What is "cued speech"?

[Bottesini]

They explicitly say that the child must have a working knowledge of face to face English, which is exactly what you are denying.

So do others of us who learned in the same manner, as we have just told you.

Deaf people just told you how it works. Please listen.

 

[jillio]

They explicitly say that the child must have a working knowledge of face to face English, which is exactly what you are denying.

The English word DINOSAUR contains no conceptual information, and neither would the cue. How is that many hearing kids can learn that dinosaur means dinosaur without a conceptual sign?

I have denied nothing of the kind. You are grossly misunderstanding my explanations.

My son had a working knowledge of English at the age of 3 1/2. He was reading at that age. But he did not have oral skills. You are failing to understand the symbolic nature of language. I really find that odd given that you have stated that you are DoD.

 

[Deafguy25]

So do others of us who learned in the same manner, as we have just told you.

Deaf people just told you how it works. Please listen.

So when a deaf person with a CI tells me that ASL is useless for kids with implants, I should take their advice rather than look at the majority?

 

[Deafguy25]

I have denied nothing of the kind. You are grossly misunderstanding my explanations.

My son had a working knowledge of English at the age of 3 1/2. He was reading at that age. But he did not have oral skills. You are failing to understand the symbolic nature of language. I really find that odd given that you have stated that you are DoD.

I simply said that they need to have a working knowledge of English, in addition to ASL.

 

[jillio]

My daughter learned to read by the closed captioning on the TV. That is, she learned to sound out the words by the captioning. We worked hard but not to the point of tears in teaching her to read. It was a struggle and at 17, she still hates to read. She does, because I ask her to, nicely, but she doesn't like it. She was 9 before knowing how to read. She does read on level with most other 12th graders, but does not totally comprehend. That is a hard thing for her. Her favorite subject? Early American history. She loves anything related to the 1500's to the early 1800's. She also will choose biographies of the President's wives.

Son on the other had, started reading at age 2. By age 10, his reading level was college level. To challenge him, I make him write out "the end of the story in my words" kind of things. It challenges his memory and we work that way with him. He has created his own ending to hundreds of books. Some are wild and wacky and some are totally thought provoking.

And if you encourage the reading of the subject she loves, it will increase her reading skills across the board. I have always said that it does not matter what a child reads...it matters that they read, period.

 

[Bottesini]

So when a deaf person with a CI tells me that ASL is useless for kids with implants, I should take their advice rather than look at the majority?

That has nothing to do with what I and others told you now.

Why are you throwing in this non sequiter??

Are you

 

[jillio]

I simply said that they need to have a working knowledge of English, in addition to ASL.

ASL faciiliates that. It is the foundation upon which a working knowledge of English us built. CS does not address that. What good does recognition of a word do if the concept of the symbol for representation does not exist?

 

[jillio]

So when a deaf person with a CI tells me that ASL is useless for kids with implants, I should take their advice rather than look at the majority?

You are either extremely confused, or making a very poor attempt at trying to twist the topic to make a point.

 

[Deafguy25]

That has nothing to do with what I and others told you now.

Why are you throwing in this non sequiter??

Are you

Because you think that because something worked for you, that it will work for all deaf kids. I showed an example where another deaf person would be telling me what worked for them, and they want it for all deaf kids, even if it isn't the best way.

 

[Bottesini]

Because you think that because something worked for you, that it will work for all deaf kids. I showed an example where another deaf person would be telling me what worked for them, and they want it for all deaf kids, even if it isn't the best way.

It's a commonly used method that works. You previously said that it was not possible.

 

[jillio]

It's a commonly used method that works. You previously said that it was not possible.

Whole language to teach literacy is a method that is used with both hearing children and deaf children, and has been shown to be successful in both populations. I think someone is confused regarding methodologies.

 

[Lily7]

I didn't have a working knowledge of either face-to-face, spoken, signed, etc, any language, really, and I still learned to read. Reading is what TAUGHT me the language. So maybe I was the exception to the rule, but I know I am not the only one and it proves that given the right circumstance, those guys were wrong. Experts don't know everything. You can go back to any point in history and find an "expert" who adamantly claimed something who turned out to be wrong, and there is no reason why that can't still happen even in this day and age.

 

[Buffalo]

Yeah, true, Sign Language helps deaf people more than it does for being able to speak and oral better, but I think it has to do with a bigger problem. It may be more about 'unifying' Americans the simpler way possible.

Look at America's society, they want green card and VISA immigrants and citizens to at least learn to speak the english language if they intend to stay here. American's aren't interested in learning Vietnamese or Spanish to accommodate the new language, they want people to speak their language.

