Why adults choose CI's for their children

[Cloggy]

ok..so means Lotte doesnt need those strobing lights for alarms or smoke detectors that were made specifically for deaf people? What happens at night when there is an emergency and she cant hear and u cant get to her? I would hope that u realize that she still has deaf needs and there are still issues like emergency situations that needs to be addressed. I am not saying u are wrong for getting her an implant and wanting her to experience as much as she can. However, if I am wrong..correct me, I get the feeling that u dont recognize her other deaf needs like the emergency issue if she doesnt have her CI on. While she is sleeping, she will still need those strobing lights and stuff. That is why I get furious with parents cuz they say their child got a CI therefore their child is hearing and do not need any of the deaf assistance devices. The truth is..they still do need them. If I assumed wrong about u, let me know. I am just trying to see where u are coming from and I hope u see where I am coming from.

I understand and I appreciate the discussion. really...

Yes, she is deaf when she sleeps. And in time we will have things like vibrating alarm... And if for some reason she wants to go though life deaf, other things have to be arranged.
Emergency... no, she will sleep through it... so we will have to warn her.
There's 5 people in the house. 4 hearing while asleep.

When she starts living by herself, she will have to get equipment to help her compensate for bing deaf. That will be a couple of years.. 4-year old girls do not tend to leave the family home yet...

The discussion is difficult because I am talking about my 4-year old who has CI from age 2. You are talking about a completely different category.

 

[Cloggy]

When the parents of that child were also unable to walk, they would say:

"Look at us. We're doing fine, and we want our child to be able to experience the same as we are experienceing....."

The same as meaning to hear the same as you? as a hearing person?....

The same as meaning to be deaf the same as you? as a deaf person?

Is that suppose to answer my question?...O-kayyy....

I just said what you said, but then from the deaf perspective.....

People not able to walk..
"Look at us. We're doing fine (not able to walk), and we want our child to be able to experience the same as we are experienceing...(not able to walk)..."

People not able to hear..
"Look at us. We're doing fine (not able to hear), and we want our child to be able to experience the same as we are experienceing...(not able to hear)..."

Hearing people..
"Look at us. We're doing fine (able to hear), and we want our child to be able to experience the same as we are experienceing...(able to hear)..."


Aren't we all saying the same thing..

 

[shel90]

I understand and I appreciate the discussion. really...

Yes, she is deaf when she sleeps. And in time we will have things like vibrating alarm... And if for some reason she wants to go though life deaf, other things have to be arranged.
Emergency... no, she will sleep through it... so we will have to warn her.
There's 5 people in the house. 4 hearing while asleep.

When she starts living by herself, she will have to get equipment to help her compensate for bing deaf. That will be a couple of years.. 4-year old girls do not tend to leave the family home yet...

The discussion is difficult because I am talking about my 4-year old who has CI from age 2. You are talking about a completely different category.

I am

What do u mean I am talking about a completely different category? Now, I am lost.

 

[Cloggy]

I am

What do u mean I am talking about a completely different category? Now, I am lost.

My focus, point of view etc. is as a parent of a newborn, born deaf. I see the effect of it on those children that use CI right from the start. These children often blend in into the hearing society, adapting without problems. Some speech therapy, some things taken care of in school, but these children are no different, sometime can not even be distinguished, from hearing children..
I have see a 14-year old with CI of which the teacher had no idea that she is deaf. These children choose their place in the front of the class and can follow anything.
Basically, I see it works.

You are looking at children that are older, with a history of lack of communication, coming to your school because of the problems. You look at a completely other perspective.
You see how they thrive when they learn sign. Finally being able to communicate, finally being understood.

Question... don't you think that these children would also have these problems when they had not had CI...
The problem is the lack of communication. Not CI.

I agree that parents first priority is to communicate with their child.
When parents do not do this... that's child-abuse.

