Why adults choose CI's for their children

[Angel]

Yep, Audists are telling everyone that there is nothing wrong with CI.

Don't you agree?

Yes because I see nothing wrong with deaf people being implanted with CI,


I'm sorry but I don't understand what were you trying to come across here?

 

[rockdrummer]

Yep, Audists are telling everyone that there is nothing wrong with CI. Don't you agree?

Mookie, Audists by definition are not good people. They live on both sides of the fence (deaf and hearing). I think that folks here are smart enough to recognize an Audist by the way they choose their words. I am not saying you are doing this but I would not classify someone that believes in a CI as an audist either.

Thank you.

 

[Cloggy]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here. My beautiful little girl Sarah just turned two. She is profound bilateral deaf and currently using hearing aids. As yet, hearing aids have not helped much. Sarah's mom and I are both hearing and are trying to decide if CI is right for our family. We're grateful for forums like this on the internet, and we'd like to share our thoughts and get your feedback. Please forgive in advance if anything we think offends you, as this is a sensitive subject. We're learning and still ignorant in many areas, especially Deaf Culture.

Hi,
I’m the father of a now-3½ yaer old girl, born deaf in august 2002. We have chosen for her to have CI, and in fact were offered bilateral CI in one surgery – which we gladly took.
Your list is very good, in fact, it deserves to be in it’s own thread.
I’ll go through it and give my thoughts on the list that you gave.

1. Sarah is beautiful just as she is. She doesn't need "fixing"!
This is an emotional reason. It’s very powerful because the reaction in many messageboards will be as if choosing CI means you don’t love your daughter “as she is”. I always felt as if I had to justify myself towards deaf people that use that argument, but it’s a waist of breath to try that. I love my daughter as she was born, and just as much now.
2. If implanted, will she be rejected by some in the Deaf community?
I have seen a “no” reaction, but from deaf people I have also heared other stories. It depends. But I have read about childcare for deaf children where there’s a strong Deaf-feeling. There, sign will be the main way to teach children and this does not help children with CI. They will be the odd one out, since if they can sign, they have this thing on their head for no reason. If they cannot sign, they are out anyway. For us, my daughter is on a deaf-kindergarten where there are many CI-kids. (She can sign, but also uses speech, depending on who she’s speaking to.) We now see that the sign/speak environment offers too little speech-challenges, so we will use a all-speaking kindergarten 3 day in the week from next fall.
3. Despite our best efforts, will she resent our choice for her when she is older?
Well, at age 15, they all do… No just kidding. But the opposite might be true as well. She might love ou for the choice you made. Or, if the choice is NOT made, she might resent you for that….
I would follow your best judgment in that. For us, we are sure that she will see that we gave her possibilities. She can decide what to do with it.
4. It could be a failure and offer no benefit.
It could be, but it’s not very likely. Screening is such that normally the benefits are there. I wouldn’t focus on this.
5. Surgery has risks.
It has… But I do not recall a death due to this operation. Obviously, other problems might come up, but normally there should not be any. My daughter drove a tricycle 6 hours after the operation… talk about stress for us. (We couldn’t stop her…. She was tooo happy.)
6. CI may make it impossible for future treatment like stem cell or other research, (unlikely soon, but who knows?).
True… For us we did think about it because of bi-lateral CI. (Otherwise, you still have 1 ear available for this.) but the main importance is to develop speech as soon as possible. If she would not have developed that in her first 6 years, stem-cell would have limited results as well. Remember, hearing doesn’t mean understanding… that is developed after hearing is established.
7. Dependence on a technological device.
That will happen anyway. Being deaf means being woken up by technological devices. And interpreters, etc. There will be dependence anyway.
8. Assuming a CI "success", what if the device fails years after becoming dependant on it?
Why would it?... but OK… she’ll be deaf. She would have to change to deafness and this will be tough for a child that has heared before. But it happens all the time with children that loose hearing, and they cope. Question is…. Is that a reason to withhold sound now?
9. Sarah could end up Not Hearing, and at the same time Not Deaf.
That I believe is the case. I feel that since she has the possibility to hear, even though she’s without sound when CI is off, she’ll grow up with a different image than deaf people or hearing people. But for her it will be normal, just like for my daughter. She loved to hear, but is not in panic when sound falls away.
10. Our greatest desire is for our daughter to be happy, and we believe happiness is more a result of good character and right thinking, and has little to do with whether one is Hearing or Deaf. Hearing is ok. Deaf is ok. Is CI necessary?
Not for being happy perhaps. Perhaps, because when I see how her grandparents interact with her now, how she enjoys sounds – the hearing experience, I feel that she can enjoy more facets of life now that she would be able without CI. But CI will not make her happy