When you have a sign language, it has no real 'bridge' to the spoken english used by Americans, as it is just another language that exist and doesn't help them unless they learn it. So, the concept may have been seen as to patch up something between hearing and deaf so at least the people who have no knowledge of the language can at least understand some of it.

It's sorta like SimCom, if you use SimCom to teach ASL to a group of hearing students, it seems to be a lot easier than it is to go total voice off and teach them ASL. They would have a hard time adapting.

Still... they have all the parts working right while we don't have much of hearing yet they expect us to speak. I have learn to speak but do they return the favor by learning ASL or even PSE? Most of time, no. I see it is like a one way respect and I don't like it.

 

[deafskeptic]

I didnt have full access to English but yet, I learned it by reading constantly. Contrary to popular belief, having spoken English skills is NOT the only way to acquire literacy in English.

If the spoken language is the only way to have good literacy in English, how do you explain someone like my ex-bf who has no speech skills at all but has better English skills than I do?

 

[jillio]

I found something else interesting in the link that Deafguy25 obligingly provided:

One of the important concepts for the educational team serving deaf and hard-of-hearing studentsin inclusive settings is that the primary ‘client’ in this setting is the teacher, and NOT the student.

"Splains a lot, huh, Lucy?

 

[Journey]

Hmmm....I'm not certain about that, since the visual representation is completely tied to information perceived auditorily. If you want to reinforce the kinesthetic properties of language, it seems to me that a contextual approach involving kinesthetics would be more successful...eg ASL.

I understand what you are saying but I think we are looking at from slightly different angles. I was not referring to the kinesthetic properties of language but to the learning needs of kinesthetic learner. Let me try and explain what I was thinking about in my post (note I said "try" haha). Knowing that kinesthetic learners benefit from involving body movement in their learning process (even doing something as simple as chewing gum or tapping their foot during lessons), it made me think that the movement of cued speech could help facilitate focus and comprehension during learning.

 

[naisho]

Still... they have all the parts working right while we don't have much of hearing yet they expect us to speak. I have learn to speak but do they return the favor by learning ASL or even PSE? Most of time, no. I see it is like a one way respect and I don't like it.

I totally get what you are saying, that deafies are putting work in and receiving less out of it. It isn't new that we signers are always oppressed by hearing culture.

I'm kinda bracing in the direction of general society. Let me try a different interpretation.

Would you want to learn another sign language to talk to different deafies? I'm sure you would.

I met a group of CSL signers before, and JSL signers also, they're both completely different systems than ASL, because they use some of the asian characters in sign. Now if you're going to talk to these signers, do you want them to learn ASL or would you want to learn CSL? If we tried using both, there are some bridging problems, like their 3 is our F.

See, that's my thoughts on the american public. If modern America spoke in ASL, with the way they are acting now, they wouldn't want to learn CSL to talk to other people, it's "learn ASL only". Only open minded people would want to learn the other languages. The only thing that would appeal to both sides would be shortcuts like hybrid signs that are the same to both.

 

[jillio]

I understand what you are saying but I think we are looking at from slightly different angles. I was not referring to the kinesthetic properties of language but to the learning needs of kinesthetic learner. Let me try and explain what I was thinking about in my post (note I said "try" haha). Knowing that kinesthetic learners benefit from involving body movement in their learning process (even doing something as simple as chewing gum or tapping their foot during lessons), it made me think that the movement of cued speech could help facilitate focus and comprehension during learning.

I was referring to the needs of the kinesthetic learner, as well, not the kinesthetic properties of a language. Kinesthetic learners still need reading comprehension, and I don't think that CS addresses the issue of concept. However, ASL addresses the needs of the kinesthetic learner, and provides concept. Once concept has been understood, then CS might be helpful in discriminating phonetic differences. But simply discriminating phonetic differences does not lead to comprehension.

Would it aid in focus? Are you referring to a child cuing to themselves while they read, or to someone cuing to them?

 

[AlleyCat]

So when a deaf person with a CI tells me that ASL is useless for kids with implants, I should take their advice rather than look at the majority?

WHAT? Nobody has posted that. You have misunderstood something somewhere. We have been (including those of us who have CIs) saying that a deaf child with a CI SHOULD have ASL.

 

[Journey]

"If you want to reinforce the kinesthetic properties of language, it seems to me that a contextual approach involving kinesthetics would be more successful.." . This is what made me think you were referring to the kinesthetics of the language rather than the kinesthetic need of the learner ;-).

re Focus: the child cuing in response as well as to themselves