 

[shel90]

My focus, point of view etc. is as a parent of a newborn, born deaf. I see the effect of it on those children that use CI right from the start. These children often blend in into the hearing society, adapting without problems. Some speech therapy, some things taken care of in school, but these children are no different, sometime can not even be distinguished, from hearing children..
I have see a 14-year old with CI of which the teacher had no idea that she is deaf. These children choose their place in the front of the class and can follow anything.
Basically, I see it works.

You are looking at children that are older, with a history of lack of communication, coming to your school because of the problems. You look at a completely other perspective.
You see how they thrive when they learn sign. Finally being able to communicate, finally being understood.

Question... don't you think that these children would also have these problems when they had not had CI...
The problem is the lack of communication. Not CI.

I agree that parents first priority is to communicate with their child.
When parents do not do this... that's child-abuse.

Many of the younger children (1st graders and kindergardeners) have CIs that they have been implanted with since they were toddlers (I am not sure about infants but for sure toddler-ages) and they have no use of them. I have a 7 year old student who has had his CI since he was 3 and been going to speech classes every day for 1 hour and he still doesnt comprehend spoken language nor can make any words.

Right, many children without CIs have been fitted with HAs and still didnt acquire the spoken language.

Like I said before, we just implemented our CI program so see if we start seeing children that u see and that would be a GREAT balance to our program and those children will have the plus side of being exposed to ASL in the event their CIs get lost, damaged or in an emergency situation.

U are looking from a hearing parent' perspective and I am looking from a deaf person's perspective when it comes to language accessibility and communication issues.

Yea, that was what all these teachers and my parents thought about me when I was growing up. They thought I was able to follow everything but boy did I fool them. Did u ask the 14 year old if they have NO trouble following the class at all? What about when the class is having a large group discussion when everyone is talking at once? Just curious.

 

[Cloggy]

Many of the younger children (1st graders and kindergardeners) have CIs that they have been implanted with since they were toddlers (I am not sure about infants but for sure toddler-ages) and they have no use of them. I have a 7 year old student who has had his CI since he was 3 and been going to speech classes every day for 1 hour and he still doesnt comprehend spoken language nor can make any words.

Right, many children without CIs have been fitted with HAs and still didnt acquire the spoken language.

Like I said before, we just implemented our CI program so see if we start seeing children that u see and that would be a GREAT balance to our program and those children will have the plus side of being exposed to ASL in the event their CIs get lost, damaged or in an emergency situation. I doubt that you will see the children that do well with CI, because they will not need a special school.
I agree that that would be a great balance.. We thought about letting Lotte continue on a mixed (deaf/hoh/ci/hearing) kindergarten, but decided against it. For various reasons.

U are looking from a hearing parent' perspective and I am looking from a deaf person's perspective when it comes to language accessibility and communication issues.

Yea, that was what all these teachers and my parents thought about me when I was growing up. They thought I was able to follow everything but boy did I fool them. Did u ask the 14 year old if they have NO trouble following the class at all? What about when the class is having a large group discussion when everyone is talking at once? Just curious.

We have. She is not fooling the teacher, she's doing very well academically...

 

[shel90]

We have. She is not fooling the teacher, she's doing very well academically...

I did well academically too. Is that how u measure the sucess of deaf children in a hearing school? Based on their academics? What about social-emotional well-being? I identified myself as a hearing person cuz that was the expectation from me and I felt very isolated without knowing why. Looking back, now I do and I realized how much I did miss out. Deaf people are good at fooling people. I just want u to be aware of it. Noooo I am not generalizing that to ALL deaf children who are mainstreamed but just something to be aware of.

I didnt recognize all my issues while I was growing up cuz I didnt know better. All I knew that I felt like something was missing and I was always searching to fill in that void. That void was the need to fit in as naturally as I could.

U said if the children with CIs are doing well, they dont need a special school. What is wrong with the deaf schools? From the way it sounded, it seems like such a negative thing. There is nothing special about our school...we provide the same things only difference is that the curriculm (same as the public school curriculm) is taught in using both sign language and spoken English (as of a year ago). We provide after school programs, sports, dances and everything just like the regular school does. We have children here that are performing on their age appropriate level so that means we should send them off to the public schools just because they are "normal" and dont need a "special" school?