Our Thoughts For CI
1. The hope that Sarah will acquire spoken language and be able to communicate with the other 99% of the population without an interpreter or other device.
I have the same hope for my daughter. Because, in our own little family, sign language would be fine. But there’s friens, family and like you say, the rest of the world.
2. The hope that Sarah will be able to deeply interact with her whole family. I read that something like 80% of hearing parents of deaf children are not ASL proficient. That floors me, but sadly it's not unbelievable. If parents aren't ASL literate, what about everyone else in the family? We learn so much from communication with family members and we very much want that for Sarah.
Exactly. But ASL is like any other foreign language. It has to be learned. For our family, we are Dutch, living in Norway. We speak dutch, English, german, some French, Norwegian and lately sign. Our kids speak dutch and Norwegian (and some sign). So for us, learning a new language is no big deal… well, getting bigger with age, but OK.

3. Education. Sarah can reach the highest levels of education without hearing, however the statistics say this is difficult.
I also believe that. Deaf people can reach any level that hearing people can… however, statistics show that fewer deaf people do compared to hearing people. The system is still geared towards hearing, since more than 99% of the population is hearing.
4. Telephone communication without relay service listening.
Using telephone is a goal. My daughter recognizes voices when on the speakerphone, which at her age is very good. Hearing – or deaf.
5. Music.
I can say she enjoys it. Loves rhymes, songs, and does it herself. Still a bit early of how much she will enjoy later on.
6. Seeing other successful CI implant users, will my daughter resent the fact that we didn't do everything medically possible to give her access to spoken communication and sound.
I wouldn’t have blamed my daughter if that had been her future. But parents make the decision for the child. CI or not, it should be the best decision at the time, but with the focus on the future.
7. If we wait till Sarah is old enough to make her own intelligent decision, a huge opportunity is missed, since language acquisition is critical early in life. As parents we have the awesome responsibility to choose for our child, until she is able to intelligently choose for herself.
Agree. That’s why we made the choice for her.
8. If Sarah hates the CI, can't she just choose not to wear it when she is mature enough to make the decision? We would respect her choice in a heartbeat.
She could. She would have lived with sound for a long time already, but yes, she could. She could even have the electrodes removed, becoming deaf without the choice to hear.
9. Hearing aids are used and widely accepted by both hearing and Deaf culture, please correct if wrong. Isn't a CI just another type of hearing aid? Of course a CI requires surgery to implant (no small thing), but if surgery is the only issue here, then what is the controversy?
CI starts where HA’s cannot be used. Also, the provide hearing over a flatter range than HA’s. But when someone can hear with HA’s, they (normally) are not candidates for CI. Then again, the threshold is getting lower and lower.
10. Last in importance and a purely selfish desire to be able to sing my daughter to sleep at night and to hear her call me daddy.
A very understandable one, and I started a topic on it. I want my daughter to experience it…. For me, but also for her. Have a look at some of the threads I started…. And do not be discouraged by the negative feedback of some.

We both love our daughter, no matter what. We just want the best for them.

Regards,
Cloggy

 

[Cloggy]

Hello Everyone!
........The really sad thing is, a lot of my friends told me they would learn sign to communicate with our son, but haven't learned anything. This has shown us that people, even our friends won't learn sign. ....

