US officially ends Iraq war

[saywhatkid]

Yep, I would have been a traitor for refusing to go and kill (and possibly die) so that a few rich motherfuckers could have gotten richer.

I ain't no fortunate son.

Lots of guys went to Canada. I knew a few. I was just young enough to avoid being drafted, but I can tell you that I have never watched a TV show with more interest than my draft lottery.

 

[TWA]

Lots of guys went to Canada. I knew a few. I was just young enough to avoid being drafted, but I can tell you that I have never watched a TV show with more interest than my draft lottery.

Would you have gone?

 

[Jiro]

It's really sad that you feel that way about the American Soldier. Those men and women who have fought, died and been injured for the very freedoms that we enjoy here in America. Without the American Soldier we wouldn't be so lavishly enjoying all of the freedom that we have in America today. Well, the great part about living in America is that you are entitled to your opinion. It's makes me sad that anyone would feel this way! The other great part of living in America is that I can enjoy the freedom to disagree with you! I salute all of the men and women of the United States Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Air Force & Marines (you too Cost Guard!)! I am proud of you all! Thank you families of the American Soldier. I honor your sacrifice too!

do you feel anything for victims too?

 

[Jiro]

??? DU ??? What prey tell are ye talking about? We didn't nuke anyone! ???

depleted uranium rounds are commonly used by our air power especially AC-130, Apaches, and Warthogs to attack enemy's armored vehicles. I have heard of several news about our American soldiers suffering from it.

 

[deafskeptic]

Lots of guys went to Canada. I knew a few. I was just young enough to avoid being drafted, but I can tell you that I have never watched a TV show with more interest than my draft lottery.

My brother was just too young to join the Viet-Nam war. I think the war ended shorty after his 18th B-day. I don't think he would have joined though if a certain memory of me drawing Uncle Sam pointing and saying he wants you and showing off it is any example. He got mad at me. I didn't understand what that was all about.

 

[TWA]

depleted uranium rounds are commonly used by our air power especially AC-130, Apaches, and Warthogs to attack enemy's armored vehicles. I have heard of several news about our American soldiers suffering from it.

It was first used in the 1991 Gulf War and there were reports coming out shorty following that war linking Gulf War Syndrome to DU. Of course the military and government refuses to look into the matter or discontinue the use of DU ordnance.

The European Union has been trying to instill a moratorium on DU use, but continues to be blocked by Britain and France, who claim the health risks are not proven. :roll:

This shit is nasty, but what's nastier is our government's continued used of it even while it destroys the health of its soldiers.

So if the US government really supports its troops, why does it continue to use a munition that is known to wreak havoc on the lives of its soldiers?

 

[airportcop]

do you feel anything for victims too?

Yes jiro,

I feel for the innocent victims as well. It is sad but a fact of life in a war zone. Even sadder is that their own people were willing to place those innocent civilians in harms way to protect their own arses! It is because of our strong military that we have enjoyed and continue to enjoy our freedoms.

 

[airportcop]

depleted uranium rounds are commonly used by our air power especially AC-130, Apaches, and Warthogs to attack enemy's armored vehicles. I have heard of several news about our American soldiers suffering from it.

Guess I have been uninformed about DU? Sounds like our government has tried to keep it quiet. It doesn't surprise me though. Look at agent orange in Vietnam! Look back further than that when they tested radioactive bombs on soldiers on ships from a distance. Our government has been experimenting on innocents for years. It don't think there is really any hope of ever fixing it. It could get better if the two parties wanted to work together and give up their pocket money, but I doubt we'll ever see it.

 

[PowerON]

Agreed. The deaths of the innocent are chalked up as a "cost of war." That is totally absurd. The cost of war is the death of the soldiers hired to fight the war. Millions of innocent lives being lost when no threat was ever even imposed on the invading country is inhuman.

Saddam, behind the plan, is truley mastermind that make American look bad after he lie about they have mass weapon.

 

[dogmom]

I agree with Alex...

and yes, I also think various interests within and outside the government have perpetuated hidden agendas and debacles such as the Agent Orange mess, Tuskegee etc.

The U.S . - while offering much other countries don't - is not the grand benevolent guardian figure that blind patriotism likes to promote

 

[saywhatkid]

My brother was just too young to join the Viet-Nam war. I think the war ended shorty after his 18th B-day. I don't think he would have joined though if a certain memory of me drawing Uncle Sam pointing and saying he wants you and showing off it is any example. He got mad at me. I didn't understand what that was all about.

He is probably similar age to me.

 

[saywhatkid]

Would you have gone?

Glad I didn't have to answer. Realize that I was protesting this war, but raised in military family. There were many heated discussions at dinner table.

 

[rockin'robin]

My brother served several tours over in Viet Nam...so did my ex....and a lot of friends thru the years....Because of the "draft".

My brother, now..is a recluse. I blame the Viet Nam war for that. And the horrible way the American public has treated our Vets.

