thanks so much. Your reply is important to me since you have been in our exact situation, desperate to make the right choice for your child.

I'm happy that things have worked out well for your daughter and family. It's obvious that you are informed and did not make the CI decision lightly.

Originally Posted by Cloggy
...the reaction in many messageboards will be as if choosing CI means you don't love your daughter "as she is". I always felt as if I had to justify myself towards deaf people that use that argument...

When I posted Reasons Against CI, that was listed first because I didn't want to be misunderstood. It hurts when people assume that a parent's choice of CI for their child is largely selfishly motivated and that the child is not accepted somehow. Those who feel this way, have they ever been parents?


The CI, no CI debate, especially with regard to children is such a heated topic. When I see this, it makes me think, why is there so much disagreement?
I think maybe:
- huge knowledge gaps exist on all sides of the debate, both in personal experience, and factual knowledge.
- what's at stake is extremely important.
- fear.
- win/loose mentality, I'm right, you're wrong, and let me show you why.
- fefensiveness making it hard to keep an open mind.
- misrepresented facts, either accidentally or on purpose. Real facts and real truth are hard to come by. "There is a link to it on the internet, so it must be true!".
- there is no one correct answer for all situations. A Deaf family raising a Deaf child is not the same as a hearing family raising a Deaf child where no one in the family signs, and only 20%(?) of the parents will become ASL literate.


Thanks,
SarahsDad

 

[IslandGal]

When I posted Reasons Against CI, that was listed first because I didn't want to be misunderstood. It hurts when people assume that a parent's choice of CI for their child is largely selfishly motivated and that the child is not accepted somehow. Those who feel this way, have they ever been parents?

Some of us including me who have spoke out our opinions are parents.

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy,
Thanks so much. Your reply is important to me since you have been in our exact situation, desperate to make the right choice for your child..............
The CI, no CI debate, especially with regard to children is such a heated topic. When I see this, it makes me think, why is there so much disagreement?
I think maybe:
- huge knowledge gaps exist on all sides of the debate, both in personal experience, and factual knowledge.
- what's at stake is extremely important.
- fear.
- win/loose mentality, I'm right, you're wrong, and let me show you why.
- fefensiveness making it hard to keep an open mind.
- misrepresented facts, either accidentally or on purpose. Real facts and real truth are hard to come by. "There is a link to it on the internet, so it must be true!".
- there is no one correct answer for all situations. A Deaf family raising a Deaf child is not the same as a hearing family raising a Deaf child where no one in the family signs, and only 20%(?) of the parents will become ASL literate.


Thanks,
SarahsDad

You are right.
As you might have noticed, there is a lot of misinformation. That's why I feel it's important to inform about my own experiences, and I hope you will stay here and do the same.

A big problem is that when someone says "I don't like doctors drilling in the brain of a baby." there often is no reaction, and therefore it would be true. I am here to react straight away to prevent that this misinformation stay's without correction.
Often, the explanation is just ignored and it will pop up a in the next thread.

You might have seen that there is also great information. People sharing their experience and telling deaf people unfamiliar to CI what it is like. Some might listen, some will just ignore it and keep believing what they assume is right.
Most of the time, they do that because of the fear of the unknown. Imagine that your whole life you have been working hard to accept your deafness, and then someone say's "My daughter doesn't have to accept her deafness because I gave her CI." Their world will be upside down. All this work they had to do in hteir life, and now there are other options that they did not have. As said, this is not the normal situation but at times this is probably true.

But have a look at the thread where misconceptions regarding CI are discussed (here)
The only reaction was that no link was provided.
So, good information is just ignored. It's not discussed because that would mean you would have to read what it says. That would be dangerous because it would show that you were wrong. Better not to read it and stick to the personal believes. When you haven't read anything that contradicts your belief, it must be correct. And the best way to hold on to those idea's is..... not to read any opposing information....

Anyway. Stay in this messageboard and keep me informed about your daughter. From what I read from you, her dad is making a very informed decision. She's a lucky girl.

 

[Cloggy]

Some of us including me who have spoke out our opinions are parents.

And it is appreciated. Most of the people are parents.
So, how come that a parent who loves his daughter more than anything else has to defend himself regarding his love for his child.

As a parent, it should be obvious that the child is loved beyond anything. Nobody should feel the need to make that obvious.
As a hearing parent I cannot feel how a deaf parent feels, and vice versa, but the love for our child is universal.

And of course there are examples where parents rejected the child because of it's deafness, or ignored the deafness, pretending that it was not real. But those parents are not fit to be called parents. And any comparison between them and hearing parents on this forum, or assumption that all parents are like that are an insult.