 

[Cloggy]

........U said if the children with CIs are doing well, they dont need a special school. What is wrong with the deaf schools? From the way it sounded, it seems like such a negative thing. There is nothing special about our school...we provide the same things only difference is that the curriculm (same as the public school curriculm) is taught in using both sign language and spoken English (as of a year ago). We provide after school programs, sports, dances and everything just like the regular school does. We have children here that are performing on their age appropriate level so that means we should send them off to the public schools just because they are "normal" and dont need a "special" school?

It's not about what the curricilum is... it's about the means of communication.
We have noticed that she learned to speak and understand language faster in an all-hearing environment. When in a sign-language environment, her progress was much slower. She had a great transition period between the two systems and that worked out very well. That doesn't mean she does not get support. She does, just not in sign..

Had I lived in france, and my children would need to learn french, I would send them to a french school, (after they had some basic french) since a international school might also tech in french... learning is goes slower..

 

[kayla123]

I was born with hip dysplasia. If I hadn't had the 2 surgeries that I needed when I was a toddler, I wouldn't walk. I am very glad my parents made the decision for me to have those surgeries. I am glad my parents did not deny me the ability to walk. Sorry this is a bit off topic, but I just wanted to say it.

Wow, i just brought that up to compare it with something. I'm glad there was something the doctors were able to do to help you walk.

 

[kayla123]

I am wondering if this whole "letting the child choose" debate has to do with the difficulties of a deaf child being able to adapt to the hearing world? Like with someone who gets surgery to make walking, seeing, or anything related possible, there are no issues of communication. When parents expect the deaf child to adapt fully into the hearing world and for some reason that deaf child is unable to accomplish that goal, their language gets delayed and as a result, learning how to read and write becomes a struggle for them. I think that is what deaf people are angry about..the lack of access to a full language. Being able to walk, see, or other physical improvements have none of the language and communication issues. I think that is why there is no debate about giving children surgery to correct those other physical limitations.

That is what I am wondering here..I know for myself, I get discouraged whenever I see deaf children starving for communication or language access at their homes. Yesterday, one boy at my school told his teacher that he wishes he could live at the school on the weekends. That says a lot doesnt it?

What happened to the "How could parents put their young child through surgery just to help them hear" excuse? That's what i was referring to. If it's not thing, it's another.

 

[shel90]

What happened to the "How could parents put their young child through surgery just to help them hear" excuse? That's what i was referring to. If it's not thing, it's another.

Can u rephrase that cuz I must have missed something here? Thanks

 

[kayla123]

When she starts living by herself, she will have to get equipment to help her compensate for bing deaf. That will be a couple of years.. 4-year old girls do not tend to leave the family home yet

Cloggy, by the the time Lotte and Kayla are old enough to live on their own, the entire implant will be internal, no external parts. They have been working on it for a few years now. I was told it will probably be about another 10 years until they finish it. That means they will be able to hear when swimming, sleeping ect. The battery is what's going to take a while to figure out. I was told (by Kaylas therapist) that they are working on something like a headband to wear at night at bedtime to recharge it.

 

[rockdrummer]

When she starts living by herself, she will have to get equipment to help her compensate for bing deaf. That will be a couple of years.. 4-year old girls do not tend to leave the family home yet

Cloggy, by the the time Lotte and Kayla are old enough to live on their own, the entire implant will be internal, no external parts. They have been working on it for a few years now. I was told it will probably be about another 10 years until they finish it. That means they will be able to hear when swimming, sleeping ect. The battery is what's going to take a while to figure out. I was told (by Kaylas therapist) that they are working on something like a headband to wear at night at bedtime to recharge it.

Geeze, that's a scary thought. Plugging a headband into a wall outlet and then going to sleep. I think I'll take a pass on that one.