Hi,
I recognised this. We also had friends started with sign, and they are willing to try. Some went with us to courses.
But you have to remeber, languages are learned by using it. Friens, family (not nearby) will not be using it frequently and so they will not learn it as fast. So, they will allways have a problem understanding the child. And the gap will grow rapidly. after 2 years, my 3½ year old is signing at a speed no friend can hope to understand when they do not use sign daily.

So, be grateful that they try, but you cannot expect them to keep up with it.

 

[Cloggy]

You stated that you just got the hearing aids recently Monday and it doesn't help at all? What do you expect a miracle? Just remember CI nor hearing aids are not a cure to hear, That isn't enough time length to see how far your son would go with hearing aids, I can see now with my own eyes how many hearing parent jumping into getting CI too quick for their deaf children. *shaking my head in disappointing*

HI Sheri,
I have seen the difference between my daughter using HA's (which she wore happily) and CI. One can see quite quickly if HA's are helping or not.

What do you think is the appropriate length of time to try HA's? Should they be worn for 5 years to be sure?

 

[Cloggy]

Here's proof right here, to back up my claim:

[/b]



http://www.nad.org/site/pp.asp?c=foINKQMBF&b=138140

How sad, It always about them (the parents)

You see, rockdrummer? You always say it not the case, why did I found a web site said exactly what I said? Facts are out there, Hun.

So basically, parents like rockdrummer and me are actually LYING because you found something on the internet?

 

[Cloggy]

Hello Everyone!
...........

Do a thorough investigation, and do not forget to listen to your own feelings.

Also,have a look here to get some idea of the nonsens written about CI. That's important as well.

 

[Cheri]

Also,have a look here to get some idea of the nonsens written about CI. That's important as well.

He did not provide no link to back his claim up. What does he know? Is he God? *cough*

 

[neecy]

He did not provide no link to back his claim up. What does he know? Is he God? *cough*

The link is there. Click the word "here"

 

[IslandGal]

The link is there. Click the word "here"

You need to go back to Cloggy's and Cheri's posts and read them again.
You should be able to get what Cheri meant

 

[neecy]

I see what you mean now - I thought she had missed the original link in Cloggy's post, and didn't realize she was referring to what was IN the post being linked to.

this should clear that up- THIS is where the original source came from, on the DeafBase website :

http://deafbase.com/article585.html

 

[R2D2]

That's a great and informative link Neecy. Thank you for providing it. It's a shame we can't make it a sticky on this forum to avoid having to repeat the same information.

 

[Cloggy]

I see what you mean now - I thought she had missed the original link in Cloggy's post, and didn't realize she was referring to what was IN the post being linked to.

this should clear that up- THIS is where the original source came from, on the DeafBase website :

http://deafbase.com/article585.html

Thanks Neecy for the link.

He did not provide no link to back his claim up. What does he know? Is he God? *cough*

Cheri - *Gesundheid*
And Yes, this is Me speaking.... start listning! My claim has been backed up by link, therefore is true and allmighty!

 

[Cheri]

I see what you mean now - I thought she had missed the original link in Cloggy's post, and didn't realize she was referring to what was IN the post being linked to.

this should clear that up- THIS is where the original source came from, on the DeafBase website :

http://deafbase.com/article585.html

Deafbase is a forum, like AllDeaf. Nice try.

 

[Foxrac]

CI can be good in some part, depends on people.

 

[Cloggy]

[Mod's Edit - previous quote removed]

You need proof in the form of a link?
So, a link from NAD when you make a statement is totally true and reliable, but a link to a webside with people actually knowing what they are talking about is not valid.
Or, is it too confronting to read the nonsense that has been spread around regarding CI?

---------------
Regarding your facts:
You said:

Originally Posted by Cheri
I can see now with my own eyes how many hearing parent jumping into getting CI too quick for their deaf children. *shaking my head in disappointing*

Then to show this is true you quote NAD:

Here's proof right here, to back up my claim:

Parents

Parents face challenges when their child is born deaf or becomes deaf. At least ninety percent of deaf and hard of hearing children are born to hearing parents who usually want their children to be like themselves, to understand sound, to use their voices and verbally express their thoughts through spoken language, and to hear the voices and spoken language of those around them.