Now, my son (17) plans to enter the Military after school graduation. Do I worry? Hell yes!...They may say the war is "officially" over with...but some fighting will still go on, and more deaths to come.

 

[airportcop]

My brother served several tours over in Viet Nam...so did my ex....and a lot of friends thru the years....Because of the "draft".

My brother, now..is a recluse. I blame the Viet Nam war for that. And the horrible way the American public has treated our Vets.Now, my son (17) plans to enter the Military after school graduation. Do I worry? Hell yes!...They may say the war is "officially" over with...but some fighting will still go on, and more deaths to come.

RR,

I agree! Ones who never served shouldn't be judging those that have! They don't know their motives and if and when our governement has been wrong then don't blame the soldiers. They are just doing what they are told and giving of themselves for our country.

 

[Beowulf]

Oh cut the demagoguery bullshit. Where did I say I don't appreciate the sacrifices made by American soldiers? I said I don't have sympathy when one dies--any soldier, not just ours. Do I have to cry a river every time someone gets blown up by an IED or pegged with with a an AK-47 round? Oh gee, nothing like that is supposed to happen in war! Give me a break. You can tack on all this honor and protection crap, but soldiers know what they sign up for. They sign up for war. And war is hell. So long as the innocent Iraqi civilians who have died continue to be a footnote in this whole thing, you won't get any sympathy from me. Keep crying your crocodile tears.

And now I will say this: No American soldier has died for my freedom since 1945. Since the end of WWII, all American acts of war have been imperialistic, unjustified, and overly aggressive uses of force meant to further the interests of the military-industrial complex and/or the corporatocracy that supports the global empire of the elite. To believe otherwise is pure ignorance.

Good post. We need more guys like you, and that's the truth.

 

[TWA]

Glad I didn't have to answer. Realize that I was protesting this war, but raised in military family. There were many heated discussions at dinner table.

Check out Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried. It's the best work of fiction about the Vietnam War. Of any war, IMO. There is one story you will particularly identify with: "On the Rainy River."

When I talk to Vietnam Vets who have read the book, this is the one they identify with the most. Tim O'Brien was a Vietnam Vet too, so he knows what he's talking about.

 

[saywhatkid]

Check out Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried. It's the best work of fiction about the Vietnam War. Of any war, IMO. There is one story you will particularly identify with: "On the Rainy River."

If you don't have the book or can't easily locate it, here is an abridged version of the story: On The Rainy RIver

When I talk to Vietnam Vets who have read the book, this is the one they identify with the most. Tim O'Brien was a Vietnam Vet too, so he knows what he's talking about.

I will take a look soon.

It was not a war I wanted to fight in, that much I can tell you. There was no pot of gold to the victor. I knew guys that never returned; they had a plaque of names on the wall of high school. Add to this the fact that they were in negotiations for cease-fire, and that would have made my going to fight a much harder choice. Imagine protesting something for a couple of years, then going across the protest lines, similar to crossing a picket line. No thanks.

 

[TWA]

Yes jiro,

I feel for the innocent victims as well. It is sad but a fact of life in a war zone. Even sadder is that their own people were willing to place those innocent civilians in harms way to protect their own arses! It is because of our strong military that we have enjoyed and continue to enjoy our freedoms.

Your attitude, which is shared by many, is exactly what is wrong with this whole picture. You are perfectly fine justifying the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians as a "sad fact in a war zone," and yet you are deeply saddened and offended by me using the same logic when talking about a far smaller number of American soldiers, the ones who actually make war.

I guess American blood is more precious to you than Iraqi blood? or is it something else . . .


P.S. at the moment, the biggest threat to our freedom and comfortable life IS our military.

 

[Beowulf]

Check out Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried. It's the best work of fiction about the Vietnam War. Of any war, IMO. There is one story you will particularly identify with: "On the Rainy River."

If you don't have the book or can't easily locate it, here is an abridged version of the story: On The Rainy RIver

When I talk to Vietnam Vets who have read the book, this is the one they identify with the most. Tim O'Brien was a Vietnam Vet too, so he knows what he's talking about.

I just read the abridged version, and am not impressed. I will have to read the unedited version.
I know Vietnam vets as well. You can tell them by the quick smiles they give: their eyes remain flat while they smile, you know? I do not ask them to recount their experiences any more, because they turn my stomach. One guy told how he would rape a Vietnamese woman, and at the moment of his climax, he would have a buddy shoot her in the head so he could feel her death quivers. Certainly the guy has changed since then, but the question remains in my mind: has he, really?

 

[TWA]

I just read the abridged version, and am not impressed. I will have to read the unedited version.
I know Vietnam vets as well. You can tell them by the quick smiles they give: their eyes remain flat while they smile, you know? I do not ask them to recount their experiences any more, because they turn my stomach. One guy told how he would rape a Vietnamese woman, and at the moment of his climax, he would have a buddy shoot her in the head so he could feel her death quivers. Certainly the guy has changed since then, but the question remains in my mind: has he, really?

HOLY SHIT. That is . . .

my god.