 

[kayla123]

Can u rephrase that cuz I must have missed something here? Thanks

I mean that i have heard this from so many dhh people. They are so against surgery against babies toddlers, but i make an example of another type of surgery that is not a life or death situation and now it's not about the surgery anymore. Now it's a communication barrier thing. That's what i meant by if it'snot one thing it's another.

 

[kayla123]

Geeze, that's a scary thought. Plugging a headband into a wall outlet and then going to sleep. I think I'll take a pass on that one.

Sorry, i guess i should have made myself clearer. The headband will not be plugged in a wall while they sleep. It will charge up during the day and be used as a headband to recharge the battery at night. I'm sure the idea is going to change about a thousand times until they perfect it.

 

[shel90]

I mean that i have heard this from so many dhh people. They are so against surgery against babies toddlers, but i make an example of another type of surgery that is not a life or death situation and now it's not about the surgery anymore. Now it's a communication barrier thing. That's what i meant by if it'snot one thing it's another.

Did u read my thread "Two things that made me mad this week and really think"?

If not, I suggest u to read it and u will understand where I am coming from about the communication barrier.

 

[rockdrummer]

Did u read my thread "Two things that made me mad this week and really think"?

If not, I suggest u to read it and u will understand where I am coming from about the communication barrier.

Shel, just for clearification, didn't you say that the school you work at caters to deaf kids with other special needs? Thanks

 

[shel90]

Shel, just for clearification, didn't you say that the school you work at caters to deaf kids with other special needs? Thanks

Yea we have a program for deaf kids with special needs and we also have regular elementary deaf ed too. My school has the program while the other campus doesnt. The other deaf school campus and the regular ed program at my school only serves regular elementary deaf ed for deaf children who have no special needs and many of them are on their age appropriate grade levels and using the public school curriculm in all areas.

I work in the special ed dept but I use the regular curriculm but at a slower pace due to my students having language delays. The goal of the program that I am in is to get the children caught up with their same age peers. That's why I get so frustrated that my students' parents wont learn sign language cuz it could make a difference for these kids to have access to language at home. They only get full language access 6 hours a day 5 times a week. The other times they would be lucky to get some. I think that is a tragic cuz my students are bright and have no cognitive disabilities.

Many of the children with CIs who got sent to our school from the public schools start out in our special ed program to give them the extra support they need cuz they will be just learning ASL AND learning how to read and write. They have to learn two languages at once at an older age. No wonder the frustration level for those kids are high and they get a bad attitude about learning itself. That is something we work on preventing so we use different strategies to make learning as little stressful as we can.

We have students with CI in the regular ed program so like I said before I need to ask the teachers how they are doing with their CIs and if they can communicate with them without signing.

 

[rockdrummer]

Thanks Shel. I commend your dedication to these children. I too have some exposure to children with other special needs. These children tend to have difficulties communicating even if they can hear. Obviously each case will be different. Having said that, I wonder if some of what you are seeing is related to other special needs. I won't argue that the parents should do as much as they can but you have to remember, in some cases, there is only so much you can do at a given point. Then you wait for the next milestone and make adjustments.

I guess all I am saying is to give folks the benefit of the doubt unless you know for a fact they are slacking in their parenting. Especially when it comes to parenting children with special needs. From your comments I get the impression that you know for a fact they are not doing everything they can. If that is true then I am behind you 100%.

 

[rockdrummer]

Reading your posts I realised something really important regarding the "letting the child choose" argument...

It is not fair to let the responsibility be with the child... And that is what happens when the parent "let the child choose". It is diverting responsibility away from themself as parent to the child. Rejecting responsibility, avoiding it.

The parent should take the responsibility and say
"I want my child to grow up deaf. Therefore, I choose NOT to operate."
THEN, only then, you take responsibility. And that is what being a parent is all about....

I guess l interpreted a bit differently than you. What I got was; they want to discuss it with the child and make the decision together. I am am trying to understand that position better which is what the thread here is about.