And your conclusion from this quote is

How sad, It always about them (the parents)

and to really roll into your success you actually say

You see, rockdrummer? You always say it not the case, why did I found a web site said exactly what I said? Facts are out there, Hun.

Facts based on the opinion of an organisation for deaf people, telling you how hearing people think.
And this overrides anything said in this messageboard by actual parents. They MUST be lying!!

 

[Angel]

You need proof in the form of a link?
So, a link from NAD when you make a statement is totally true and reliable, but a link to a webside with people actually knowing what they are talking about is not valid.
Or, is it too confronting to read the nonsense that has been spread around regarding CI?

Cloggy, sometimes you find a hard way to deal with others, if Cheri prefer a link to prove if the entire story or statement is correct by all meanings she has that right...


And yes some people can easy lie and spread false statement and it does happen..

 

[IslandGal]

Cloggy......sigh, why do you have to be so difficult?

 

[Cheri]

I'll try....How about if I found a couple that match NAD link?

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s150097.htm
http://www.ndcs.org.uk/docs/Positive_Practices.pdf
http://www.iacd.oas.org/La Educa 120/schein.htm

Studies have shown that deaf children of deaf parents, on the average, do better academically and seem better adjusted socially than deaf children of normally hearing parents

Typically, deaf children grow up in families whose members are significantly different. Their parents cannot depend upon a major tool used in the parenting of normally hearing children—empathy—for the obvious reason that they are not deaf. Usually their deaf child is the first deaf person with whom they have continuous, close involvement, so they have not had the opportunity to experience deafness even at second hand. Communication within the family is usually difficult. Worse, parents are often unaware of how limited it is. They may become overwrought, even abusive, because they think their deaf child is disobeying them, when the truth is the child simply did not understand what the parents were trying to say.

http://www.deaflinx.com/zapien.html

http://www.deafchildren.org/resources/resource_docs/benefitsofsignlanguage.htm

The common estimate is that ninety percent of children with a significant hearing loss are born to families in which all other individuals use a spoken language. This leaves these children unable to access the full, natural language stimulation that is so critical to the development of language, A history of better test scores by deaf children of deaf parents--as compared with those of deaf children with hearing parents

“For a deaf child with hearing parents,” she writes, “it is vital that parents start signing... though the signing may first be simple and incomplete. This provides the opportunity for the child to start developing language

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling)), Thanks for your careful and pointed responses. It helps so much to hear others experience and opinions.

I don't believe there is any way around making a choice for Sarah. If we choose CI now, well, obviously the choice is made. If we don't choose CI now, and suppose she chooses CI later, then we've made a choice that takes from her of the best opportunity for success, since the first years of life are critical to language acquisition.

How old is old enough for a child to make an intelligent decision. I can say from first hand experience how immature I was as a teenager. If my parents had said "let the boy make his own decision about going to school, you know, we don't want to force him, and besides school is so much hard work and training. He can always choose to go to school when he's older." WOW!, I think I would have ended up in kindergarten at the tender age of 18.

-SarahsDad

I responsed your last post.

Liebling))´s post
Yes, we parents are responsible for our children education and emergency surgeries, etc ...

You talk about school issues which belong children education, the parents are responsible for. You can´t compare school with CI here because CI does not belong to kind of emergency.

Now I have few questions for you since you compare CI with school issues...

Do you make your own decision to buy clothes what you want your children to wear because your children are immature to understand clothes taste?

Do you make your own decision to pick which color and things what you want for your children´s bedroom because your children are immature to understand about color taste?

Do you make your own decision to pick things what you want for your children because your children are immature to understand about their wishes to be fulfilling?


I´m mother of 2 boys... I know their feeling and fulfilling their wishes what I can, but I fix my limit with them. They knows their wishes because they have feeling.

I have a friend who have 8 years old deaf son. She don´t implant his son with CI. She let her son to involve with CI, HOH and deaf children until he familiar with it. He wants to have CI. My friend support his wishes. He is happy. 8 years old is not immaturely to understand what good or bad but feeling...